2018 Basketball Hall Of Fame (Congrats Dino Radja... and Ray)

[Donoghus]

Per Woj.  No Ray, apparently.

Adrian Wojnarowski

Grant Hill, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash have been notified that each will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame's Class of 2018, sources tell ESPN. Formal announcement comes at Final Four weekend.

Adrian Wojnarowski
‏
Maurice Cheeks will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame as part of the Class of 2018, league source tells ESPN. He will join Nash, Hill and Kidd as part of starry group.

[Big333223]

Per Woj.  No Ray, apparently.

Adrian Wojnarowski

Grant Hill, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash have been notified that each will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame's Class of 2018, sources tell ESPN. Formal announcement comes at Final Four weekend.

Adrian Wojnarowski
‏
Maurice Cheeks will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame as part of the Class of 2018, league source tells ESPN. He will join Nash, Hill and Kidd as part of starry group.

That seems weird. I would've thought Ray was a no-brainer first ballot guy.

[Donoghus]

Per Woj.  No Ray, apparently.

Adrian Wojnarowski

Grant Hill, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash have been notified that each will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame's Class of 2018, sources tell ESPN. Formal announcement comes at Final Four weekend.

Adrian Wojnarowski
‏
Maurice Cheeks will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame as part of the Class of 2018, league source tells ESPN. He will join Nash, Hill and Kidd as part of starry group.

That seems weird. I would've thought Ray was a no-brainer first ballot guy.

Grant Hill over Ray Allen is a headscratcher.

Also, Cheeks is borderline at best, IMO.   Moncrief continues to get screwed.  He wasn't even named a finalist this year which is ridiculous.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Per Woj.  No Ray, apparently.

Adrian Wojnarowski

Grant Hill, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash have been notified that each will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame's Class of 2018, sources tell ESPN. Formal announcement comes at Final Four weekend.

Adrian Wojnarowski
‏
Maurice Cheeks will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame as part of the Class of 2018, league source tells ESPN. He will join Nash, Hill and Kidd as part of starry group.

That seems weird. I would've thought Ray was a no-brainer first ballot guy.

My complaints about Ray's behavior notwithstanding, he's definitely a Hall of Famer. And though I think the notion of "first ballot" Hall of Famer is silly—someone is either a Hall of Famer or they're not—he should definitely be a first-ballot guy.

[bdm860]

Grant Hill over Ray Allen is a headscratcher.

Also, Cheeks is borderline at best, IMO.   Moncrief continues to get screwed.  He wasn't even named a finalist this year which is ridiculous.

I'm surprised too.

Grant Hill had a better prime, but it was so short lived ('95-'00).  Of course there was a 4-5 year stretch where Hill was the best SF in the game, while there was never a time when Ray was the best SG in the league.  Ray may have never even been top 3 (definitely not if you classify AI and McGrady as SG), was probably never considered a consistent top 10 player in the league (and if he was, it was borderline #9-#10, and only briefly).

5x All NBA for Hill vs 2x for Allen.

Hill has those 2 championships at Duke too.

But Ray had 24,500+ career points, 2 NBA rings, 10x All Star, all time 3 pointers made leader.

To be consistent though, Reggie Miller wasn't a first ballot Hall of Famer either.  The Hall voters probably view 3 point shooting as more of a niche category, need to be good at more than that to get in on the first try apparently.

[celticsclay]

Per Woj.  No Ray, apparently.

Adrian Wojnarowski

Grant Hill, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash have been notified that each will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame's Class of 2018, sources tell ESPN. Formal announcement comes at Final Four weekend.

Adrian Wojnarowski
‏
Maurice Cheeks will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame as part of the Class of 2018, league source tells ESPN. He will join Nash, Hill and Kidd as part of starry group.

That seems weird. I would've thought Ray was a no-brainer first ballot guy.

My complaints about Ray's behavior notwithstanding, he's definitely a Hall of Famer. And though I think the notion of "first ballot" Hall of Famer is silly—someone is either a Hall of Famer or they're not—he should definitely be a first-ballot guy.

I am thinking there is a chance Ray is losing the respect of his peers right now with the scorned lover routine he is doing on the talk show circuit. You really don't see that many players trying slam their ex teammates with locker room stories a few years after retiring when some of the other players are still playing and trying to make a living. Wouldn't surprise me if a few voters thought they didn't want the focus of hall of fame weekend to be Allen doing more interviews to promote his book and how the celtics screwed him (he is on front page of espn nba section again talking about that). 

[CelticSince83]

Grant Hill over Ray Allen is a headscratcher.

Also, Cheeks is borderline at best, IMO.   Moncrief continues to get screwed.  He wasn't even named a finalist this year which is ridiculous.

I'm surprised too.

Grant Hill had a better prime, but it was so short lived ('95-'00).  Of course there was a 4-5 year stretch where Hill was the best SF in the game, while there was never a time when Ray was the best SG in the league.  Ray may have never even been top 3 (definitely not if you classify AI and McGrady as SG), was probably never considered a consistent top 10 player in the league (and if he was, it was borderline #9-#10, and only briefly).

