Poll

Resign?

Re-sign him at a price over $14 mill. He does a lot for the team
20 (14.6%)
Too much money. The Limited offense isn't worth this much
117 (85.4%)

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Author Topic: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]  (Read 63931 times)

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Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1020 on: July 19, 2018, 12:12:21 PM »

Online fairweatherfan

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Remember when we were down late at home to Houston and Marcus Smart spontaneously powered up to unleash a Spirit Dime followed by not one but two Omega Flops?  Good times.  Now we get to see a whole lot more of that through 2022.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=difg1ERWZfU
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 12:33:09 PM by fairweatherfan »

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1021 on: July 19, 2018, 12:12:23 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Any news regarding the structure of the contract? Frontloaded, team/player option, whatever...

In any case, I fully expect us to trade at least one of Morris/Rozier/Yabu. Either during the offseason or close to the trade deadline.

We can't trade Rozier, at least until Kyrie is back in the fold long-term. Smart is not a starter.

Morris and Yabu are expendable however...
Assuming Danny doesn't plan to trade Smart, I fully expect us to trade Rozier.

We cannot keep both Smart and Rozier going forward. Unless we trade Rozier by the deadline, chances are that we 'll lose him for nothing next summer.

I'd say we'll trade Smart before Rozier. Rozier was the starting PG of an ECF team. Smart is a bench role player..
That's true. Thing is, we already have Kyrie doing what Rozier does (obviously, Kyrie >>> Rozier). We have no one doing what Smart does.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1022 on: July 19, 2018, 12:13:32 PM »

Online Fafnir

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Who knows, maybe Danny has a vision of keeping Smart, Irving AND Rozier during our contending years.  Many of us thought Smart would only come back on the QO, and we were wrong.
I think Danny will shop Rozier hard this season once we've seen Kyrie play and be healthy.

He probably won't move him in the end, but he'll shop him hard. (similar to Marcus this season) Then we'll let him walk if Kyrie leaves in FA and he signs a big offer sheet or match his offer sheet (or extend our own) if Kyrie leaves.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1023 on: July 19, 2018, 12:17:28 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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Any news regarding the structure of the contract? Frontloaded, team/player option, whatever...

In any case, I fully expect us to trade at least one of Morris/Rozier/Yabu. Either during the offseason or close to the trade deadline.

We can't trade Rozier, at least until Kyrie is back in the fold long-term. Smart is not a starter.

Morris and Yabu are expendable however...
Assuming Danny doesn't plan to trade Smart, I fully expect us to trade Rozier.

We cannot keep both Smart and Rozier going forward. Unless we trade Rozier by the deadline, chances are that we 'll lose him for nothing next summer.

I'd say we'll trade Smart before Rozier. Rozier was the starting PG of an ECF team. Smart is a bench role player..
That's true. Thing is, we already have Kyrie doing what Rozier does (obviously, Kyrie >>> Rozier). We have no one doing what Smart does.

Meh, they have identical DRtg and Rozier's ORtg is 12 POINTS higher. What does Mighty Marcus provide that Rozier doesn't?

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1024 on: July 19, 2018, 12:18:35 PM »

Online Fafnir

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I want to say I donít think Smart is a horrific offensive player.  Aside from his terrible shooting he actually pretty good at running an offense, and driving into the lane and making some nice passes.  Better than Rozier in this area IMO.  Smart and Rozier I think compliment each other well with their strengths and weaknesses.

IDK I keep hearing that but any objective measure you look at says Smart is simply a terrible, terrible offensive player. I guess there's some immeasurables the team sees somewhere, I just can't find it..
Is points scored objective? The team's offense functioned better this year when he was on the court rather than off it.

Hmmm, where is this? I am looking at an ORtg of 109 for Rozier, 97 for Smart. My god that is bad..
On/Off 108 On 107 Off this year for the C's

Which is distinct from ORtg. BTW ORtg on the player pages is not the same thing as the team ORtg despite the same acronym..

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

Team Offensive Rating is possesion/pace normalized scoring. Individual Offensive Rating is a complicated estimate off of box score components and team numbers trying to grade a single players offensive contribution. Its rather similar to PER in that manner, though it weights things differently of course.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1025 on: July 19, 2018, 12:19:31 PM »

Online Fafnir

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Meh, they have identical DRtg and Rozier's ORtg is 12 POINTS higher. What does Mighty Marcus provide that Rozier doesn't?
I suggest you look up what ORtg/DRtg on basketball reference actually are.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html
Quote
Out of necessity (owing to a lack of defensive data in the basic boxscore), individual Defensive Ratings are heavily influenced by the team's defensive efficiency. They assume that all teammates are equally good (per minute) at forcing non-steal turnovers and non-block misses, as well as assuming that all teammates face the same number of total possessions per minute.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1026 on: July 19, 2018, 12:24:16 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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Meh, they have identical DRtg and Rozier's ORtg is 12 POINTS higher. What does Mighty Marcus provide that Rozier doesn't?
I suggest you look up what ORtg/DRtg on basketball reference actually are.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html
Quote
Out of necessity (owing to a lack of defensive data in the basic boxscore), individual Defensive Ratings are heavily influenced by the team's defensive efficiency. They assume that all teammates are equally good (per minute) at forcing non-steal turnovers and non-block misses, as well as assuming that all teammates face the same number of total possessions per minute.

So? You're automatically assuming Marcus is better at all those things which seems pretty unsafe to me.

