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Author Topic: Intriguing Question To Ask Related To "Isaiah Chaos Theory" Thread  (Read 3046 times)

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Offline Phantom255x

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Stole this from a facebook post on a Celtics group

So what would you rather be? A or B?

Yes, Isaiah would have just come back from injury but would likely be compromised overall going forward, and idk how Crowder would react playing alongside Hayward, or having his minutes cut in general, but boy, that BKN Pick looks like a Top-5 pick now (sadly).

Also, I think this hypothetical assumes we finished the regular season with 45 wins, but that's with us ending on a good run while getting back a healthy Isaiah and still having Crowder, BKN Pick, Zizic (since the Kyrie deal was never done in this scenario). Basically, we're a much healthier team today AND have the Brooklyn Pick still (and Kings as well).

I love and miss what Isaiah did for us, and Crowder too, but I still lean towards B here. What really makes me hesitate though is that BKN Pick, which could have yielded us the franchise big of the future. Meanwhile, idk if that will be the case with next year's class. What do you guys think? 
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Intriguing Question To Ask Related To "Isaiah Chaos Theory" Thread
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2018, 12:54:35 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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Depends on where the Nets pick lands and who wants to play with Kyrie, but I'd lean toward B, where we are now.  At best, that pick turns into a player about as good as Kyrie in his prime.
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Re: Intriguing Question To Ask Related To "Isaiah Chaos Theory" Thread
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2018, 01:03:42 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I just wanted to point out that the Nets have some very winnable games to finish up the season, including: Memphis, Charlotte, Orlando, Detroit, Chicago twice, and us on the last day of the season (we should absolutely be resting players that game!). Remember, the other teams have absolutely nothing to play for at this point while the Nets would be perfectly happy to win a few games. After winning last night, they are currently tied for the 5th pick with the Mavs (who they just beat) so they could easily slide back a couple of spots to 7-8.

To answer your question, I am happy with the trade. We weren't going anywhere with IT and we got younger and increased our top level talent. If everything suddenly fell apart with Kyrie, we could easily trade him for a similar package to what we paid. Kyrie not only is a [near] superstar, he is also extremely popular. A franchise whose fan base is lacking would kill to have him as the face of their team...but that is not the plan - I am sure Danny and Brad are psyched to have him.

Re: Intriguing Question To Ask Related To "Isaiah Chaos Theory" Thread
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2018, 01:13:09 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I don't think Boston wins 45 games with Rozier as our starting PG for half the season, and a clearly not-as-good Thomas for the other half, so option 'A' is pretty much a non-starter in my opinion.

Option 'B' is really the only choice here. Thomas was never going to be a part of this team's future once Ainge learned the extent of Thomas' hip injury. Maybe that's cold hearted on his behalf, but it was clearly the right choice for the betterment of the team.

Re: Intriguing Question To Ask Related To "Isaiah Chaos Theory" Thread
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2018, 01:15:14 PM »

Offline mctyson

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You have to take where they are now.  The reality is that Danny was not going to resign IT following the hip injury (or at least not at the price he would want/get).  Therefore he had to get something back for him. 

After bringing in Hayward, they needed to build a committed, contending core for the next 2-3 years.  Adding Kyrie did that.  Drafting a rookie would not.

Yeah, maybe IT comes back healthy this season and with Hayward and Horford, they can make the finals.  I doubt that, but it is a possible outcome that could have happened.




Re: Intriguing Question To Ask Related To "Isaiah Chaos Theory" Thread
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2018, 01:19:02 PM »

Online Donoghus

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"B" without any hesitation.


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Re: Intriguing Question To Ask Related To "Isaiah Chaos Theory" Thread
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2018, 01:41:51 PM »

Offline CroCorvus

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B by a mile...

Re: Intriguing Question To Ask Related To "Isaiah Chaos Theory" Thread
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2018, 02:12:11 PM »

Offline blink

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another vote in the ever enlarging "B" pot.

Re: Intriguing Question To Ask Related To "Isaiah Chaos Theory" Thread
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2018, 02:35:54 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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The "Elephant in the Room" pick is C.

