Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread

[celticsclay]

Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.

Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.

Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well.

Butler would hate being on the Kings with all those young players.  Why would Minny want WCS and Skal?  They need a PG or wing.

Yeah, really unsure why Sacramento would even try. Unless they offer Fox and maybe Hield, they are definitely not getting Butler

Don't forget that the Kings are really, really, stupid. Derailing a rebuild in the name of "creating excitement" is exactly what idiotic organizations do.

I'm not really sure the trade I proposed derails a rebuild since the Kings don't own their pick this year anyway.  And having a guy like Butler might actually help their young guards develop.

Edit: Slamtheking beat me to the punch for most of this 


Except Butler doesn't have a great track record of working with young guys. Really the opposite. IMO he would quickly get frustrated and become toxic. Then he leaves in the offseason for nothing.

And even if he stays he is likely washed up before the young guys are good enough to contend. There are cheaper, "good locker room guy" vets out there that can provide arguably far more stability at no cost of picks or young talent.

Butler got along fine with the young guys in Chicago, it was the old vets (Rose, Noah, Wade, and Rondo) that were coasting and not putting in the work that angered Butler and caused a lot of the tension he had there.

I don't think you have that quite right. Rondo and Butler were definitely on opposite sides. But so were Rondo and Wade. Rondo was also definitely on the side of the young guys (they've even vouched for him since his time in chicago). So I'm pretty sure Butler, Wade and the old guys were against the young guys and Rondo.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/02/01/young-bulls-rave-about-rajon-rondo-as-a-teammate/

Butler was against the young guys including Mirotic (then 24) Grant (then 23) and Rondo stood up for them. Butler has had issues with young players in both his stops now.

It was MCW not Grant (the same MCW that can't stay on a team and the same Mirotic that got sucker-punched at practice and then was the player shipped away).  And again it is all about effort with Butler.  He will clash with players that don't provide maximum effort.  Whether they are young or old doesn't matter. 

And don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that is a good character trait, especially from someone that is supposed to be your leader, but it is a character trait that many great players have had.  Jordan, for example, was notoriously hard on teammates that didn't give it their all.  That is what has made Butler so great, but it is also what has caused tension in several different locker-rooms.  Maybe he will always be a problem.  Maybe he will soften up a bit.  Maybe he will find a team that has players that work as hard as him.  Who knows.

From what Rondo said, it's not true. He said the young guys put in work, and its the leadership that's the problem.

and yet, MCW can't hold a job despite winning ROY and Mirotic got shipped out after HE was sucker punched.  That seems very strange if Butler was the problem and not those two.

MCW is just not that good. Not every bad player has an work/attitude problem.

I agree. The fact that MCW keeps getting chances despite being a fringe NBA player shows he is a good teammate. If a player that is a backup at best is a bad teammate he gets out of the league pretty quick. Not sure why why people are bending over backwards to act like Butler hasn't had issues with multiple young teammates, it's pretty clear he has.

[rondofan1255]

Was listening last night to a former Sacramento sbnation blogger (now covers mavs) who mentioned how Joerger always says the right things about playing young guys more...and then he reverts back to playing vets instead of developing young players

[greece66]

Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.

Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.

Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well.

Butler would hate being on the Kings with all those young players.  Why would Minny want WCS and Skal?  They need a PG or wing.

Yeah, really unsure why Sacramento would even try. Unless they offer Fox and maybe Hield, they are definitely not getting Butler

Don't forget that the Kings are really, really, stupid. Derailing a rebuild in the name of "creating excitement" is exactly what idiotic organizations do.

I'm not really sure the trade I proposed derails a rebuild since the Kings don't own their pick this year anyway.  And having a guy like Butler might actually help their young guards develop.

Edit: Slamtheking beat me to the punch for most of this 


Except Butler doesn't have a great track record of working with young guys. Really the opposite. IMO he would quickly get frustrated and become toxic. Then he leaves in the offseason for nothing.

And even if he stays he is likely washed up before the young guys are good enough to contend. There are cheaper, "good locker room guy" vets out there that can provide arguably far more stability at no cost of picks or young talent.

Butler got along fine with the young guys in Chicago, it was the old vets (Rose, Noah, Wade, and Rondo) that were coasting and not putting in the work that angered Butler and caused a lot of the tension he had there.

I don't think you have that quite right. Rondo and Butler were definitely on opposite sides. But so were Rondo and Wade. Rondo was also definitely on the side of the young guys (they've even vouched for him since his time in chicago). So I'm pretty sure Butler, Wade and the old guys were against the young guys and Rondo.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/02/01/young-bulls-rave-about-rajon-rondo-as-a-teammate/

Butler was against the young guys including Mirotic (then 24) Grant (then 23) and Rondo stood up for them. Butler has had issues with young players in both his stops now.

