Horford

[mctyson]

It does come down to the Salary with Horford

Due to his max salary , it is going to cause issues to retain Marcus Smart next season and beyond. 

It will cause problems to retain Terry Rozier the year after as well


IF Horford lived up to his salary ....it would be less painful to let one or both of these key role players to walk.

lol @ "living up" to his salary.  what the heck does that mean?

and no, it would not make it any less tough to let Smart or Rozier go if Horford was averaging a few more points and rebounds per game, or whatever you consider "living up" to be

[DefenseWinsChamps]

It does come down to the Salary with Horford

Due to his max salary , it is going to cause issues to retain Marcus Smart next season and beyond. 

It will cause problems to retain Terry Rozier the year after as well


IF Horford lived up to his salary ....it would be less painful to let one or both of these key role players to walk.

But thats not the case.   Horford can't makeup for even the loss of Smart as it was witnessed prior to the all star break

If it came down to keeping Smart at 15 million a season, saving 15 million vs keeping Horford.  I'm taking the 1st option

No doubt neither Rozier or Smart would have developed or had the chance to make "winning plays" had not Horford raised this team to a top team in the East.

The fact that we have Brown, Tatum, and Hayward in front of Smart makes Smart expendable. What we don't have a lot of is skilled big men.

[RodyTur10]

If you are so dissatisfied with Horford (and his "poor" 13-7-5 line in ratio with his 30m salary),
how come I never see some ecstatic T-Roz thread backed up by the same logic where he extremely outplayed his money - scoring more than 2 ppg per mil of salary).

I don't  care about his stat line. But I expect max players to be able to carry you on their back when you struggle to win games -- and Al Horford is the least impactful max player in this respect that I've seen recently.

Anyone who thinks he is the least impactful max player in the NBA doesn't really get how smart players make an impact on a basketball game.

Andrew Wiggins? Paul Milsap? Blake Griffin? Kyle Lowry? Mike Conley? Jrue Holliday? Otto Porter? Andre Drummond? Hassan Whiteside? Steven Adams? Chandler Parsons? Harrison Barnes? Nic Batum?

That's 13 players that are max or near max players. I'll take Horford's impact over all of them.

Ok. "One of the least impactful", is that better?

Also, it's funny you'd put Batum on this list, given that he's essentially the SF version of Al Horford.

That list was taken from https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

That was 13 of the top 40. Bosh and Hayward were two others on this list. Reddick, Anthony, Howard, Gasol, Jordan, Kanter, and Gallinari were also part of the top 20 that i wouldn't take over Horford.

That's 22 of the top 40 paid players in the NBA that I wouldn't take before Horford. Even if you would take a couple of those guys (and I'd argue you shouldn't), at worst, that makes him an above average (by definition 22 of 40 is above average) value for his contract.

That isn't talking about other guys: Aldridge, DeRozan, McCullom, Love, and Oladipo.

He is not one of the worst big (or max) contracts in the NBA. Obviously, it'd be amazing to have a Lebron James, or Curry, or Durant with every max contract. Not only is that not realistic, but it isn't necessary when building a team, especially when you have multiple future max contracts being developed on your team on rookie contracts.

Horford is good value, especially when you consider his history at making guards that play next to him more efficient (Teague, Shroeder, Thomas, Irving, and Rozier).

I have taken all the 40 players that earn over $20 million this season and put them into groups on the basis of value to salary. For some players longterm contracts are a good thing for others it's punishing the team. I didn't account for team fit. Some players may not have great production but can actually be very valuable for their respective teams.

Of course the star players end on top, but Westbrook for instance is risky (he becomes 30 this year and his huge contract goes on till he's 33). The list is naturally subjective, but I tried my best. I have Horford a little lower than you do, but if Hayward gets back at his top level (which I assumed) he ranks pretty high. In order:

Great contracts: Anthony Davis, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kevin Durant, LeBron James, James Harden, Rudy Gobert, Victor Oladipo, Damian Lillard

Good contracts: Andre Drummond, Chris Paul, Kevin Love, DeMar DeRozan, Stephen Curry, Bradley Beal, Gordon Hayward, DeAndre Jordan

Average contracts: C.J. McCollum, Steven Adams, Russell Westbrook, Otto Porter, Jrue Holiday, Hassan Whiteside, LaMarcus Aldridge, Harrison Barnes

Bad contracts: Paul Millsap, Enes Kanter, Dwight Howard, Kyle Lowry, Al Horford, J.J. Redick, Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez

Horrible contracts: Danilo Gallinari, Blake Griffin, Carmelo Anthony, Mike Conley, Serge Ibaka, Nicolas Batum, Chris Bosh, Chandler Parsons

[KGs Knee]

If you are so dissatisfied with Horford (and his "poor" 13-7-5 line in ratio with his 30m salary),
how come I never see some ecstatic T-Roz thread backed up by the same logic where he extremely outplayed his money - scoring more than 2 ppg per mil of salary).

