Horford

[JHTruth]

I understand OPs logic, but from a statistical standpoint, 1 minute from Horford will generally be better than 1 minute from Monroe. We have a ton of data to support this. You always go with your stars when it counts, regardless of past performance. Now, it’s a completely different story if the group on the floor is streaking. Finish the streak, then you Put your stars out there.

Not to mention, Greg Monroe played the last 5 minutes of the third and first 6 minutes of the fourth. There is just no way Stevens could have just left him in the game as he would have been completely gassed. And let's face it, Monroe wasn't keeping Capella off the boards any better than Horford or Baynes was.

I would have gone back to Baynes. Just can't play small like that. Al just isn't tough and strong enough to be a C

[Donoghus]

It amazes me how much crap some people on these boards give Horford.

Totally hung up on the guy. 

[Roy H.]

he got outworked by Capela last night.  I mean these days, is there anyone who isn't outworking Horford around the basket?   

aren't you tired of him being a passenger on the team? 

Welp, he’s 6th among all NBA starters in FG% allowed and 4th in FG% differential.  For somebody who is allegedly just going through the motions, that’s impressive.

[KGs Knee]

After watching that game, there's just no way I can see blaming that loss on Horford. He didn't have his best game but neither did Smart, Kyrie or Baynes. Kyrie missing that late layup. No one able to contain Capella on the boards, including Moose. Horrid defense on Gordon by all the guards.

The refs were atrocious. Horrible techs and horrible calls. Not giving the Celtics a timeout when the bench and Horford are calling for one when he was on the ground. The foul on Brown that was offensive on Harden that led to a tech. The delay of game tech. The no call offensive on Harden when he barrelled over someone to start the game. Just a bad game by the refs.

And after all those bad calls and less than stellar play from 4 players, this team was still in it to the end against the best team in basketball, who are hot as hell and playing at home. I am not blaming this loss on anyone. In fact, I got nothing but praise for this team after the way they played last night. It was a great, playoff intensity game and both teams showed up and played it just that way.

stop blaming the refs

this has to stop from all angles

At the end of the day the bad calls cancels out....Refs need a break. 

Another thing that needs to stop is the "protection" of this overpaid glorified role player

he got outworked by Capela last night.  I mean these days, is there anyone who isn't outworking Horford around the basket?   

aren't you tired of him being a passenger on the team?  When is he going to take over when Kyrie for example is having an off night?   or is double teamed?   His boxing out urgency is embarrassing to watch. 

Guess you missed that game winner against Portland.  Or the huge basket he made at the tail end of the last game vs the Rockets.

I'll never understand people that care to only focus on someone's bad moments while ignoring their good moments.  It's not very rational.

[jpotter33]

As is usually the case, the truth of the matter lies in between the extremes stated in this thread.

It’s simply a fact that can be backed up statistically that Al was garbage last night - at least offensively, defensively he was solid. His subpar passing, playmaking, and decision-making did not make up for his lackluster scoring last night, and he was fundamental in us losing the game, along with Kyrie to a lesser extent with his subpar defensive effort. And Al has been about this bad ever since the ASB, which kind of makes me want to rest him down the stretch since it seems unlikely we’ll catch Toronto.

However, with that being said, I still think Al is right there with Kyrie as our most important player. He’s fundamental to both our offense and defense, and he’s a major reason we’re as good as we are.

I’m not sure what’s going on with him, but we need him to step up in the stretch run and to get back to making good decisions offensively.

[Tr1boy]

It amazes me how much crap some people on these boards give Horford.

Totally hung up on the guy.

his stat line last night

31 min
10 pts
4-12 fg
6 reb
3 assist

Tell me for a guy that makes 30 million a year, do you find this acceptable?? 

[Tr1boy]

As is usually the case, the truth of the matter lies in between the extremes stated in this thread.

It’s simply a fact that can be backed up statistically that Al was garbage last night - at least offensively, defensively he was solid. His subpar passing, playmaking, and decision-making did not make up for his lackluster scoring last night, and he was fundamental in us losing the game, along with Kyrie to a lesser extent with his subpar defensive effort. And Al has been about this bad ever since the ASB, which kind of makes me want to rest him down the stretch since it seems unlikely we’ll catch Toronto.

However, with that being said, I still think Al is right there with Kyrie as our most important player. He’s fundamental to both our offense and defense, and he’s a major reason we’re as good as we are.

I’m not sure what’s going on with him, but we need him to step up in the stretch run and to get back to making good decisions offensively.

He just has off game after off game....especially when he needs to step up

For me what is the most embarrassing thing to watch is his lack of urgency to box out.   Pretty much zero offensive rebounds, put backs.  The "extra" is non existent.   And in turn guys that give the "extra" are outworking him in these details

30 million dollars a year (highest paid player) to play a technically sound game is not enough.   He needs to carry the team to wins.  A few games this season he has done this.  But when Kyrie in on the floor or someone else is having a decent game, he just turns off the "urgency".   Guys I will stay back,  go get the bucket.    Guys i'm playing general defense,  someone go grab that tough rebound

Anti KG stuff here

[drogbagarnett]

It’s hard to put the blame on one guy. Smart made a bunch of bad decisions, Kyrie shot poorly and was a matador on defense, etc.