It was MCW not Grant (the same MCW that can't stay on a team and the same Mirotic that got sucker-punched at practice and then was the player shipped away).  And again it is all about effort with Butler.  He will clash with players that don't provide maximum effort.  Whether they are young or old doesn't matter. 

And don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that is a good character trait, especially from someone that is supposed to be your leader, but it is a character trait that many great players have had.  Jordan, for example, was notoriously hard on teammates that didn't give it their all.  That is what has made Butler so great, but it is also what has caused tension in several different locker-rooms.  Maybe he will always be a problem.  Maybe he will soften up a bit.  Maybe he will find a team that has players that work as hard as him.  Who knows.

From what Rondo said, it's not true. He said the young guys put in work, and its the leadership that's the problem.

and yet, MCW can't hold a job despite winning ROY and Mirotic got shipped out after HE was sucker punched.  That seems very strange if Butler was the problem and not those two.

MCW is simply not good a player. As for Mirotic, I don't see how getting punched has anything to do with his work ethic.

[gouki88]

Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.

Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.

Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well.

Butler would hate being on the Kings with all those young players.  Why would Minny want WCS and Skal?  They need a PG or wing.

Yeah, really unsure why Sacramento would even try. Unless they offer Fox and maybe Hield, they are definitely not getting Butler

Don't forget that the Kings are really, really, stupid. Derailing a rebuild in the name of "creating excitement" is exactly what idiotic organizations do.

I'm not really sure the trade I proposed derails a rebuild since the Kings don't own their pick this year anyway.  And having a guy like Butler might actually help their young guards develop.

Edit: Slamtheking beat me to the punch for most of this 


Except Butler doesn't have a great track record of working with young guys. Really the opposite. IMO he would quickly get frustrated and become toxic. Then he leaves in the offseason for nothing.

And even if he stays he is likely washed up before the young guys are good enough to contend. There are cheaper, "good locker room guy" vets out there that can provide arguably far more stability at no cost of picks or young talent.

Butler got along fine with the young guys in Chicago, it was the old vets (Rose, Noah, Wade, and Rondo) that were coasting and not putting in the work that angered Butler and caused a lot of the tension he had there.

I don't think you have that quite right. Rondo and Butler were definitely on opposite sides. But so were Rondo and Wade. Rondo was also definitely on the side of the young guys (they've even vouched for him since his time in chicago). So I'm pretty sure Butler, Wade and the old guys were against the young guys and Rondo.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/02/01/young-bulls-rave-about-rajon-rondo-as-a-teammate/

Butler was against the young guys including Mirotic (then 24) Grant (then 23) and Rondo stood up for them. Butler has had issues with young players in both his stops now.

It was MCW not Grant (the same MCW that can't stay on a team and the same Mirotic that got sucker-punched at practice and then was the player shipped away).  And again it is all about effort with Butler.  He will clash with players that don't provide maximum effort.  Whether they are young or old doesn't matter. 

And don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that is a good character trait, especially from someone that is supposed to be your leader, but it is a character trait that many great players have had.  Jordan, for example, was notoriously hard on teammates that didn't give it their all.  That is what has made Butler so great, but it is also what has caused tension in several different locker-rooms.  Maybe he will always be a problem.  Maybe he will soften up a bit.  Maybe he will find a team that has players that work as hard as him.  Who knows.

From what Rondo said, it's not true. He said the young guys put in work, and its the leadership that's the problem.

and yet, MCW can't hold a job despite winning ROY and Mirotic got shipped out after HE was sucker punched.  That seems very strange if Butler was the problem and not those two.

MCW is simply not good a player. As for Mirotic, I don't see how getting punched has anything to do with his work ethic.

It doesn't. Not even remotely, lol. But Moranis wants it to fit the weird agenda he's pushing

[Moranis]

Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.

Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.

Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well.

Butler would hate being on the Kings with all those young players.  Why would Minny want WCS and Skal?  They need a PG or wing.

Yeah, really unsure why Sacramento would even try. Unless they offer Fox and maybe Hield, they are definitely not getting Butler

Don't forget that the Kings are really, really, stupid. Derailing a rebuild in the name of "creating excitement" is exactly what idiotic organizations do.

I'm not really sure the trade I proposed derails a rebuild since the Kings don't own their pick this year anyway.  And having a guy like Butler might actually help their young guards develop.

Edit: Slamtheking beat me to the punch for most of this 


Except Butler doesn't have a great track record of working with young guys. Really the opposite. IMO he would quickly get frustrated and become toxic. Then he leaves in the offseason for nothing.

