What Should Constitute an NBA Rookie?

[bdm860]

It doesn't matter...it's not his first year in NBA he is not a rookie.
'Has anyone even bothered to look up the definition of rookie in the dictionary?

Have you?

Dictionary.com

noun
1.
an athlete playing his or her first season as a member of a professional sports team:

Seems like playing is the basis of the defintion.  Something Simmons didn't do last year.

[tazzmaniac]

It doesn't matter...it's not his first year in NBA he is not a rookie.
'Has anyone even bothered to look up the definition of rookie in the dictionary?

NBA eligibility rules make Simmons a rookie and eligible for the ROY just like Blake Griffin was.
"The dictionary" has no bearing on eligibility rules on any actual sport. 

Even so, the Merriam-Webster definition of rookie is: a first-year participant in a major professional sport.  There is no mention of contract but it does refer to being a participant.  It is hard to be considered a participant when you are injured for the full season. 

[KGs Knee]

It doesn't matter...it's not his first year in NBA he is not a rookie.
'Has anyone even bothered to look up the definition of rookie in the dictionary?

NBA eligibility rules make Simmons a rookie and eligible for the ROY just like Blake Griffin was.
"The dictionary" has no bearing on eligibility rules on any actual sport. 

Even so, the Merriam-Webster definition of rookie is: a first-year participant in a major professional sport.  There is no mention of contract but it does refer to being a participant.  It is hard to be considered a participant when you are injured for the full season. 

It doesn't say participating in games, it just says participant.  You can participate in other team related activities such as video sessions, rehabilitation, training, ect..

We do seem to agree that no league should be bound by a dictionary. They're free to make up whatever rules they wish.

Common sense says if you are on a team and accrue a year of service that was your rookie year.  I've always felt leagues that give players a do-over for a failed rookie year are making the wrong decision.

Others obviously see it differently, and I think they're wrong.  But being that the rules are what they are, I'm not going to complain if someone wins an award based on the rules as they are.

[tazzmaniac]

It doesn't matter...it's not his first year in NBA he is not a rookie.
'Has anyone even bothered to look up the definition of rookie in the dictionary?

NBA eligibility rules make Simmons a rookie and eligible for the ROY just like Blake Griffin was.
"The dictionary" has no bearing on eligibility rules on any actual sport. 

Even so, the Merriam-Webster definition of rookie is: a first-year participant in a major professional sport.  There is no mention of contract but it does refer to being a participant.  It is hard to be considered a participant when you are injured for the full season. 

It doesn't say participating in games, it just says participant.  You can participate in other team related activities such as video sessions, rehabilitation, training, ect..

We do seem to agree that no league should be bound by a dictionary. They're free to make up whatever rules they wish.

Common sense says if you are on a team and accrue a year of service that was your rookie year.  I've always felt leagues that give players a do-over for a failed rookie year are making the wrong decision.

Others obviously see it differently, and I think they're wrong.  But being that the rules are what they are, I'm not going to complain if someone wins an award based on the rules as they are.

Common sense says that if the NBA players thought as you did that they would have gotten the rule change.  This already occurred with Blake Griffin so it is not something out of the blue.  NBA players are going to look at you as a rookie if you've never actually played regardless of your years of service. 

[Celtics4ever]

They want certain guys to win rookie of the year and this enables them to do so if they get injured so the league did not waste their marketing dollars.

[Ogaju]

It doesn't matter...it's not his first year in NBA he is not a rookie.
'Has anyone even bothered to look up the definition of rookie in the dictionary?

NBA eligibility rules make Simmons a rookie and eligible for the ROY just like Blake Griffin was.
"The dictionary" has no bearing on eligibility rules on any actual sport. 

Even so, the Merriam-Webster definition of rookie is: a first-year participant in a major professional sport.  There is no mention of contract but it does refer to being a participant.  It is hard to be considered a participant when you are injured for the full season. 

It doesn't say participating in games, it just says participant.  You can participate in other team related activities such as video sessions, rehabilitation, training, ect..

We do seem to agree that no league should be bound by a dictionary. They're free to make up whatever rules they wish.

Common sense says if you are on a team and accrue a year of service that was your rookie year.  I've always felt leagues that give players a do-over for a failed rookie year are making the wrong decision.

Others obviously see it differently, and I think they're wrong.  But being that the rules are what they are, I'm not going to complain if someone wins an award based on the rules as they are.

I really don't care who wins the award or what the NBA rules say....I care about proper use of the word rookie. The NBA can give Simmons rookie of the year, heck they can give it to LeBron if they want, but neither of them satisfy the dictionary definition of rookie. By the way when you are drafted and sign a contract to play in a league, you have participated in that league.