"C" is where Isaiah Thomas pays more attention to his HEALTH (and not the TEAM). - right after he had Karl Anthony Towns fall on him and injure his hip back in March of 2017.

He THEN completely SHUTS himself DOWN after he TWEEKS it in the playoffs. THIS result - however, would deprive BOS of making it out of the 2nd round vs WAS and thusly makes us a LESS desirable NBA destination.

But Isaiah Thomas would've had his HEALTH. Following the SAME protocol for recovery that he had BUT executing it EARLIER (perhaps in April 2017?) he could've very well made it back NEARLY 100% in time for the 2017-18 NBA season.

He chose the LATTER, where QUIT is not an option. Ran himself literally into the ground for the city and the TEAM, ignoring whatever suggestions (if ANY) he received from the doctors (FORMER doctors, I may add).

He helped the team become a LOT more attractive on the NBA landscape, at his own health's expense.

Would Gordon Hayward STILL have chosen BOS? Perhaps, but it would've been even more questionable going to a team that basically achieved the SAME result as his FORMER team (Utah). Both Utah and BOS would've been 2nd round losers in this scenario.

So we could've had a 90-100% Isaiah Thomas, perhaps GH but DEFINITELY Jae Crowder, Big Al, Tatum, Jaylen AND that BKN pick.

Some bitterness there with me, even though I love Kyrie and the team we have now.

If SPORTS - especially nowadays - teaches us LESSONS then perhaps we should NOT give it our ALL.........OR pick and choose our spots?

End rant.

Re: Intriguing Question To Ask Related To "Isaiah Chaos Theory" Thread
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2018, 02:48:41 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Would Gordon Hayward STILL have chosen BOS? Perhaps, but it would've been even more questionable going to a team that basically achieved the SAME result as his FORMER team (Utah). Both Utah and BOS would've been 2nd round losers in this scenario.

I'm pretty confident Gordon Hayward comes to Boston regardless of what happened in last season's playoffs.  The main draw for him was always Brad Stevens, that seemed to far outweigh any other factor.


Quote
If SPORTS - especially nowadays - teaches us LESSONS then perhaps we should NOT give it our ALL.........OR pick and choose our spots?

I mean, when has this ever not been the case in terms of managing your own health?  I've always found the idea of playing through injury that can cause long-term further damage to your health to be misplaced bravado.  You should always do what is in your own best interest when it comes to your health.

What was Ainge supposed to do, just go ahead and give IT the contract he wanted out of gratitude?  That would be a terrible decision for the best interest of the team.

Re: Intriguing Question To Ask Related To "Isaiah Chaos Theory" Thread
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2018, 03:02:41 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Would Gordon Hayward STILL have chosen BOS? Perhaps, but it would've been even more questionable going to a team that basically achieved the SAME result as his FORMER team (Utah). Both Utah and BOS would've been 2nd round losers in this scenario.

I'm pretty confident Gordon Hayward comes to Boston regardless of what happened in last season's playoffs.  The main draw for him was always Brad Stevens, that seemed to far outweigh any other factor.


Quote
If SPORTS - especially nowadays - teaches us LESSONS then perhaps we should NOT give it our ALL.........OR pick and choose our spots?

I mean, when has this ever not been the case in terms of managing your own health?  I've always found the idea of playing through injury that can cause long-term further damage to your health to be misplaced bravado.  You should always do what is in your own best interest when it comes to your health.

What was Ainge supposed to do, just go ahead and give IT the contract he wanted out of gratitude?  That would be a terrible decision for the best interest of the team.

Nope. Do NOT give "The limping, former corpse called Isaiah" ANY contract. Let his injured behind walk.

Let your BEST player walk out the door because they couldn't (or wouldn't) negotiate a decent contract for BOTH parties.

I'm certain IT - being that he loved BOS - could've been negotiated into something other than a Brinks.

LOL do we REALLY believe that Danny Ainge would've let our BEST player walk? THEN what?