I don't  care about his stat line. But I expect max players to be able to carry you on their back when you struggle to win games -- and Al Horford is the least impactful max player in this respect that I've seen recently.

Anyone who thinks he is the least impactful max player in the NBA doesn't really get how smart players make an impact on a basketball game.

Andrew Wiggins? Paul Milsap? Blake Griffin? Kyle Lowry? Mike Conley? Jrue Holliday? Otto Porter? Andre Drummond? Hassan Whiteside? Steven Adams? Chandler Parsons? Harrison Barnes? Nic Batum?

That's 13 players that are max or near max players. I'll take Horford's impact over all of them.

Ok. "One of the least impactful", is that better?

Also, it's funny you'd put Batum on this list, given that he's essentially the SF version of Al Horford.

That list was taken from https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

That was 13 of the top 40. Bosh and Hayward were two others on this list. Reddick, Anthony, Howard, Gasol, Jordan, Kanter, and Gallinari were also part of the top 20 that i wouldn't take over Horford.

That's 22 of the top 40 paid players in the NBA that I wouldn't take before Horford. Even if you would take a couple of those guys (and I'd argue you shouldn't), at worst, that makes him an above average (by definition 22 of 40 is above average) value for his contract.

That isn't talking about other guys: Aldridge, DeRozan, McCullom, Love, and Oladipo.

He is not one of the worst big (or max) contracts in the NBA. Obviously, it'd be amazing to have a Lebron James, or Curry, or Durant with every max contract. Not only is that not realistic, but it isn't necessary when building a team, especially when you have multiple future max contracts being developed on your team on rookie contracts.

Horford is good value, especially when you consider his history at making guards that play next to him more efficient (Teague, Shroeder, Thomas, Irving, and Rozier).

I have taken all the 40 players that earn over $20 million this season and put them into groups on the basis of value to salary. For some players longterm contracts are a good thing for others it's punishing the team. I didn't account for team fit. Some players may not have great production but can actually be very valuable for their respective teams.

Of course the star players end on top, but Westbrook for instance is risky (he becomes 30 this year and his huge contract goes on till he's 33). The list is naturally subjective, but I tried my best. I have Horford a little lower than you do, but if Hayward gets back at his top level (which I assumed) he ranks pretty high. In order:

Great contracts: Anthony Davis, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kevin Durant, LeBron James, James Harden, Rudy Gobert, Victor Oladipo, Damian Lillard

Good contracts: Andre Drummond, Chris Paul, Kevin Love, DeMar DeRozan, Stephen Curry, Bradley Beal, Gordon Hayward, DeAndre Jordan

Average contracts: C.J. McCollum, Steven Adams, Russell Westbrook, Otto Porter, Jrue Holiday, Hassan Whiteside, LaMarcus Aldridge, Harrison Barnes

Bad contracts: Paul Millsap, Enes Kanter, Dwight Howard, Kyle Lowry, Al Horford, J.J. Redick, Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez

Horrible contracts: Danilo Gallinari, Blake Griffin, Carmelo Anthony, Mike Conley, Serge Ibaka, Nicolas Batum, Chris Bosh, Chandler Parsons

The fact that you have Drummond and Jordan in the "good" category and Horford in the "bad" category is ridiculous. Horford is a demonstrably better player than either one of them.

Just goes to show people will say anything, no matter how wrong, just to prove some sort of point.

[Moranis]

If you are so dissatisfied with Horford (and his "poor" 13-7-5 line in ratio with his 30m salary),
how come I never see some ecstatic T-Roz thread backed up by the same logic where he extremely outplayed his money - scoring more than 2 ppg per mil of salary).

I don't  care about his stat line. But I expect max players to be able to carry you on their back when you struggle to win games -- and Al Horford is the least impactful max player in this respect that I've seen recently.

Anyone who thinks he is the least impactful max player in the NBA doesn't really get how smart players make an impact on a basketball game.

Andrew Wiggins? Paul Milsap? Blake Griffin? Kyle Lowry? Mike Conley? Jrue Holliday? Otto Porter? Andre Drummond? Hassan Whiteside? Steven Adams? Chandler Parsons? Harrison Barnes? Nic Batum?

That's 13 players that are max or near max players. I'll take Horford's impact over all of them.

Ok. "One of the least impactful", is that better?

Also, it's funny you'd put Batum on this list, given that he's essentially the SF version of Al Horford.

That list was taken from https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

That was 13 of the top 40. Bosh and Hayward were two others on this list. Reddick, Anthony, Howard, Gasol, Jordan, Kanter, and Gallinari were also part of the top 20 that i wouldn't take over Horford.

