SI: Who has the better future

[seancally]

Ceiling: A lot of the debate is based on the idea that Simmons and Embiid have the highest ceilings. OK, I want to deconstruct that. What are the absolute highest possible ceilings of each young stud? For Embiid it's gotta be Hakeem the Dream and for Simmons it could be Lebron. Tatum could be Durant, Brown might be Kawhi or even D-Wade. We're talking absolute best case scenario. Then the question is, what's the likelihood of each happening? Frankly, I think Tatum has a higher chance of turning into Durant than Simmons/Embiid do of reaching those lofty heights.

I agree that a lot of this debate has to do with ceiling, I think our young guys have alot of it. The 76ers guys get a lot of love because they are closer to that ceiling right now, which in some ways makes it more projectable. Tatum and Brown are solid starter level, maybe better players. Embiid and Simmons are All NBA, and borderline All NBA players (Simmons will get some votes, could make third team). This goes to your point about how likely the absolute ceilings of players are to bereached. Embiid and Simmons right now are probbaly higher just becuase they are closer to those ceilings, but i think our young guys close the gap next season.

I have to very much disagree with your Tatum point. He literally can't be Durant because Durant is neary 7 feet tall with a massive wingspan and a better athelte. He just doesn't, and wont ever have those physcial tools. Its not that he can't be good, or a top 10 NBA player, but he it isnt a good comparison for Durant because no one is.

True - didn't realize Durant also possesses a 7'4" wingspan. That's huge. Tatum is like 6'9"ish with a 7'0" wingspan. So basically a scaled-down version of Durant.

Tatum might've grown a bit this season. But if we're looking at game, it's not a stretch to compare the two. Silky offensive players, excellent jumper, great handle. Tatum loses the ball on the way to the cup too often, but that will improve.

What would your Tatum comp be? Absolute ceiling? Not Danny Granger - Tatum's ceiling is better than that. I think his ceiling might even be north of Paul Pierce, but he might be my second comp... though, again, body differences exist there, too. I know this isn't the player comparison thread but determining ceilings is part of how we get to the team with the better future.

Maybe it's enough to say - all four of Brown/Tatum/Embiid/Simmons could end up as all-NBA players at one level or another in the same season, at some point.

[Vermont Green]

The way that Simmons moves on the court and sees the floor, I feel he is the most unique of all of these.  Yes, he has no touch right now.  He may find it, he may not, but even if he doesn't, he is a 6'-10" Rondo who is only 21 years old.

Embiid is a classic big and could become dominant but injuries scare you with him.   If I could pick all things equal, I would pick Simmons over Embiid.

As for as our guys (Brown and Tatum), love them both.  Would not consider trading either unless we were talking Anthony Davis or someone like that.  Although I feel Simmons has the tools to be the best of all, he also has more uncertainty.  Brown and Tatum have a higher floor but perhaps not as high a ceiling.

In terms of the overall teams, I like that the Celtics are where they are without tanking.  Short term, the Celtics are better because we know we are getting Kyrie and Hayward next season.  Philly could add a big name and change the equation but who knows.

[smokeablount]

People are parroting that Embiid and Simmons are the ‘best 2 players in the series’ or have ‘the highest upside’ the way that people parroted that Fultz was the clear top prospect. It’s hype and stats over winning and stats yet again.

Repeating things again and again doesn’t make them true. The evidence says Embiid can’t stay healthy and it says that Simmons is easier to neutralize than any of our young studs. I don’t think it’s a given that Philly has the top 2 young pups at all. Philly isn’t the only team with potential, and they’re currently getting outplayed. Small sample sizes, but the point is, it’s up in the air.

[Big333223]

People are parroting that Embiid and Simmons are the ‘best 2 players in the series’ or have ‘the highest upside’ the way that people parroted that Fultz was the clear top prospect. It’s hype and stats over winning and stats yet again.

Repeating things again and again doesn’t make them true. The evidence says Embiid can’t stay healthy and it says that Simmons is easier to neutralize than any of our young studs. I don’t think it’s a given that Philly has the top 2 young pups at all. Philly isn’t the only team with potential, and they’re currently getting outplayed. Small sample sizes, but the point is, it’s up in the air.

I do understand the "Embiid and Simmons have the highest upside" but I also think Tatum has, clearly, been the best player this series. Absolutely.

