Horford

[KGs Knee]

Talk to me when the playoffs roll around.

Until then it's all just pointless hand-wringing over minor up and downs.

[KGBirdBias]

The last 5 minutes of that game were atrocious for the Celtics and the refs just didn't want the Celtics to win that game as well.

Kyrie has to realize when a great fantastic shot may not be better than running offense and getting a solid shot. I'm tired of Horford but I already know he's just a role player at this point. The guy can't get a defensive rebound to save his life. He passes when he' gets small guys on him instead of pounding them in the paint. Horford plays 6'5 instead of 6'10...but I'm used to it.

I think we may have found a bench. The last few games our bench has played great. Getting 50+ bench points is nice to see.

We had a chance to hold on and win the game but we need to learn that we can't afford to get sloppy on offense and get empty possessions. We had so many careless, unforced turnovers throughout the game, I was just shaking my head. The 5-0 swing lost it for us...Rozier gets rebound taken, Ariza hits 3 and then Kyrie gets it stolen and Ariza goes for layup...game over.

[celticinorlando]

Horford has been really bad since the All Star Break. Just was bad down the stretch missing several times and losing the ball and not getting a TO

If you're asleep every time the Celtics are on defense, sure.

If you guys want to criticize Al on offense the last few games I'm here for that but pay attention to defense for once in your life.  You watch the best defensive team in the NBA.

He has been bad offensively. Better?

[Smitty77]

It’s hard to put the blame on one guy. Smart made a bunch of bad decisions, Kyrie shot poorly and was a matador on defense, etc.

Totally agree Roy!!  I was far more upset with Kyrie than Al.  I am MORE concerned that Al has really played below his usual level since the All-Star break which has been mentioned by several others on this board.  Kyrie was on fire in the 4 games post All-Star Game, UNTIL this one.

More concerned about Al.

Smitty77

The discussion, and my comment, was aimed at last night. Horford didn’t single-handedly lose that game. I mean, Kyrie’s lazy matador And-1 he gave up to Ariza accounts for the margin of victory. If either Kyrie or Horford play just a bit better, we probably win by 4 to 6 points.

I am in NO way arguing with you.  I am just pointing out a worrisome trend regarding Al.

Smitty77

[Roy H.]

Our bench gives us huge opportunity to make a long run in playoffs this season.

If Monroe, Rozier and Morris play like that, for sure.

[Roy H.]

The last 5 minutes of that game were atrocious for the Celtics and the refs just didn't want the Celtics to win that game as well

Yeah, those were some pretty marginal techs, especially with the amount of complaining by Harden at times.

[drogbagarnett]

It’s hard to put the blame on one guy. Smart made a bunch of bad decisions, Kyrie shot poorly and was a matador on defense, etc.

I do not agree with this take.
One guy CAN cost you a game.
Moose was +23 in 19 min. Houston had no answers for him.
We can argue one more crunch time min of Moose and we win the game.
Horford brought nothing on Defense to warrant playing him in crunch time over Moose who was killing it offensively and at least trying defensively...
All those other players you cited did make some mistakes here and there but their overall contributions were positive! No team would score 200 or 300 points in a game and habe 15 flawless players...
We are talking about overall contribution and the culprit is clearly Horford.
He should have come to Coach Stevens and said i dont have it today you should play moose who is killing it and Houston has NO answers for him.
Has a leader seeing your teamates bust their ass off for an important game only for you to give it away should be a wake up call for you otherwise he will end up loosing their trust and respect.
One more min of Moose instead of horford and we would have won the game.
Lets call it as it is. Horford cost us the game...

[Roy H.]

It’s hard to put the blame on one guy. Smart made a bunch of bad decisions, Kyrie shot poorly and was a matador on defense, etc.

I do not agree with this take.
One guy CAN cost you a game.
Moose was +23 in 19 min. Houston had no answers for him.
We can argue one more crunch time min of Moose and we win the game.
Horford brought nothing on Defense to warrant playing him in crunch time over Moose who was killing it offensively and at least trying defensively...
All those other players you cited did make some mistakes here and there but their overall contributions were positive! No team would score 200 or 300 points in a game and habe 15 flawless players...
We are talking about overall contribution and the culprit is clearly Horford.
He should have come to Coach Stevens and said i dont have it today you should play moose who is killing it and Houston has NO answers for him.
Has a leader seeing your teamates bust their ass off for an important game only for you to give it away should be a wake up call for you otherwise he will end up loosing their trust and respect.
One more min of Moose instead of horford and we would have won the game.
Lets call it as it is. Horford cost us the game...

Plays made in the 1st minute, or the 25th minute, are just as important as those in the 48th. Horford’s mistakes look bad, but ultimately that bad pass out of the scramble is no worse than the many other bad plays..

I’m not going to fault a coach for playing his elite defender and passer down the stretch. Horford has shown time and Time again that he can close games. I mean, Rozier outplayed Kyrie. Should we have just sat our starters and let the bench close out the game?  I think that guys like Horford and Kyrie have shown the ability to close, and should be in there even when struggling.

[Csfan1984]

It's been 4 years on this from Horford no use complaining about what we already know. BS does need to know when to pull him though.

[Smitty77]

It’s hard to put the blame on one guy. Smart made a bunch of bad decisions, Kyrie shot poorly and was a matador on defense, etc.