Let's not fool ourselves into believing that GH would've still came...or at least "I" don't believe so....especially if he could've guessed how good Donovan Mitchell was going to be?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 03:10:54 PM by GreenFaith1819 »

Re: Intriguing Question To Ask Related To "Isaiah Chaos Theory" Thread
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2018, 03:16:16 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Would Gordon Hayward STILL have chosen BOS? Perhaps, but it would've been even more questionable going to a team that basically achieved the SAME result as his FORMER team (Utah). Both Utah and BOS would've been 2nd round losers in this scenario.

I'm pretty confident Gordon Hayward comes to Boston regardless of what happened in last season's playoffs.  The main draw for him was always Brad Stevens, that seemed to far outweigh any other factor.


Quote
If SPORTS - especially nowadays - teaches us LESSONS then perhaps we should NOT give it our ALL.........OR pick and choose our spots?

I mean, when has this ever not been the case in terms of managing your own health?  I've always found the idea of playing through injury that can cause long-term further damage to your health to be misplaced bravado.  You should always do what is in your own best interest when it comes to your health.

What was Ainge supposed to do, just go ahead and give IT the contract he wanted out of gratitude?  That would be a terrible decision for the best interest of the team.

Nope. Do NOT give "The limping, former corpse called Isaiah" ANY contract. Let his injured behind walk.

Let your BEST player walk out the door because they couldn't (or wouldn't) negotiate a decent contract for BOTH parties.

I'm certain IT - being that he loved BOS - could've been negotiated into something other than a Brinks.

LOL do we REALLY believe that Danny Ainge would've let our BEST player walk? THEN what?

Let's not fool ourselves into believing that GH would've still came...or at least "I" don't believe so....especially if he could've guessed how good Donovan Mitchell was going to be?

I think your judgment is being clouded by the bitterness you admitted you still harbor.  At least that is my impression.

Re: Intriguing Question To Ask Related To "Isaiah Chaos Theory" Thread
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2018, 03:17:02 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Would Gordon Hayward STILL have chosen BOS? Perhaps, but it would've been even more questionable going to a team that basically achieved the SAME result as his FORMER team (Utah). Both Utah and BOS would've been 2nd round losers in this scenario.

I'm pretty confident Gordon Hayward comes to Boston regardless of what happened in last season's playoffs.  The main draw for him was always Brad Stevens, that seemed to far outweigh any other factor.


Quote
If SPORTS - especially nowadays - teaches us LESSONS then perhaps we should NOT give it our ALL.........OR pick and choose our spots?

I mean, when has this ever not been the case in terms of managing your own health?  I've always found the idea of playing through injury that can cause long-term further damage to your health to be misplaced bravado.  You should always do what is in your own best interest when it comes to your health.

What was Ainge supposed to do, just go ahead and give IT the contract he wanted out of gratitude?  That would be a terrible decision for the best interest of the team.

Nope. Do NOT give "The limping, former corpse called Isaiah" ANY contract. Let his injured behind walk.

Let your BEST player walk out the door because they couldn't (or wouldn't) negotiate a decent contract for BOTH parties.

I'm certain IT - being that he loved BOS - could've been negotiated into something other than a Brinks.

LOL do we REALLY believe that Danny Ainge would've let our BEST player walk? THEN what?

Let's not fool ourselves into believing that GH would've still came...or at least "I" don't believe so....especially if he could've guessed how good Donovan Mitchell was going to be?

It's certainly interesting to wonder what would have happened in the Hayward pursuit if the C's shut down Isaiah (or Isaiah shut himself down) and the C's lost in the 2nd round to Washington.

That said, it looks like everyone in the C's organization, as well as Hayward back in June/July, knew Isaiah had a serious hip injury and that he'd miss significant time. I really don't think they would just lie and tell Hayward that Isaiah's hip wasn't as bad and that he'd be back ASAP. Frankly, I think that'd be a bigger factor to Hayward than seeing Boston bounced in the 1st or 2nd round (also considering it seems Isaiah was injured during those series as well)

And it's not like Hayward knew back in July that the C's would make the Kyrie trade. Hell, NO ONE thought that was even a possibility back in July, yet it became a reality very late in August.