I do not agree with this take.
One guy CAN cost you a game.
Moose was +23 in 19 min. Houston had no answers for him.
We can argue one more crunch time min of Moose and we win the game.
Horford brought nothing on Defense to warrant playing him in crunch time over Moose who was killing it offensively and at least trying defensively...
All those other players you cited did make some mistakes here and there but their overall contributions were positive! No team would score 200 or 300 points in a game and habe 15 flawless players...
We are talking about overall contribution and the culprit is clearly Horford.
He should have come to Coach Stevens and said i dont have it today you should play moose who is killing it and Houston has NO answers for him.
Has a leader seeing your teamates bust their ass off for an important game only for you to give it away should be a wake up call for you otherwise he will end up loosing their trust and respect.
One more min of Moose instead of horford and we would have won the game.
Lets call it as it is. Horford cost us the game...

Plays made in the 1st minute, or the 25th minute, are just as important as those in the 48th. Horford’s mistakes look bad, but ultimately that bad pass out of the scramble is no worse than the many other bad plays..

I’m not going to fault a coach for playing his elite defender and passer down the stretch. Horford has shown time and Time again that he can close games. I mean, Rozier outplayed Kyrie. Should we have just sat our starters and let the bench close out the game?  I think that guys like Horford and Kyrie have shown the ability to close, and should be in there even when struggling.

Then you should brace for more losses where we should have won.
I have seen Toronto keep their highest performing bench players in the game to close out in crunch time.
I do understand your point of sticking to your stars but sometimes coaches should be wise enough to understand someone doesnt have it today (happens to all of us, even M. Jordan) and i have this bench player killing it and they have NO one to stop him... if you want a W u play Monroe 1 or 2 more minutes...

[GreenWarrior]

I don't see how anyone can say "sure he had a bad game on offense but did you see him on defense?" and expect fans not to say "he aint cutting it". we're paying for a guy that's supposed to play both ends of the court, i'd say we have a right to judge.

with that said, my hope is these guys(kyrie, horford) are going to be better and more solid in the playoffs. I don't think they're coasting but veteran players with playoff experience tend to play smart and not hard in the reg. season.

this loss is not the end of the world,(even before the Hayward injury) not sure what some are expecting from this team this yr.? they really shouldn't be one of the top teams this yr. with the young guys playing as much as they are. winning like this doesn't happen in the NBA.

[Roy H.]

I don't see how anyone can say "sure he had a bad game on offense but did you see him on defense?" and expect fans not to say "he aint cutting it".

There’s a difference between saying “he’s not cutting it” and “he cost us the game”.

If you’re going to blame one guy for losing, you need to look at both sides of the ball to see how he contributed.

Horford was bad on offense, but really good on defense. There were other players - or at least one - who were bad on both ends.  Blame falls on nobody’s shoulders individually.

[BitterJim]

It amazes me how much crap some people on these boards give Horford.

Totally hung up on the guy.

his stat line last night

31 min
10 pts
4-12 fg
6 reb
3 assist

Tell me for a guy that makes 30 million a year, do you find this acceptable??

Every player has bad games. Look at Lebron's worst game this season. Is that the kind of production you expect from a $30 million/year player? No. But that doesn't mean he's overpaid

[bello_man09]

can we trade him for Aldridge..he's so much better offensively but i still love Al's defense.. 

[green_bballers13]

It amazes me how much crap some people on these boards give Horford.

Totally hung up on the guy.

his stat line last night

31 min
10 pts
4-12 fg
6 reb
3 assist

Tell me for a guy that makes 30 million a year, do you find this acceptable??

Every player has bad games. Look at Lebron's worst game this season. Is that the kind of production you expect from a $30 million/year player? No. But that doesn't mean he's overpaid

Lebron is definitely not the guy to bring up. His stats are very good.

Draymond and Horford might be the best two players with pedestrian stats. Both are valuable players, regardless of their game to game stats.

Danny signed Horford at the top of the market as the best available stretch big man. The Celtics needed a quality big, and quality players often get overpaid. His money shouldn't concern us all that much- it is basically a sunk cost at this point. I'm more concerned about his production and Celtic wins. 

I have no doubt that Danny would trade Horford in a package deal if he could, and I doubt that he will live out his Celtics contract in Boston.

[Billz401]

I don't see how anyone can say "sure he had a bad game on offense but did you see him on defense?" and expect fans not to say "he aint cutting it".

There’s a difference between saying “he’s not cutting it” and “he cost us the game”.

If you’re going to blame one guy for losing, you need to look at both sides of the ball to see how he contributed.

Horford was bad on offense, but really good on defense. There were other players - or at least one - who were bad on both ends.  Blame falls on nobody’s shoulders individually.

He was pretty mediocre on defense too.. plenty of drives where he just let a smaller guy right into the paint and lay it up half the time not even contesting on harden(maybe scared of the phantom foul?). His most valuable asset on defense is his ability to switch and not get burnt by smaller guys, he didnt do too well in that department last night. And only 2 freaking defensive rebounds... cmon al we need more from you than that!

[Neurotic Guy]

Horford (IMO) is a high quality player, but not a max player.  Therefore, Danny has given one of his precious maxes to the wrong guy.  The impact may not be that great in the long run (especially if Brown and Tatum to continue to outplay their salary numbers), and I doubt Hayward signs here if not for the way the C's looked last season (Horford a big reason).