[Moranis]

It doesn't matter...it's not his first year in NBA he is not a rookie.
'Has anyone even bothered to look up the definition of rookie in the dictionary?

NBA eligibility rules make Simmons a rookie and eligible for the ROY just like Blake Griffin was.
"The dictionary" has no bearing on eligibility rules on any actual sport. 

Even so, the Merriam-Webster definition of rookie is: a first-year participant in a major professional sport.  There is no mention of contract but it does refer to being a participant.  It is hard to be considered a participant when you are injured for the full season. 

It doesn't say participating in games, it just says participant.  You can participate in other team related activities such as video sessions, rehabilitation, training, ect..

We do seem to agree that no league should be bound by a dictionary. They're free to make up whatever rules they wish.

Common sense says if you are on a team and accrue a year of service that was your rookie year.  I've always felt leagues that give players a do-over for a failed rookie year are making the wrong decision.

Others obviously see it differently, and I think they're wrong.  But being that the rules are what they are, I'm not going to complain if someone wins an award based on the rules as they are.

I really don't care who wins the award or what the NBA rules say....I care about proper use of the word rookie. The NBA can give Simmons rookie of the year, heck they can give it to LeBron if they want, but neither of them satisfy the dictionary definition of rookie. By the way when you are drafted and sign a contract to play in a league, you have participated in that league.

which definition.

Here is what dictionary.com says

noun
1.
an athlete playing his or her first season as a member of a professional sports team:
The rookie replaced the injured regular at first base.
2.
a raw recruit, as in the army or on a police force.
3.
a novice; tyro.


So all 3 definitions would apply to Simmons.  This is first year playing.  He is raw.  He is a novice.

Seems to me, you just didn't bother to look up the word.

[Ogaju]

I did but I did not look at dictionary.com....try Oxford or Webster,

By the way I disagree with you that any of the three definitions apply to Simmons...he participated and played for sixers ...this is not his first year as a player for the sixers. He didn't make the court but he was eligible as a player.

[jambr380]

This conversation seems to be getting into 'pedantic' territory. I think we can all agree that it's a little confusing when somebody like Simmons began his rookie contract last year, but is a rookie this year or somebody like Embiid is only considered a 2nd year player, but his rookie contract is about to come to an end.

This is simply a question of how we should label players who are getting paid guaranteed NBA contracts, but apparently aren't considered NBA players.

[Moranis]

I did but I did not look at dictionary.com....try Oxford or Webster,

By the way I disagree with you that any of the three definitions apply to Simmons...he participated and played for sixers ...this is not his first year as a player for the sixers. He didn't make the court but he was eligible as a player.

Oxford says a rookie is "a member of a sports team in their first full season."  I think you can pretty clearly argue that this is Simmons first full season. 

I think you can also reasonably argue that Simmons was not a participant until this year, and thus this is his rookie year by even Merriam Webster's definition.  Merriam Webster also has a definition with the word player instead of participant and one that says someone that just started a job or activity and thus has little experience.  Again I think you could reasonably argue that applies to Simmons this year. 

For the record, player is defined as a person that plays in a game. 

when your fall back position is to say use the dictionary, and then the dictionary supports the opposite position (yours as well), it isn't a very compelling argument to be made.

[Ogaju]

I did but I did not look at dictionary.com....try Oxford or Webster,

By the way I disagree with you that any of the three definitions apply to Simmons...he participated and played for sixers ...this is not his first year as a player for the sixers. He didn't make the court but he was eligible as a player.

Oxford says a rookie is "a member of a sports team in their first full season."  I think you can pretty clearly argue that this is Simmons first full season. 

I think you can also reasonably argue that Simmons was not a participant until this year, and thus this is his rookie year by even Merriam Webster's definition.  Merriam Webster also has a definition with the word player instead of participant and one that says someone that just started a job or activity and thus has little experience.  Again I think you could reasonably argue that applies to Simmons this year. 

For the record, player is defined as a person that plays in a game. 

when your fall back position is to say use the dictionary, and then the dictionary supports the opposite position (yours as well), it isn't a very compelling argument to be made.

I stand by the dictionary definitions, and your spin on the definitions are quite a reach. I bet that first year when Simmons was laid up and not playing he would have filled out professional basketball player on any form that required him to state his occupation. I bet he would have told any girl that asked him his occupation that he plays in the NBA. He was not raw this year because he already had a year in the NBA. He was not a novice because he already had a year in the NBA. He participated in the NBA for a whole year as a sixer. When he signed the contract he participated. When he played in the summer league he participated in the NBA. When he got injured and was treated by the sixers doctors he participated in the NBA. When sat court side at the all star game he was part of the NBA. When he studied film he was participating in the NBA. When he used the benefit of his million dollar contract for nutrition and access to trainers for rehabilitation he participated in the NBA. When he spent a whole year with access to the playbook and proclivities of some teammates he participated in the NBA. When he sat out a whole year while getting full salary he participated in a benefit that very few get on their job. Therefore he participated in the NBA as a player under contract for a full year before the 2017 draft class. Part of being a player in the NBA is bouncing a ball and performing civic duties, both require adjustment. A rookie has to adjust to both. Simmons had a full year to learn and adjust to the civic duties without the stress of playing. Tatum has to do both... Do you really want to have this debate?