That's 22 of the top 40 paid players in the NBA that I wouldn't take before Horford. Even if you would take a couple of those guys (and I'd argue you shouldn't), at worst, that makes him an above average (by definition 22 of 40 is above average) value for his contract.

That isn't talking about other guys: Aldridge, DeRozan, McCullom, Love, and Oladipo.

He is not one of the worst big (or max) contracts in the NBA. Obviously, it'd be amazing to have a Lebron James, or Curry, or Durant with every max contract. Not only is that not realistic, but it isn't necessary when building a team, especially when you have multiple future max contracts being developed on your team on rookie contracts.

Horford is good value, especially when you consider his history at making guards that play next to him more efficient (Teague, Shroeder, Thomas, Irving, and Rozier).

I have taken all the 40 players that earn over $20 million this season and put them into groups on the basis of value to salary. For some players longterm contracts are a good thing for others it's punishing the team. I didn't account for team fit. Some players may not have great production but can actually be very valuable for their respective teams.

Of course the star players end on top, but Westbrook for instance is risky (he becomes 30 this year and his huge contract goes on till he's 33). The list is naturally subjective, but I tried my best. I have Horford a little lower than you do, but if Hayward gets back at his top level (which I assumed) he ranks pretty high. In order:

Great contracts: Anthony Davis, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kevin Durant, LeBron James, James Harden, Rudy Gobert, Victor Oladipo, Damian Lillard

Good contracts: Andre Drummond, Chris Paul, Kevin Love, DeMar DeRozan, Stephen Curry, Bradley Beal, Gordon Hayward, DeAndre Jordan

Average contracts: C.J. McCollum, Steven Adams, Russell Westbrook, Otto Porter, Jrue Holiday, Hassan Whiteside, LaMarcus Aldridge, Harrison Barnes

Bad contracts: Paul Millsap, Enes Kanter, Dwight Howard, Kyle Lowry, Al Horford, J.J. Redick, Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez

Horrible contracts: Danilo Gallinari, Blake Griffin, Carmelo Anthony, Mike Conley, Serge Ibaka, Nicolas Batum, Chris Bosh, Chandler Parsons

The fact that you have Drummond and Jordan in the "good" category and Horford in the "bad" category is ridiculous. Horford is a demonstrably better player than either one of them.

Just goes to show people will say anything, no matter how wrong, just to prove some sort of point.

they make a lot less than Horford does though.

[Roy H.]

If you are so dissatisfied with Horford (and his "poor" 13-7-5 line in ratio with his 30m salary),
how come I never see some ecstatic T-Roz thread backed up by the same logic where he extremely outplayed his money - scoring more than 2 ppg per mil of salary).

I don't  care about his stat line. But I expect max players to be able to carry you on their back when you struggle to win games -- and Al Horford is the least impactful max player in this respect that I've seen recently.

Anyone who thinks he is the least impactful max player in the NBA doesn't really get how smart players make an impact on a basketball game.

Andrew Wiggins? Paul Milsap? Blake Griffin? Kyle Lowry? Mike Conley? Jrue Holliday? Otto Porter? Andre Drummond? Hassan Whiteside? Steven Adams? Chandler Parsons? Harrison Barnes? Nic Batum?

That's 13 players that are max or near max players. I'll take Horford's impact over all of them.

Ok. "One of the least impactful", is that better?

Also, it's funny you'd put Batum on this list, given that he's essentially the SF version of Al Horford.

That list was taken from https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

That was 13 of the top 40. Bosh and Hayward were two others on this list. Reddick, Anthony, Howard, Gasol, Jordan, Kanter, and Gallinari were also part of the top 20 that i wouldn't take over Horford.

That's 22 of the top 40 paid players in the NBA that I wouldn't take before Horford. Even if you would take a couple of those guys (and I'd argue you shouldn't), at worst, that makes him an above average (by definition 22 of 40 is above average) value for his contract.

That isn't talking about other guys: Aldridge, DeRozan, McCullom, Love, and Oladipo.

He is not one of the worst big (or max) contracts in the NBA. Obviously, it'd be amazing to have a Lebron James, or Curry, or Durant with every max contract. Not only is that not realistic, but it isn't necessary when building a team, especially when you have multiple future max contracts being developed on your team on rookie contracts.

Horford is good value, especially when you consider his history at making guards that play next to him more efficient (Teague, Shroeder, Thomas, Irving, and Rozier).

I have taken all the 40 players that earn over $20 million this season and put them into groups on the basis of value to salary. For some players longterm contracts are a good thing for others it's punishing the team. I didn't account for team fit. Some players may not have great production but can actually be very valuable for their respective teams.

