I don't have to, given that a new NCAA rule created in 2016 gave prospects the chance to return to school until May 25th, which is AFTER the combine. Previously you had to decide by April 16th, which is BEFORE the combine. So now anyone who is even considering declaring for the draft can go to the combine, and still choose to return to school.
That’s what I was saying. It’s good to see you admit you were talking about the wrong guy. It’s ok, just try to double check before you post next time.
No, he’s really not. And you have no evidence or stats that would suggest otherwise. The only league Yabu has played enough minutes in for us to judge him was in China. There is no reason to suggest that he would be able to lead a team to the National Championship or dominate in college.
I don’t think Eddie20 knows who Moritz Wagner is. If you did, you wouldn’t argue that his game won’t translate to the NBA. Quite the opposite actually, as his shooting and playmaking at 6’11’’ is built perfectly for the modern NBA. It’s also ridiculous to call him a “low ceiling player”. He has gotten better every year since he came to America when he was 18, and he still is improving. He went from coming off the bench to being the focal point of championship team. And it’s crazy to think that Yabu would “completely eat up Wagner”. Yabu has done nothing so far, college or NBA. We have him for his potential, not for how good he is right now.
TP Triboy. I’m a big Wagner fan, and he’s the reason I picked Michigan to win it all (over Villanova as well). He’s very well rounded and extremely versatile. If we could get him late 1st/early 2nd, it would be a great pick.
Wagner tried to come out last year, but after the combine the consensus from teams was that he should go back to school. That's not a real good sign.
He can shoot, yeah, but he has really bad feet. I'm not sure what position he's going to defend at the NBA level. This guy screams Pittsnogle to me. Good college player, good shooter, but not good enough for the NBA. Again, he has a really low ceiling. Best case scenario is probably a journeyman type.
Yabu, who has more potential, is also a better player than Wagner right now. He would feast on collegiate athletes.
And you’re just wrong about Wagner. Even if you don’t think he’ll end up being good, it’s ridiculous to say that his absolute best case scenario is a journeyman. When someone who is 6’11’’, plays solid defense, and his shooting and playmaking abilities hits their ceiling, they aren’t a journeyman type player. That just doesn’t make any sense.
We might not be talking about the same player. Because the guy that I'm talking about is not a playmaker (averages 0.8 apg in 27.5 mpg) and is a bad defender. Is the guy you're referring going to be able to defend the PNR and switch onto smaller players, you know, things that are key in Stevens D?
In all seriousness, being a journeymen isn't a slight on the guy. It's tough to make it. College success means little in having success at the NBA level. Players more talent and with more greater collegiate accolades have failed. I just don't see any upside in the guy, so why waste a roster spot on a player who's not really going to help you much now or in the future?
Anyway, Moritz Wagner does have good playmaking skills. He handles the ball well for a big man, attack closeouts well, can post up, as well as pass out of double teams well. Not sure what that has to do with his assist numbers. And he’s a very solid defender. He doesn’t protect the rim, but he defends well in space for a guy his size. He’s also a good post defender and has good instincts, he averages a steal a game. Him playing the 5 in Michigan’s defense allows them to hedge pick and rolls hard, which is a big reason why they are 13th in defensive efficiency in the nation.
So I think he’s well worth a late 1st/early 2nd. And a journeyman is someone like Ersan Ilyasova or Trevor Booker. If you want to say that's his floor, I would be ok with that. But to say it's his ceiling just doesn't make sense, it's like you don't know what ceiling means. Maybe go do some research, and come back when you know a little more about him.
Wow! So basically someone like Illyasova is his floor? What's his ceiling then? Please keep educating me on this guy because clearly he's a lot better, and moves his feet faster, than where draft sites have him. That said, since you seem the be the go to guy for all things Wagner, why is it that he went back to school after the combine? Doesn't that seem odd? Can you name another example where a player went to the combine, went back to school due to some mysterious reason (lack of talent perhaps), and carved out a solid, non journeyman type career? Thanks.
You really should do some research on topics before you go and get into an argument about them. That's twice you've ended up looking silly.
yes... and the guy he wouldn't mind taking a risk on (Diallo) ...did the exact same thing
You don't see any difference in that comparison? Diallo was 18, a 5 star recruit, and hadn't played a single game in college. That said, he posted an insane vert and had nearly a 7 foot wingspan. The kid is still 19, raw as can be, and while he's risky as any prospect, there is no denying his ceiling is immense.
nobody is stating that he is going to be a starting all calibre Center like you foolishly hope Diallo may become
He hasn't done much to change his position from last seasons draft. Likely will go in the 2nd round again, unless some GM that likes to play darts in the dark like you , takes a chance on him earlier
Who are you talking about? Cheick?
You're really hung up on Diallo, huh? I'd rather take Brown, which I stated, but I wouldn't be at all opposed to taking a player with Diallo's upside. Keeping him in the G-League, let him learn the PG position, and see what happens. If he busts, you cut him like Young. If he booms, you just nailed a pick at a ridiculous deal.
Bigs may take longer to develop, but that's all dependent on the player. There are close to finish products (like a Olynyk or Kaminsky) that will develop marginally. Then you have raw athletes (like a Capela or DeAndre) that will take longer to develop. Again, the position doesn't necessarily mean linear development.
If you guys want to be aboard the Wagner hype train, then be my guest. I just don't see much in him. He looks like he's going to be badly exposed on the next level. Time will tell, hopefully he turns out better than Mickey did, though.