Again, not disagreeing entirely with your point, but just some interesting points I thought I'd add.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Intriguing Question To Ask Related To "Isaiah Chaos Theory" Thread
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2018, 03:20:09 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Would Gordon Hayward STILL have chosen BOS? Perhaps, but it would've been even more questionable going to a team that basically achieved the SAME result as his FORMER team (Utah). Both Utah and BOS would've been 2nd round losers in this scenario.

I'm pretty confident Gordon Hayward comes to Boston regardless of what happened in last season's playoffs.  The main draw for him was always Brad Stevens, that seemed to far outweigh any other factor.


Quote
If SPORTS - especially nowadays - teaches us LESSONS then perhaps we should NOT give it our ALL.........OR pick and choose our spots?

I mean, when has this ever not been the case in terms of managing your own health?  I've always found the idea of playing through injury that can cause long-term further damage to your health to be misplaced bravado.  You should always do what is in your own best interest when it comes to your health.

What was Ainge supposed to do, just go ahead and give IT the contract he wanted out of gratitude?  That would be a terrible decision for the best interest of the team.

Nope. Do NOT give "The limping, former corpse called Isaiah" ANY contract. Let his injured behind walk.

Let your BEST player walk out the door because they couldn't (or wouldn't) negotiate a decent contract for BOTH parties.

I'm certain IT - being that he loved BOS - could've been negotiated into something other than a Brinks.

LOL do we REALLY believe that Danny Ainge would've let our BEST player walk? THEN what?

Let's not fool ourselves into believing that GH would've still came...or at least "I" don't believe so....especially if he could've guessed how good Donovan Mitchell was going to be?

I think your judgment is being clouded by the bitterness you admitted you still harbor.  At least that is my impression.

KG - There is SOME truth to that, admittedly.

But at the HEART of it all The Boston Celtics - which have thrived on LOYALTY and TRADITION more than perhaps ANY NBA franchise traded an unwilling partner to CLE for a shiny new toy.

We all wax poetic at how great things are but we all know some things could've/should've been handled differently.

Re: Intriguing Question To Ask Related To "Isaiah Chaos Theory" Thread
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2018, 03:27:18 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Would Gordon Hayward STILL have chosen BOS? Perhaps, but it would've been even more questionable going to a team that basically achieved the SAME result as his FORMER team (Utah). Both Utah and BOS would've been 2nd round losers in this scenario.

I'm pretty confident Gordon Hayward comes to Boston regardless of what happened in last season's playoffs.  The main draw for him was always Brad Stevens, that seemed to far outweigh any other factor.


Quote
If SPORTS - especially nowadays - teaches us LESSONS then perhaps we should NOT give it our ALL.........OR pick and choose our spots?

I mean, when has this ever not been the case in terms of managing your own health?  I've always found the idea of playing through injury that can cause long-term further damage to your health to be misplaced bravado.  You should always do what is in your own best interest when it comes to your health.

What was Ainge supposed to do, just go ahead and give IT the contract he wanted out of gratitude?  That would be a terrible decision for the best interest of the team.

Nope. Do NOT give "The limping, former corpse called Isaiah" ANY contract. Let his injured behind walk.

Let your BEST player walk out the door because they couldn't (or wouldn't) negotiate a decent contract for BOTH parties.

I'm certain IT - being that he loved BOS - could've been negotiated into something other than a Brinks.

LOL do we REALLY believe that Danny Ainge would've let our BEST player walk? THEN what?

Let's not fool ourselves into believing that GH would've still came...or at least "I" don't believe so....especially if he could've guessed how good Donovan Mitchell was going to be?

I think your judgment is being clouded by the bitterness you admitted you still harbor.  At least that is my impression.

KG - There is SOME truth to that, admittedly.

But at the HEART of it all The Boston Celtics - which have thrived on LOYALTY and TRADITION more than perhaps ANY NBA franchise traded an unwilling partner to CLE for a shiny new toy.

We all wax poetic at how great things are but we all know some things could've/should've been handled differently.

I admit Ainge is not a guy who exudes much loyalty, at least not to the individual players.  But he's pretty much always been this way since the moment he took over the team.

Whether or not that is the right way to go about things is a matter of opinion, but it's hard to argue with the results.