And even if he stays he is likely washed up before the young guys are good enough to contend. There are cheaper, "good locker room guy" vets out there that can provide arguably far more stability at no cost of picks or young talent.

Butler got along fine with the young guys in Chicago, it was the old vets (Rose, Noah, Wade, and Rondo) that were coasting and not putting in the work that angered Butler and caused a lot of the tension he had there.

I don't think you have that quite right. Rondo and Butler were definitely on opposite sides. But so were Rondo and Wade. Rondo was also definitely on the side of the young guys (they've even vouched for him since his time in chicago). So I'm pretty sure Butler, Wade and the old guys were against the young guys and Rondo.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/02/01/young-bulls-rave-about-rajon-rondo-as-a-teammate/

Butler was against the young guys including Mirotic (then 24) Grant (then 23) and Rondo stood up for them. Butler has had issues with young players in both his stops now.

It was MCW not Grant (the same MCW that can't stay on a team and the same Mirotic that got sucker-punched at practice and then was the player shipped away).  And again it is all about effort with Butler.  He will clash with players that don't provide maximum effort.  Whether they are young or old doesn't matter. 

And don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that is a good character trait, especially from someone that is supposed to be your leader, but it is a character trait that many great players have had.  Jordan, for example, was notoriously hard on teammates that didn't give it their all.  That is what has made Butler so great, but it is also what has caused tension in several different locker-rooms.  Maybe he will always be a problem.  Maybe he will soften up a bit.  Maybe he will find a team that has players that work as hard as him.  Who knows.

From what Rondo said, it's not true. He said the young guys put in work, and its the leadership that's the problem.

and yet, MCW can't hold a job despite winning ROY and Mirotic got shipped out after HE was sucker punched.  That seems very strange if Butler was the problem and not those two.

MCW is simply not good a player. As for Mirotic, I don't see how getting punched has anything to do with his work ethic.

my point was the Bulls chose Portis over Mirotic, despite Portis being a lesser player and the aggressor.  There has to be something else going on for that to be the Bulls choice.  I have no idea what that something is, but there was something there, which certainly could be work ethic problems which may in fact be why he allegedly clashed with Butler.

[celticsclay]

Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.

Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.

Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well.

Butler would hate being on the Kings with all those young players.  Why would Minny want WCS and Skal?  They need a PG or wing.

Yeah, really unsure why Sacramento would even try. Unless they offer Fox and maybe Hield, they are definitely not getting Butler

Don't forget that the Kings are really, really, stupid. Derailing a rebuild in the name of "creating excitement" is exactly what idiotic organizations do.

I'm not really sure the trade I proposed derails a rebuild since the Kings don't own their pick this year anyway.  And having a guy like Butler might actually help their young guards develop.

Edit: Slamtheking beat me to the punch for most of this 


Except Butler doesn't have a great track record of working with young guys. Really the opposite. IMO he would quickly get frustrated and become toxic. Then he leaves in the offseason for nothing.

And even if he stays he is likely washed up before the young guys are good enough to contend. There are cheaper, "good locker room guy" vets out there that can provide arguably far more stability at no cost of picks or young talent.

Butler got along fine with the young guys in Chicago, it was the old vets (Rose, Noah, Wade, and Rondo) that were coasting and not putting in the work that angered Butler and caused a lot of the tension he had there.

I don't think you have that quite right. Rondo and Butler were definitely on opposite sides. But so were Rondo and Wade. Rondo was also definitely on the side of the young guys (they've even vouched for him since his time in chicago). So I'm pretty sure Butler, Wade and the old guys were against the young guys and Rondo.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/02/01/young-bulls-rave-about-rajon-rondo-as-a-teammate/

Butler was against the young guys including Mirotic (then 24) Grant (then 23) and Rondo stood up for them. Butler has had issues with young players in both his stops now.

It was MCW not Grant (the same MCW that can't stay on a team and the same Mirotic that got sucker-punched at practice and then was the player shipped away).  And again it is all about effort with Butler.  He will clash with players that don't provide maximum effort.  Whether they are young or old doesn't matter. 

And don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that is a good character trait, especially from someone that is supposed to be your leader, but it is a character trait that many great players have had.  Jordan, for example, was notoriously hard on teammates that didn't give it their all.  That is what has made Butler so great, but it is also what has caused tension in several different locker-rooms.  Maybe he will always be a problem.  Maybe he will soften up a bit.  Maybe he will find a team that has players that work as hard as him.  Who knows.