If development does not matter why do we look for the players to get better from year to year? Unless you can say a year of nuitrition, practice, studying tape, or adjusting to the schedule of the NBA does not matter, then you have no point.

[celticsclay]

I did but I did not look at dictionary.com....try Oxford or Webster,

By the way I disagree with you that any of the three definitions apply to Simmons...he participated and played for sixers ...this is not his first year as a player for the sixers. He didn't make the court but he was eligible as a player.

Oxford says a rookie is "a member of a sports team in their first full season."  I think you can pretty clearly argue that this is Simmons first full season. 

I think you can also reasonably argue that Simmons was not a participant until this year, and thus this is his rookie year by even Merriam Webster's definition.  Merriam Webster also has a definition with the word player instead of participant and one that says someone that just started a job or activity and thus has little experience.  Again I think you could reasonably argue that applies to Simmons this year. 

For the record, player is defined as a person that plays in a game. 

when your fall back position is to say use the dictionary, and then the dictionary supports the opposite position (yours as well), it isn't a very compelling argument to be made.

I stand by the dictionary definitions, and your spin on the definitions are quite a reach. I bet that first year when Simmons was laid up and not playing he would have filled out professional basketball player on any form that required him to state his occupation. I bet he would have told any girl that asked him his occupation that he plays in the NBA. He was not raw this year because he already had a year in the NBA. He was not a novice because he already had a year in the NBA. He participated in the NBA for a whole year as a sixer. When he signed the contract he participated. When he played in the summer league he participated in the NBA. When he got injured and was treated by the sixers doctors he participated in the NBA. When sat court side at the all star game he was part of the NBA. When he studied film he was participating in the NBA. When he used the benefit of his million dollar contract for nutrition and access to trainers for rehabilitation he participated in the NBA. When he spent a whole year with access to the playbook and proclivities of some teammates he participated in the NBA. When he sat out a whole year while getting full salary he participated in a benefit that very few get on their job. Therefore he participated in the NBA as a player under contract for a full year before the 2017 draft class. Part of being a player in the NBA is bouncing a ball and performing civic duties, both require adjustment. A rookie has to adjust to both. Simmons had a full year to learn and adjust to the civic duties without the stress of playing. Tatum has to do both... Do you really want to have this debate?

If development does not matter why do we look for the players to get better from year to year? Unless you can say a year of nuitrition, practice, studying tape, or adjusting to the schedule of the NBA does not matter, then you have no point.

Well said

[footey]

I did but I did not look at dictionary.com....try Oxford or Webster,

By the way I disagree with you that any of the three definitions apply to Simmons...he participated and played for sixers ...this is not his first year as a player for the sixers. He didn't make the court but he was eligible as a player.

Oxford says a rookie is "a member of a sports team in their first full season."  I think you can pretty clearly argue that this is Simmons first full season. 

I think you can also reasonably argue that Simmons was not a participant until this year, and thus this is his rookie year by even Merriam Webster's definition.  Merriam Webster also has a definition with the word player instead of participant and one that says someone that just started a job or activity and thus has little experience.  Again I think you could reasonably argue that applies to Simmons this year. 

For the record, player is defined as a person that plays in a game. 

when your fall back position is to say use the dictionary, and then the dictionary supports the opposite position (yours as well), it isn't a very compelling argument to be made.

he was clearly a member of the team last year.

 Def of player makes no sense. If a guy is on the roster all season healthy, but doesn’t get any PT, that definition would say he is not a “player”. Poor definition.

[nickagneta]

So if a player in their first year on a rookie contract is healthy, practices and is eligible to play but never plays a minute that first year, are they deemed a rookie the following season  if they finally get game minutes the next year? Does being healthy and on the team participating but not playing deemed the same as being injured?

[jambr380]

So if a player in their first year on a rookie contract is healthy, practices and is eligible to play but never plays a minute that first year, are they deemed a rookie the following season  if they finally get game minutes the next year? Does being healthy and on the team participating but not playing deemed the same as being injured?

A quick view on Wiki brought this up:

In the National Basketball Association, a rookie is any player who has never played a game in the NBA until that year.

By this definition, it doesn't matter whether a player is considered injured or not. But I really don't want to get back into the discussion of definitions