[rondofan1255]

4-2 in favor of the C’s 

[spikelovetheCelts]

Things change fast. But I like our future better than anyone. The Ownership, Danny and Brad could not be better. Our players are class and we have heart. Hopefully we can make the Finals this year.
All our young guys work hard. Yabu and Semi may also blossom. The picks are coming too.
Life is good for us and I know we can beat Philly tonight and in the future. 

[celticsclay]

At this stage I don't think it's arguable who will have the best future over the next 5 or 6 years.

I think it’s arguable. Their arguments are based upon upside, and everything working out ideally: Embiid, Simmons and Fultz develop, they hit on our lottery pick, they sign a difference-maker in free agency, etc.

Our future seemingly has a higher floor with fewer question marks. Even if Tatum and Brown don’t develop at al, the Celts should be in great shape. The one big issue for us is the luxury tax. How much of our peripheral core will we have to dump? Rozier, Smart, Morris, Baynes? Horford? There’s a realistic shot all could be gone in 2-3 years.

Roy don't you think there is a pretty good chance Horford would stay here on a reasonable deal when his contract expires? He will be 33 then and having had just made a massive amount of money. I am not sure how big a multiyear contract he would get at that age given he is slowly down slightly already. He also seems to really love stevens and the celtics.

[kozlodoev]

People are parroting that Embiid and Simmons are the ‘best 2 players in the series’ or have ‘the highest upside’ the way that people parroted that Fultz was the clear top prospect. It’s hype and stats over winning and stats yet again.

Repeating things again and again doesn’t make them true. The evidence says Embiid can’t stay healthy and it says that Simmons is easier to neutralize than any of our young studs. I don’t think it’s a given that Philly has the top 2 young pups at all. Philly isn’t the only team with potential, and they’re currently getting outplayed. Small sample sizes, but the point is, it’s up in the air.

Embiid might be the best player in the series. But 3 of the 4 top players in the series are probably Celtics.

I don't understand the whole "Philly is the team with more talent" spiel either. The talent level is, at worst, a wash.

[keevsnick]

Ceiling: A lot of the debate is based on the idea that Simmons and Embiid have the highest ceilings. OK, I want to deconstruct that. What are the absolute highest possible ceilings of each young stud? For Embiid it's gotta be Hakeem the Dream and for Simmons it could be Lebron. Tatum could be Durant, Brown might be Kawhi or even D-Wade. We're talking absolute best case scenario. Then the question is, what's the likelihood of each happening? Frankly, I think Tatum has a higher chance of turning into Durant than Simmons/Embiid do of reaching those lofty heights.

I agree that a lot of this debate has to do with ceiling, I think our young guys have alot of it. The 76ers guys get a lot of love because they are closer to that ceiling right now, which in some ways makes it more projectable. Tatum and Brown are solid starter level, maybe better players. Embiid and Simmons are All NBA, and borderline All NBA players (Simmons will get some votes, could make third team). This goes to your point about how likely the absolute ceilings of players are to bereached. Embiid and Simmons right now are probbaly higher just becuase they are closer to those ceilings, but i think our young guys close the gap next season.

I have to very much disagree with your Tatum point. He literally can't be Durant because Durant is neary 7 feet tall with a massive wingspan and a better athelte. He just doesn't, and wont ever have those physcial tools. Its not that he can't be good, or a top 10 NBA player, but he it isnt a good comparison for Durant because no one is.

True - didn't realize Durant also possesses a 7'4" wingspan. That's huge. Tatum is like 6'9"ish with a 7'0" wingspan. So basically a scaled-down version of Durant.

Tatum might've grown a bit this season. But if we're looking at game, it's not a stretch to compare the two. Silky offensive players, excellent jumper, great handle. Tatum loses the ball on the way to the cup too often, but that will improve.

What would your Tatum comp be? Absolute ceiling? Not Danny Granger - Tatum's ceiling is better than that. I think his ceiling might even be north of Paul Pierce, but he might be my second comp... though, again, body differences exist there, too. I know this isn't the player comparison thread but determining ceilings is part of how we get to the team with the better future.

Maybe it's enough to say - all four of Brown/Tatum/Embiid/Simmons could end up as all-NBA players at one level or another in the same season, at some point.