And we're saying even though Marcus has one of the worst offensive ratings in the league the offense is somehow BETTER when he's playing? How in the world does this happen?

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1027 on: July 19, 2018, 12:25:45 PM »

Online Fafnir

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And we're saying even though Marcus has one of the worst offensive ratings in the league the offense is somehow BETTER when he's playing? How in the world does this happen?
I am not saying it, it literally happened last year. When Marcus Smart was on the floor the Celtics offense was more efficient than it was when he was off the court.

This also occurred during the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2018/on-off/

Now raw on/off numbers are tricky, but they do indicate that Marcus wasn't some disaster for the C's offense as you believe.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1028 on: July 19, 2018, 12:26:47 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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And we're saying even though Marcus has one of the worst offensive ratings in the league the offense is somehow BETTER when he's playing? How in the world does this happen?
I am not saying it, it literally happened last year. When Marcus Smart was on the floor the Celtics offense was more efficient than it was when he was off the court.

This also occurred during the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2018/on-off/

Simply astounding..

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1029 on: July 19, 2018, 12:28:57 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Any news regarding the structure of the contract? Frontloaded, team/player option, whatever...

In any case, I fully expect us to trade at least one of Morris/Rozier/Yabu. Either during the offseason or close to the trade deadline.

We can't trade Rozier, at least until Kyrie is back in the fold long-term. Smart is not a starter.

Morris and Yabu are expendable however...
Assuming Danny doesn't plan to trade Smart, I fully expect us to trade Rozier.

We cannot keep both Smart and Rozier going forward. Unless we trade Rozier by the deadline, chances are that we 'll lose him for nothing next summer.

I'd say we'll trade Smart before Rozier. Rozier was the starting PG of an ECF team. Smart is a bench role player..
That's true. Thing is, we already have Kyrie doing what Rozier does (obviously, Kyrie >>> Rozier). We have no one doing what Smart does.

Meh, they have identical DRtg and Rozier's ORtg is 12 POINTS higher. What does Mighty Marcus provide that Rozier doesn't?
Well, for starters, Smart can defend 4 positions (if not 5 against small ball centers). Rozier is a very good on-ball defender and that's about it.

The way I see it, Smart is probably the best PG in the NBA when it comes to switching on defense.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1030 on: July 19, 2018, 12:31:22 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Who knows, maybe Danny has a vision of keeping Smart, Irving AND Rozier during our contending years.  Many of us thought Smart would only come back on the QO, and we were wrong.
I think Danny will shop Rozier hard this season once we've seen Kyrie play and be healthy.

He probably won't move him in the end, but he'll shop him hard. (similar to Marcus this season) Then we'll let him walk if Kyrie leaves in FA and he signs a big offer sheet or match his offer sheet (or extend our own) if Kyrie leaves.

I donít expect much shopping of Rozier, not without a huge asking price.  Heís a cheap but high-quality reserve on a tax-level championship-caliber team.  At the same time, heís a restricted free agent which means he offers Kyrie-protection in free agency.  The team is set up to take a real shot at a title ó you donít move Rozier if it doesnít get you closer this year, or the future value is that substantial.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1031 on: July 19, 2018, 12:33:00 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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Kyrie still does up quite a bit defensively..

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1032 on: July 19, 2018, 12:35:16 PM »

Online Fafnir

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Who knows, maybe Danny has a vision of keeping Smart, Irving AND Rozier during our contending years.  Many of us thought Smart would only come back on the QO, and we were wrong.
I think Danny will shop Rozier hard this season once we've seen Kyrie play and be healthy.

He probably won't move him in the end, but he'll shop him hard. (similar to Marcus this season) Then we'll let him walk if Kyrie leaves in FA and he signs a big offer sheet or match his offer sheet (or extend our own) if Kyrie leaves.

I donít expect much shopping of Rozier, not without a huge asking price. 
Oh I expect Danny's ask to be huge, and for nothing to get done. But he'll be kicking the tires and Rozier and Picks are really the only things that seem movable at this point. Tatum/Brown seem untouchable, Kryie is expiring and they want to contend, same with Al.

I guess Hayward/Smart could also be talked about mid season....

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1033 on: July 19, 2018, 12:36:44 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Who knows, maybe Danny has a vision of keeping Smart, Irving AND Rozier during our contending years.  Many of us thought Smart would only come back on the QO, and we were wrong.
I think Danny will shop Rozier hard this season once we've seen Kyrie play and be healthy.

He probably won't move him in the end, but he'll shop him hard. (similar to Marcus this season) Then we'll let him walk if Kyrie leaves in FA and he signs a big offer sheet or match his offer sheet (or extend our own) if Kyrie leaves.

I donít expect much shopping of Rozier, not without a huge asking price. 
Oh I expect Danny's ask to be huge, and for nothing to get done. But he'll be kicking the tires and Rozier and Picks are really the only things that seem movable at this point. Tatum/Brown seem untouchable, Kryie is expiring and they want to contend, same with Al.

I guess Hayward/Smart could also be talked about mid season....

I think by mid season people here will stop suggesting Hayward when they see how well he works with this team.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1034 on: July 19, 2018, 12:38:41 PM »

Online Fafnir

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I think by mid season people here will stop suggesting Hayward when they see how well he works with this team.
I certainly hope so. I don't expect him to be even mentioned myself. Just was working through the contracts that matter that could be traded.

 

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