Of course the star players end on top, but Westbrook for instance is risky (he becomes 30 this year and his huge contract goes on till he's 33). The list is naturally subjective, but I tried my best. I have Horford a little lower than you do, but if Hayward gets back at his top level (which I assumed) he ranks pretty high. In order:

Great contracts: Anthony Davis, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kevin Durant, LeBron James, James Harden, Rudy Gobert, Victor Oladipo, Damian Lillard

Good contracts: Andre Drummond, Chris Paul, Kevin Love, DeMar DeRozan, Stephen Curry, Bradley Beal, Gordon Hayward, DeAndre Jordan

Average contracts: C.J. McCollum, Steven Adams, Russell Westbrook, Otto Porter, Jrue Holiday, Hassan Whiteside, LaMarcus Aldridge, Harrison Barnes

Bad contracts: Paul Millsap, Enes Kanter, Dwight Howard, Kyle Lowry, Al Horford, J.J. Redick, Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez

Horrible contracts: Danilo Gallinari, Blake Griffin, Carmelo Anthony, Mike Conley, Serge Ibaka, Nicolas Batum, Chris Bosh, Chandler Parsons

The fact that you have Drummond and Jordan in the "good" category and Horford in the "bad" category is ridiculous. Horford is a demonstrably better player than either one of them.

Just goes to show people will say anything, no matter how wrong, just to prove some sort of point.

they make a lot less than Horford does though.

Drummond at $24 million or Horford at $28 million, I’m taking Horford.

[nickagneta]

Wondering where the Horford hate will be after tonight?

[green_bballers13]

Wondering where the Horford hate will be after tonight?

Horford only scored 13 points!

I'd rather have Deandre Jordan on $4m less per year, despite the fact that he can't finish a close game!

[Ilikesports17]

Wondering where the Horford hate will be after tonight?

I don't think the Horford hate makes too much sense in the first place, but no one's opinion should be swayed in a material way by whatever you call what just happened in the United Center.

[nickagneta]

Wondering where the Horford hate will be after tonight?

Horford only scored 13 points!

I'd rather have Deandre Jordan on $4m less per year, despite the fact that he can't finish a close game!

Ummm...Horford played unreal. In 22 minutes he had 13/7/2/1/1 with a +31. Looking at the box score and judging his performance on 13 points is part of the problem with people claiming how overpaid Horford is. He does so much more.

[green_bballers13]

Wondering where the Horford hate will be after tonight?

Horford only scored 13 points!

I'd rather have Deandre Jordan on $4m less per year, despite the fact that he can't finish a close game!

Ummm...Horford played unreal. In 22 minutes he had 13/7/2/1/1 with a +31. Looking at the box score and judging his performance on 13 points is part of the problem with people claiming how overpaid Horford is. He does so much more.

I'm kidding. I was poking fun at the previous Deandre Jordan comment.

I'm on team Horford.

[Ilikesports17]

Wondering where the Horford hate will be after tonight?

Horford only scored 13 points!

I'd rather have Deandre Jordan on $4m less per year, despite the fact that he can't finish a close game!

Ummm...Horford played unreal. In 22 minutes he had 13/7/2/1/1 with a +31. Looking at the box score and judging his performance on 13 points is part of the problem with people claiming how overpaid Horford is. He does so much more.

Im glad he played well against a Bulls team desperately trying to lose. If we are making one game judgements then Im reading way further into the goose egg he put up against Houston.

[nickagneta]

Wondering where the Horford hate will be after tonight?

Horford only scored 13 points!

I'd rather have Deandre Jordan on $4m less per year, despite the fact that he can't finish a close game!

Ummm...Horford played unreal. In 22 minutes he had 13/7/2/1/1 with a +31. Looking at the box score and judging his performance on 13 points is part of the problem with people claiming how overpaid Horford is. He does so much more.

Im glad he played well against a Bulls team desperately trying to lose. If we are making one game judgements then Im reading way further into the goose egg he put up against Houston.

Well in that case I am judging him by either the 12/6/7+25 series clinching game against Chicago or the 15/6/5+14 series clinching game versus Washington. You know, showing up big when the games count most.

[green_bballers13]

I want the Celtics to rest Horford going forward, especially against the bottom 1/2 of the league. He's our oldest good player. There's plenty of options now sot that Horford only needs to play 20 min/gme the rest of the way: Baynes/Monroe/Morris/Theis/Yabu/Semi

The #1 spot would be great, but I'd rather have Kyrie and Horford well rested and healthy. Like last year, I don't see the Celtics blowing out any team in the playoffs. I could see the Celtics playing another 20+ games, so Al's going to need his legs.

[MJohnnyboy]

Horford proved in the playoffs last year that he's worth every penny. His elite shooting and defense played a huge role in getting to the ECF. He'll never put up numbers that will make people think he deserves the max, but he's one of the very few bigs in this league that checks off every box in Brad Stevens' gameplan for his bigs. That is what makes him worth the money.

I could give a crap about what numbers he puts in the box score. If Horford replicates his production in last years playoffs, then there should be no complaints.