I do not agree with this take.
One guy CAN cost you a game.
Moose was +23 in 19 min. Houston had no answers for him.
We can argue one more crunch time min of Moose and we win the game.
Horford brought nothing on Defense to warrant playing him in crunch time over Moose who was killing it offensively and at least trying defensively...
All those other players you cited did make some mistakes here and there but their overall contributions were positive! No team would score 200 or 300 points in a game and habe 15 flawless players...
We are talking about overall contribution and the culprit is clearly Horford.
He should have come to Coach Stevens and said i dont have it today you should play moose who is killing it and Houston has NO answers for him.
Has a leader seeing your teamates bust their ass off for an important game only for you to give it away should be a wake up call for you otherwise he will end up loosing their trust and respect.
One more min of Moose instead of horford and we would have won the game.
Lets call it as it is. Horford cost us the game...

Plays made in the 1st minute, or the 25th minute, are just as important as those in the 48th. Horford’s mistakes look bad, but ultimately that bad pass out of the scramble is no worse than the many other bad plays..

I’m not going to fault a coach for playing his elite defender and passer down the stretch. Horford has shown time and Time again that he can close games. I mean, Rozier outplayed Kyrie. Should we have just sat our starters and let the bench close out the game?  I think that guys like Horford and Kyrie have shown the ability to close, and should be in there even when struggling.

My concern was not with JUST that play, but the entire game for Al.  Ariza drove around Horford like he was stuck in cement on many occasions last night!  Al had a PER for the game of 8 and Monroe had a PER of 24.

http://popcornmachine.net/bs?date=20180303&game=BOSHOU

 I have always been a HUGE supporter of going with the hot hand, as Chuck Daly did with perfection on the way to two World NBA Championships (back to back) and one Olympic Gold Medal.

If that means sitting an All-Star or two that might not be helping the team as much as a couple of other players on that particular night, I am ALL for that!!  I seriously doubt that I am alone in that regard.

Smitty77

[Tr1boy]

smh

he plays with little urgency

He wants everyone else to do the dirty work


I'm ok with Danny trading him this upcoming offseason for Davis (in a package)

[nickagneta]

After watching that game, there's just no way I can see blaming that loss on Horford. He didn't have his best game but neither did Smart, Kyrie or Baynes. Kyrie missing that late layup. No one able to contain Capella on the boards, including Moose. Horrid defense on Gordon by all the guards.

The refs were atrocious. Horrible techs and horrible calls. Not giving the Celtics a timeout when the bench and Horford are calling for one when he was on the ground. The foul on Brown that was offensive on Harden that led to a tech. The delay of game tech. The no call offensive on Harden when he barrelled over someone to start the game. Just a bad game by the refs.

And after all those bad calls and less than stellar play from 4 players, this team was still in it to the end against the best team in basketball, who are hot as hell and playing at home. I am not blaming this loss on anyone. In fact, I got nothing but praise for this team after the way they played last night. It was a great, playoff intensity game and both teams showed up and played it just that way.

[Erik]

I understand OPs logic, but from a statistical standpoint, 1 minute from Horford will generally be better than 1 minute from Monroe. We have a ton of data to support this. You always go with your stars when it counts, regardless of past performance. Now, it’s a completely different story if the group on the floor is streaking. Finish the streak, then you Put your stars out there.

[Tr1boy]

After watching that game, there's just no way I can see blaming that loss on Horford. He didn't have his best game but neither did Smart, Kyrie or Baynes. Kyrie missing that late layup. No one able to contain Capella on the boards, including Moose. Horrid defense on Gordon by all the guards.

The refs were atrocious. Horrible techs and horrible calls. Not giving the Celtics a timeout when the bench and Horford are calling for one when he was on the ground. The foul on Brown that was offensive on Harden that led to a tech. The delay of game tech. The no call offensive on Harden when he barrelled over someone to start the game. Just a bad game by the refs.

And after all those bad calls and less than stellar play from 4 players, this team was still in it to the end against the best team in basketball, who are hot as hell and playing at home. I am not blaming this loss on anyone. In fact, I got nothing but praise for this team after the way they played last night. It was a great, playoff intensity game and both teams showed up and played it just that way.

stop blaming the refs

this has to stop from all angles

At the end of the day the bad calls cancels out....Refs need a break. 

Another thing that needs to stop is the "protection" of this overpaid glorified role player

he got outworked by Capela last night.  I mean these days, is there anyone who isn't outworking Horford around the basket?   

aren't you tired of him being a passenger on the team?  When is he going to take over when Kyrie for example is having an off night?   or is double teamed?   His boxing out urgency is embarrassing to watch. 

[nickagneta]

I understand OPs logic, but from a statistical standpoint, 1 minute from Horford will generally be better than 1 minute from Monroe. We have a ton of data to support this. You always go with your stars when it counts, regardless of past performance. Now, it’s a completely different story if the group on the floor is streaking. Finish the streak, then you Put your stars out there.

Not to mention, Greg Monroe played the last 5 minutes of the third and first 6 minutes of the fourth. There is just no way Stevens could have just left him in the game as he would have been completely gassed. And let's face it, Monroe wasn't keeping Capella off the boards any better than Horford or Baynes was.