I like everyone else make player comparisons. I just dont like making comparisons to guys like Kevin Durante who are absolute physical freaks because even if Tatums skills reach that level he isnt a physical freak. I think he will be better than granger, but the feel of their games isnt far off. He is more advanced than peirce as a rookie, but thats the best comp. Being compared to a HOF isnt bad

[Big333223]

People are parroting that Embiid and Simmons are the ‘best 2 players in the series’ or have ‘the highest upside’ the way that people parroted that Fultz was the clear top prospect. It’s hype and stats over winning and stats yet again.

Repeating things again and again doesn’t make them true. The evidence says Embiid can’t stay healthy and it says that Simmons is easier to neutralize than any of our young studs. I don’t think it’s a given that Philly has the top 2 young pups at all. Philly isn’t the only team with potential, and they’re currently getting outplayed. Small sample sizes, but the point is, it’s up in the air.

Embiid might be the best player in the series. But 3 of the 4 top players in the series are probably Celtics.

I don't understand the whole "Philly is the team with more talent" spiel either. The talent level is, at worst, a wash.

Are you saying Embiid has played the best in the series or that he is the best player who is playing in the series?

[freshinthehouse]

I'd take the Celtics' future over the Sixers', but it is very close.  I think the Sixers have two guys with ceilings higher than any player we currently have, but I just like how Boston's roster fits compared to Philly's.  Something still seems off there.  And plus, Boston has CBS.  That is huuuge.

A lot of it comes down to how all these future picks play out.  If either this years LAL pick or next year's sacto pick hit #1, philly gets the edge then.  And aside from the LAL/Sacto picks, is that the end of Philly getting primo picks from other teams?  I think it is.  Boston still has that future MEM pick, which could be something special too.  That team is aging hurry and is in cap space hell.  How sick would it be for Memphis fans to give up a top 3 pick in 2021 for 90-odd games from Jeff Green in 2015?

This decision also hinges on what Philly does with their cap room.  Obv boston struck gold with their cap room, getting two of the biggest free agents available in their prospective years.  If Philly strikes out with the max level guys, i think they should look at Avery Bradley.  Dude would be perfect for their system.  He can guard opposing PGs, he can stick the 3, and he doesnt need the ball in his hands to be effective.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I think both Brown and Tatum have similar futures to Simmons.

While Embiid's potential might be higher, the likelihood he reaches that potential is significantly less than the likelihood Tatum and Brown reach theirs.

[kozlodoev]

People are parroting that Embiid and Simmons are the ‘best 2 players in the series’ or have ‘the highest upside’ the way that people parroted that Fultz was the clear top prospect. It’s hype and stats over winning and stats yet again.

Repeating things again and again doesn’t make them true. The evidence says Embiid can’t stay healthy and it says that Simmons is easier to neutralize than any of our young studs. I don’t think it’s a given that Philly has the top 2 young pups at all. Philly isn’t the only team with potential, and they’re currently getting outplayed. Small sample sizes, but the point is, it’s up in the air.

Embiid might be the best player in the series. But 3 of the 4 top players in the series are probably Celtics.

I don't understand the whole "Philly is the team with more talent" spiel either. The talent level is, at worst, a wash.

Are you saying Embiid has played the best in the series or that he is the best player who is playing in the series?

I'm talking about talent. I think it's pretty clear who played best in this series.

[colincb]

You need a lot of "Ifs" for the Sixers to turn out better. Like Simmons getting a shot and a heart when he never had one and Embiid staying healthy despite medical concerns and them getting Lebron who will somehow fit with their other ball dominant player and If they surpass Boston who they're quite far behind already.

If the Sixers were that good, they'd be winning this series easily against a depleted team (2 all-stars, 2 rotation) forced to play injured players in Brown and Smart. Who's hurt on their side, excluding their egos?

[vjcsmoke]

How does Simmons have a higher ceiling?

Tatum has a year less experience but as a true rookie has been the BEST rookie in the entire NBA playoffs.  He has scored 20 points in 7 straight playoff games.  He is the first and only 20 years old or younger player to pull off that feat, and he isn't done yet because we are advancing to the Conference Finals against Cleveland!

And of those 4 players -- Simmons, Embiid, Tatum, Brown -- Jaylen Brown is far and away the best ATHLETE of that young quartet of future stars!

The media loves kissing Simmons and Embiid's feet, but the Celtics youngsters are the ones who shined the brightest in this head to head series!