5x All NBA for Hill vs 2x for Allen.

Hill has those 2 championships at Duke too.

But Ray had 24,500+ career points, 2 NBA rings, 10x All Star, all time 3 pointers made leader.

To be consistent though, Reggie Miller wasn't a first ballot Hall of Famer either.  The Hall voters probably view 3 point shooting as more of a niche category, need to be good at more than that to get in on the first try apparently.

TP for mentioning Hill's 2 titles at Duke.  I think at times some forget it is a basketball HOF, not an NBA HOF.  Hill had a prolific college career that spanned 4 years, with 2 titles and a runner-up his senior year.  Both Hill and Allen won gold medals as well.

I'm personally glad to see Hill > Allen.  All-NBAs and MVP shares are a lot more important to me than All-Star appearances when considering HOF and Hill has Allen by a wide margin in both. 

[Donoghus]

For whatever its worth,  basketball reference had Kidd at #30 for HOF probability, Ray at #40, Nash at #61, Hill at #82, & Cheeks at #109. (Moncrief is #114).

[jbpats]

College first team all american and Big East player of the year (Back when Uconn was a force in College basketball)
2 Time NBA Champion
10 time all star
gold medal winner
#1 in all time in three pointers.

Allen got shafted.

[fairweatherfan]

Per Woj.  No Ray, apparently.

Adrian Wojnarowski

Grant Hill, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash have been notified that each will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame's Class of 2018, sources tell ESPN. Formal announcement comes at Final Four weekend.

Adrian Wojnarowski
‏
Maurice Cheeks will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame as part of the Class of 2018, league source tells ESPN. He will join Nash, Hill and Kidd as part of starry group.

That seems weird. I would've thought Ray was a no-brainer first ballot guy.

My complaints about Ray's behavior notwithstanding, he's definitely a Hall of Famer. And though I think the notion of "first ballot" Hall of Famer is silly—someone is either a Hall of Famer or they're not—he should definitely be a first-ballot guy.

I agree. It's the same weird standard applied to Reggie Miller, and more often in baseball.  Enough voters didn't deem him "first-ballot" that he couldn't clear the threshold. Next year he'll probably coast in easily.

If we're going to treat "first-ballot" as some special tier, then put it in the rules, set a higher vote threshold or whatever. This unofficial norm stuff is just silly.

[hpantazo]

So, who exactly are the voters? I find it very odd that Cheeks and Hill are in over Ray

[Roy H.]

So, who exactly are the voters? I find it very odd that Cheeks and Hill are in over Ray

I’m hoping Woj has an incomplete list.

Ray > > > Cheeks

[chicagoceltic]

The hater in me LOVES that Ray did not make it.  The basketball fan in me has no doubt that he is a HOFer.

[KGs Knee]

So, who exactly are the voters? I find it very odd that Cheeks and Hill are in over Ray

I can't really comment on Cheek's worthiness, I haven't studied his game or accomplishment enough to comment.

But Hill absolutely deserves to be ahead of Allen. Hill had a higher peak in the NBA, although certainly less overall accomplishment due to his career being cut short by injury. Hill also had a much greater college career, as well, and I have to imagine that plays a part in this.

Let's remember folks, this isn't the NBA HOF, it's the BASKETBALL HOF, which includes all levels of amateur and professional basketball. People too often seem forget that a players entire basketball career matters, not just their NBA career.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Per Woj.  No Ray, apparently.

Adrian Wojnarowski

Grant Hill, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash have been notified that each will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame's Class of 2018, sources tell ESPN. Formal announcement comes at Final Four weekend.

Adrian Wojnarowski
‏
Maurice Cheeks will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame as part of the Class of 2018, league source tells ESPN. He will join Nash, Hill and Kidd as part of starry group.

That seems weird. I would've thought Ray was a no-brainer first ballot guy.

My complaints about Ray's behavior notwithstanding, he's definitely a Hall of Famer. And though I think the notion of "first ballot" Hall of Famer is silly—someone is either a Hall of Famer or they're not—he should definitely be a first-ballot guy.

I am thinking there is a chance Ray is losing the respect of his peers right now with the scorned lover routine he is doing on the talk show circuit. You really don't see that many players trying slam their ex teammates with locker room stories a few years after retiring when some of the other players are still playing and trying to make a living. Wouldn't surprise me if a few voters thought they didn't want the focus of hall of fame weekend to be Allen doing more interviews to promote his book and how the celtics screwed him (he is on front page of espn nba section again talking about that).

I understand this aspect, but this is the kind of stuff that absolutely should not factor into a player's consideration for the Hall of Fame. A player's attitude toward his former teammates or employer(s), or a player's attitude toward the media—none of these things should have any bearing on whether a player gets into his sport's Hall of Fame. The only question that should matter is: "Is (Player X) one of the best of all time?" In Allen's case, the answer is a clear "yes," because he's absolutely one of the best long-range shooters ever.