This team is a better version of the 2013 Pacers

[DefenseWinsChamps]

And this year's Cavs is a worse version of the 2013 Miami Heat. Why can't the Cs win the series?

Both the Pacers and the Cs had/have elite defenses.
Both rosters are built remarkably similarly.

Al Horford = David West
Aron Baynes < Roy Hibbert
Jayson Tatum = Paul George
Terry Rozier > George Hill
Jaylen Brown > Lance Stephenson
Marcus Morris > Tyler Hansborough
Marcus Smart > DJ Augustine
Semi Ojeleye > Sam Young
Greg Monroe > Ian Mahinmi

Now for the Cavs
Lebron = Lebron
Love < Bosh
Smith < Wade
Thompson < Anderson
Korver = Allen
Hill > Cole
Hood = Miller
Clarkson = Chalmers
Green = Battier
Nance = Haslem

[gouki88]

Jayson Tatum = PG? Really?

PG was an All-Star who averaged 17.4/7.6/4.1 over the season, and upped his scoring and passing (with a dip in rebounding) in the series against Miami. I love JT, but he isn't on the level PG was as a defender or rebounder in that year.

Agree with all your other analysis though. Also think the coaching differences (Stevens > Vogel, Spo > Lue) is a big factor

[arctic 3.0]

I cringe at the Jaylen-Lance comp.
Mental makeup is sooooo important.

[Roy H.]

Although the two team both led the NBA in defense, the Pacers’ defense was quite a bit better.  That’s a big factor.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Nitpickers gotta nitpick. Comparisons can't ever be exact, but there are similarities.

Tatum is probably a better scorer and shooter than George was in that season, but George was a better defender a passer. However, their games and impact are very similar.

I compared Brown to Stephenson because Stephenson was the next best player on the team and had a legit two-way impact. I think Brown is clearly better than Stephenson was in that season and has a better mental approach.

And I don't necessarily agree that the Pacers were clearly a better defense. I think the Rozier-Brown-Tatum-Smart-Morris-Ojeleye guards and wings are better than the George-Stephenson-Young-Augustine-Hill guards and wings. I think Horford is a better defender than West (although West was always underrated in this area). The advantage the Pacers had was that Roy Hibbert was playing at the height of powers. He was a better team defender in that series than we could hope Baynes would be.

I realize the DRTG for the Pacers was better than the Cs this year, but I think a lot of that can be attributed to offensive pace (and I realize that DRTG is based on a per 100 possessions). When a team slows the game down and plods through their offensive possessions against you, it limits your fast break opportunities, which would in turn would limit your scoring efficiency per possession, which would make the plodding team's DRTG look better.

It's pretty obvious that the Cs have the advantage on offense and in coaching. There are also advantages in the number of players who can guard Lebron, versatility, and ability to go on offensive runs.

[gouki88]

Nitpickers gotta nitpick. Comparisons can't ever be exact, but there are similarities.

Tatum is probably a better scorer and shooter than George was in that season, but George was a better defender a passer. However, their games and impact are very similar.

I compared Brown to Stephenson because Stephenson was the next best player on the team and had a legit two-way impact. I think Brown is clearly better than Stephenson was in that season and has a better mental approach.

And I don't necessarily agree that the Pacers were clearly a better defense. I think the Rozier-Brown-Tatum-Smart-Morris-Ojeleye guards and wings are better than the George-Stephenson-Young-Augustine-Hill guards and wings. I think Horford is a better defender than West (although West was always underrated in this area). The advantage the Pacers had was that Roy Hibbert was playing at the height of powers. He was a better team defender in that series than we could hope Baynes would be.

I realize the DRTG for the Pacers was better than the Cs this year, but I think a lot of that can be attributed to offensive pace (and I realize that DRTG is based on a per 100 possessions). When a team slows the game down and plods through their offensive possessions against you, it limits your fast break opportunities, which would in turn would limit your scoring efficiency per possession, which would make the plodding team's DRTG look better.

It's pretty obvious that the Cs have the advantage on offense and in coaching. There are also advantages in the number of players who can guard Lebron, versatility, and ability to go on offensive runs.

Especially true when you consider the fact that Tatum's 3PT% has been down these playoffs.

As long as we stay level headed (and have nobody choke like PG did in Game 7), I reckon we could win this.

[Roy H.]

And I don't necessarily agree that the Pacers were clearly a better defense.

Feel free to disagree, but those Pacers had a fairly significant advantage in points allowed per 100 possessions.  These Celtics give up roughly 4 more points per 100 possessions than those Pacers. This year, that would have been about the difference between the #1 defense and the #12 defense (the Lakers).

Pace doesn’t really make a difference, especially not one that significant. That’s why you use pace-adjusted stats in the first place. Thus, why a team like Philly can be both top-5 in pace and defensive efficiency.

[Moranis]

Since when is Rozier better than Hill.  That is just nonsense. And Tatum = George. More nonsense

[gouki88]

Since when is Rozier better than Hill.  That is just nonsense. And Tatum = George. More nonsense

Rozier this postseason has unequivocally been better than Hill was that year though.

[PhoSita]

Since when is Rozier better than Hill.  That is just nonsense. And Tatum = George. More nonsense

It's really not that big a difference.  George grabbed more boards and had a bit more of a playmaking role, but also lots of turnovers.




Rozier much better.



Also, Al Horford is WAYYYYYYYYY better than David West.  WAY, WAY better.

[PhoSita]

And I don't necessarily agree that the Pacers were clearly a better defense.

Feel free to disagree, but those Pacers had a fairly significant advantage in points allowed per 100 possessions.  These Celtics give up roughly 4 more points per 100 possessions than those Pacers. This year, that would have been about the difference between the #1 defense and the #12 defense (the Lakers).

Pace doesn’t really make a difference, especially not one that significant. That’s why you use pace-adjusted stats in the first place. Thus, why a team like Philly can be both top-5 in pace and defensive efficiency.

How many threes were their opponents taking back then compared to Celts opponents today?

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Since when is Rozier better than Hill.  That is just nonsense. And Tatum = George. More nonsense

Rozier has been statistically better than Hill that year.

And Tatum has been statistically comparable to George

[DefenseWinsChamps]

And I don't necessarily agree that the Pacers were clearly a better defense.

Feel free to disagree, but those Pacers had a fairly significant advantage in points allowed per 100 possessions.  These Celtics give up roughly 4 more points per 100 possessions than those Pacers. This year, that would have been about the difference between the #1 defense and the #12 defense (the Lakers).

Pace doesn’t really make a difference, especially not one that significant. That’s why you use pace-adjusted stats in the first place. Thus, why a team like Philly can be both top-5 in pace and defensive efficiency.

I understand. The point I was trying to make is that pace has a significant and sometime unquantifiable effect on the rest of the numbers, include DRTG.

[Phantom255x]

I love Tatum, but what's with folks saying he's ALREADY at or even better than the likes of George and Hayward? Really??!?!

Boy people on here and in the media really underrate George and Hayward. Not saying they are transcendental superstars, but they are still proven all-stars who can consistently score 22-24 PPG and are pretty good at defense too. Lets cool it down a bit, okay?

[KGs Knee]

This is a strange comparison to me. The two teams played very different styles and had quite a bit different roster composition. That Indy team had far more veterans playing important roles. Also, Paul George is easily the best player from either of these two teams. Tatum eventually probably tops out as a better player, but rookie Tatum isn't on PG's level from that season.