From what Rondo said, it's not true. He said the young guys put in work, and its the leadership that's the problem.

and yet, MCW can't hold a job despite winning ROY and Mirotic got shipped out after HE was sucker punched.  That seems very strange if Butler was the problem and not those two.

MCW is simply not good a player. As for Mirotic, I don't see how getting punched has anything to do with his work ethic.

my point was the Bulls chose Portis over Mirotic, despite Portis being a lesser player and the aggressor.  There has to be something else going on for that to be the Bulls choice.  I have no idea what that something is, but there was something there, which certainly could be work ethic problems which may in fact be why he allegedly clashed with Butler.

What do you mean they chose Portis? Mirotic was helping them win too many games so they had to trade him to help their tank. Why does this have to part of some larger agenda or conspiracy? This seems pretty straight forward.

[green_bballers13]

Mirotic is 27 and Portis is 23. Chicago is rebuilding. I think its that simple.

[gouki88]

Mirotic is 27 and Portis is 23. Chicago is rebuilding. I think its that simple.

There must be a hidden meaning behind this all!
/sarcasm

[KGs Knee]

Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.

Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.

Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well.

Butler would hate being on the Kings with all those young players.  Why would Minny want WCS and Skal?  They need a PG or wing.

Yeah, really unsure why Sacramento would even try. Unless they offer Fox and maybe Hield, they are definitely not getting Butler

Don't forget that the Kings are really, really, stupid. Derailing a rebuild in the name of "creating excitement" is exactly what idiotic organizations do.

I'm not really sure the trade I proposed derails a rebuild since the Kings don't own their pick this year anyway.  And having a guy like Butler might actually help their young guards develop.

Edit: Slamtheking beat me to the punch for most of this 


Except Butler doesn't have a great track record of working with young guys. Really the opposite. IMO he would quickly get frustrated and become toxic. Then he leaves in the offseason for nothing.

And even if he stays he is likely washed up before the young guys are good enough to contend. There are cheaper, "good locker room guy" vets out there that can provide arguably far more stability at no cost of picks or young talent.

Butler got along fine with the young guys in Chicago, it was the old vets (Rose, Noah, Wade, and Rondo) that were coasting and not putting in the work that angered Butler and caused a lot of the tension he had there.

I don't think you have that quite right. Rondo and Butler were definitely on opposite sides. But so were Rondo and Wade. Rondo was also definitely on the side of the young guys (they've even vouched for him since his time in chicago). So I'm pretty sure Butler, Wade and the old guys were against the young guys and Rondo.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/02/01/young-bulls-rave-about-rajon-rondo-as-a-teammate/

Butler was against the young guys including Mirotic (then 24) Grant (then 23) and Rondo stood up for them. Butler has had issues with young players in both his stops now.

It was MCW not Grant (the same MCW that can't stay on a team and the same Mirotic that got sucker-punched at practice and then was the player shipped away).  And again it is all about effort with Butler.  He will clash with players that don't provide maximum effort.  Whether they are young or old doesn't matter. 

And don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that is a good character trait, especially from someone that is supposed to be your leader, but it is a character trait that many great players have had.  Jordan, for example, was notoriously hard on teammates that didn't give it their all.  That is what has made Butler so great, but it is also what has caused tension in several different locker-rooms.  Maybe he will always be a problem.  Maybe he will soften up a bit.  Maybe he will find a team that has players that work as hard as him.  Who knows.

From what Rondo said, it's not true. He said the young guys put in work, and its the leadership that's the problem.

and yet, MCW can't hold a job despite winning ROY and Mirotic got shipped out after HE was sucker punched.  That seems very strange if Butler was the problem and not those two.

MCW is simply not good a player. As for Mirotic, I don't see how getting punched has anything to do with his work ethic.

my point was the Bulls chose Portis over Mirotic, despite Portis being a lesser player and the aggressor.  There has to be something else going on for that to be the Bulls choice.  I have no idea what that something is, but there was something there, which certainly could be work ethic problems which may in fact be why he allegedly clashed with Butler.

What do you mean they chose Portis? Mirotic was helping them win too many games so they had to trade him to help their tank. Why does this have to part of some larger agenda or conspiracy? This seems pretty straight forward.

This, and also, Chicago likely figured it would better serve their rebuild to get assets for Mirotic when they did, while his value was 'up'.

Mirotic was not traded because he had a poor work ethic or was a problem in the lockeroom, there's no evidence to make that claim.  He was traded because it best served the long term goals of the team.

[tazzmaniac]

Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.

Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.

Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well.

Butler would hate being on the Kings with all those young players.  Why would Minny want WCS and Skal?  They need a PG or wing.

Yeah, really unsure why Sacramento would even try. Unless they offer Fox and maybe Hield, they are definitely not getting Butler

Don't forget that the Kings are really, really, stupid. Derailing a rebuild in the name of "creating excitement" is exactly what idiotic organizations do.

I'm not really sure the trade I proposed derails a rebuild since the Kings don't own their pick this year anyway.  And having a guy like Butler might actually help their young guards develop.

Edit: Slamtheking beat me to the punch for most of this 


Except Butler doesn't have a great track record of working with young guys. Really the opposite. IMO he would quickly get frustrated and become toxic. Then he leaves in the offseason for nothing.

And even if he stays he is likely washed up before the young guys are good enough to contend. There are cheaper, "good locker room guy" vets out there that can provide arguably far more stability at no cost of picks or young talent.

Butler got along fine with the young guys in Chicago, it was the old vets (Rose, Noah, Wade, and Rondo) that were coasting and not putting in the work that angered Butler and caused a lot of the tension he had there.

I don't think you have that quite right. Rondo and Butler were definitely on opposite sides. But so were Rondo and Wade. Rondo was also definitely on the side of the young guys (they've even vouched for him since his time in chicago). So I'm pretty sure Butler, Wade and the old guys were against the young guys and Rondo.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/02/01/young-bulls-rave-about-rajon-rondo-as-a-teammate/

Butler was against the young guys including Mirotic (then 24) Grant (then 23) and Rondo stood up for them. Butler has had issues with young players in both his stops now.

It was MCW not Grant (the same MCW that can't stay on a team and the same Mirotic that got sucker-punched at practice and then was the player shipped away).  And again it is all about effort with Butler.  He will clash with players that don't provide maximum effort.  Whether they are young or old doesn't matter. 

And don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that is a good character trait, especially from someone that is supposed to be your leader, but it is a character trait that many great players have had.  Jordan, for example, was notoriously hard on teammates that didn't give it their all.  That is what has made Butler so great, but it is also what has caused tension in several different locker-rooms.  Maybe he will always be a problem.  Maybe he will soften up a bit.  Maybe he will find a team that has players that work as hard as him.  Who knows.

From what Rondo said, it's not true. He said the young guys put in work, and its the leadership that's the problem.

and yet, MCW can't hold a job despite winning ROY and Mirotic got shipped out after HE was sucker punched.  That seems very strange if Butler was the problem and not those two.

MCW is simply not good a player. As for Mirotic, I don't see how getting punched has anything to do with his work ethic.

my point was the Bulls chose Portis over Mirotic, despite Portis being a lesser player and the aggressor.  There has to be something else going on for that to be the Bulls choice.  I have no idea what that something is, but there was something there, which certainly could be work ethic problems which may in fact be why he allegedly clashed with Butler.

What do you mean they chose Portis? Mirotic was helping them win too many games so they had to trade him to help their tank. Why does this have to part of some larger agenda or conspiracy? This seems pretty straight forward.

This, and also, Chicago likely figured it would better serve their rebuild to get assets for Mirotic when they did, while his value was 'up'.

Mirotic was not traded because he had a poor work ethic or was a problem in the lockeroom, there's no evidence to make that claim.  He was traded because it best served the long term goals of the team.

They also received a protected 1st for Mirotic.  No way Portis gets them a 1st. 

[Emmette Bryant]

 first preseason game!

https://sports.yahoo.com/three-takeaways-kings-106-102-051954318.html?src=rss

[GreenShooter]

first preseason game!

https://sports.yahoo.com/three-takeaways-kings-106-102-051954318.html?src=rss

Good to see Harry Giles healthy. Not sure he'll hold up. Those knees could go at any time. I wish him good luck as far as health goes. Just hope they lose about 60 games.

Edit: Josh Jackson looks so weird without his hair. I'm glad we didn't draft him.

[moiso]

first preseason game!

https://sports.yahoo.com/three-takeaways-kings-106-102-051954318.html?src=rss

Good to see Harry Giles healthy. Not sure he'll hold up. Those knees could go at any time. I wish him good luck as far as health goes. Just hope they lose about 60 games.

Edit: Josh Jackson looks so weird without his hair. I'm glad we didn't draft him.

We can’t be having any weird looking players😛.  I’m glad we took Tatum but I like Jackson and think he will be pretty good.

[Sideshow Mel]

Yes, it's a meaningless preseason game, but the Kings are down 51-19 mid-way through the second. Man, they look bad.

[gouki88]

Yes, it's a meaningless preseason game, but the Kings are down 51-19 mid-way through the second. Man, they look bad.

I'm usually one for dismissing most preseason results, but 30 points in nearly a half of a game is hilarious.

Give us that #2 pick baby!