Retire KG's jersey?

[PAOBoston]

Realistically? No he shouldnt.

But since the Cs retire pretty much everyone's number, he probably will.

I am a firm believer the Cs have made a jersey being retired less meaningful. It should be for the best of the best that had tenure here in Boston.

[nickagneta]

Having read a ton of about the early Celtics and been a fan since the early 70's Celtics, I gotta say, I have no problem with all the retired numbers. You can't unretire 1 and 2. Walter Brown and Red Auerbach are why the Celtics are here and are great. Ramsay, Sharman, and Sam Jones were transformative players, much like Cousy. Havlicek, Cowens and Jojo were as important to the 70's titles as the Big 3 were to the 80's. The 80's Big 3, Russell and Pierce are no brainers. Reggie you have to as he gave his life for this team and out of respect.

Are yhere some in there I might not have retired, sure. But stars of the 60's that put on the greatest championship streak in all of sports, need to be recognized. Never understood Dennis Johnson or Cedric Maxwell being retired but it is what it is.

We have tons of numbers that can still be used. No sense unretiring numbers. Every number up there has a story and a reason to be there. Let's respect that.

[Kuberski33]

Tommy should have his retired because of the sheer longevity to services to the sport and Celtics and Reggie out of respect.

Tommy Gun was a heck of the player back in the day, too.

Heinsohn played 10 seasons and won 8 titles - think about that for a second.  He was a 6x NBA All Star. He also won 2 as a coach after the team bottomed out and needed to be rebuilt - and that's before you get to what he's done as a broadcaster and ambassador for the team.

[tonydelk]

KG Absolutely deserves to have his number retired.  No doubt about it.

[Smartacus]

KG is the man who got me into Basketball, I say retire that number!

I think it's very easy to argue that along with the title The Kevin Garnett acquisition really brought basketball back to Boston. Looking at guys like Horford and Hayward who chose to come here, I don't see them necessarily having made the choice without KG bringing the Boston pride back into the limelight.

[Snakehead]

The thing some people miss on this is that the man is an absolutely all time great and wants to be a Celtic and remembered as one.  He is a close to the chest, quiet, and very loyal guy as far as things about his career and basketball go and he has said openly he wishes he came to Boston 4 or 5 years earlier.  That says a lot that he says that.

To me it is an honor both ways and to look at it purely as a time thing is really shallow.  I was a huge KG fan before he came to Boston and it was an honor to see him play for the Celtics and it honestly can make me emotional with him how much he bought into that and how hard he fought.  I think he is especially glossed over with how unfortunate his injury was and how hard he still fought to be very effective player in seasons like '12, if not as good as his absolutely dominant prime.

When he broke down in 08 after they won I did as well.

Like others have said, he changed the culture of this team and even the fanbase in a way that can't be measured.  I am biased I guess because KG is my all time favorite and my username here is even a reference to him, but all that is the case for a reason.  It's an honor to have been able to watch him play for the Celtics.

[nickagneta]

We had a ton of retired jerseys for the 11 titles in the 50s and 60s. We had 3 numbers retired for the 2 championships in the 70's. We had 5 numbers retired for the 3 titles in the 80s. 2 numbers retired for the 2008 title is good for me so KG is a no brainer IMO.

[GreenEnvy]

Realistically? No he shouldnt.

But since the Cs retire pretty much everyone's number, he probably will.

I am a firm believer the Cs have made a jersey being retired less meaningful. It should be for the best of the best that had tenure here in Boston.

I don’t get this mindset. How is KG not the best of the best? Other than Pierce, no other retired-number has played for Boston since 1994. So in 19 years (and we won’t see another number retired for at least a decade at the very minimum) we would have two players numbers retired and people view that as excessive? Do you not think he had the second best Celtics career in a 20-year span?

Or is it only because of our history? The only player that stands out as “unworthy” is Cornbread, but his service to the team in other capacities and overall relationships in sure had much to do with his number being retired as his playing career. Reggie Lewis? The guy was an all-star who died under contract. I don’t mind them honoring him by not letting anyone else wear his number.

Very perplexing stance by many of you. I’m sure Celtics brass disagrees with you guys.

[Moranis]

Ray Allen played in 91 playoff games for the Celtics.  Kevin Garnett played in 84 playoff games for the Celtics.  Garnett played in 38 more regular season games than Allen did, however Allen actually played more regular season minutes than Garnett despite playing in less games. 

If you look at advanced metrics like GmSc, Allen was the best player on the floor during the 08 NBA Finals (Allen was 16.7, Kobe was 16.4, and Pierce was 15.6).  Allen led the team in minutes and had an absolutely insane TS% of 70.8.  His ORtg was 129 and he had the same DRtg as Pierce at 106 (Pierce's ORtg was 112).  KG was 99 for both.  I think people forget just how good Allen was in that series.  Pierce won the Finals MVP with that epic game 5 performance (as well as being Mr. Celtic), but Allen just as easily could have won it as he didn't have any god awful games like Pierce did in game 3. 

I just don't see how you can realistically separate Garnett from Allen in this debate.  Either they should both go up or neither should.  I'm of the belief neither should as I don't think either played long enough in Boston to have earned the highest honor a team can give a player. 

That said I fully expect to see KG's number in the rafters and not Allen's, that just isn't what I would do.

[Eja117]

If Ray's # went to the rafters do you think KG, Rondo, and Paul would show up? I don't. I think they'd instagram whatever they were doing that day.  KG would probably instagram a pic of himself eating cheerios. Paul would instagram golfing. Rondo would instagram himself playing Connect 4

[kozlodoev]

If you look at advanced metrics like GmSc, Allen was the best player on the floor during the 08 NBA Finals (Allen was 16.7, Kobe was 16.4, and Pierce was 15.6).  Allen led the team in minutes and had an absolutely insane TS% of 70.8.  His ORtg was 129 and he had the same DRtg as Pierce at 106 (Pierce's ORtg was 112).  KG was 99 for both.  I think people forget just how good Allen was in that series.  Pierce won the Finals MVP with that epic game 5 performance (as well as being Mr. Celtic), but Allen just as easily could have won it as he didn't have any god awful games like Pierce did in game 3. 

I just don't see how you can realistically separate Garnett from Allen in this debate.  Either they should both go up or neither should.  I'm of the belief neither should as I don't think either played long enough in Boston to have earned the highest honor a team can give a player.

*yawn* Allen left and Garnett didn't. End of story.

[GreenEnvy]

Ray Allen played in 91 playoff games for the Celtics.  Kevin Garnett played in 84 playoff games for the Celtics.  Garnett played in 38 more regular season games than Allen did, however Allen actually played more regular season minutes than Garnett despite playing in less games. 

If you look at advanced metrics like GmSc, Allen was the best player on the floor during the 08 NBA Finals (Allen was 16.7, Kobe was 16.4, and Pierce was 15.6).  Allen led the team in minutes and had an absolutely insane TS% of 70.8.  His ORtg was 129 and he had the same DRtg as Pierce at 106 (Pierce's ORtg was 112).  KG was 99 for both.  I think people forget just how good Allen was in that series.  Pierce won the Finals MVP with that epic game 5 performance (as well as being Mr. Celtic), but Allen just as easily could have won it as he didn't have any god awful games like Pierce did in game 3. 

I just don't see how you can realistically separate Garnett from Allen in this debate.  Either they should both go up or neither should.  I'm of the belief neither should as I don't think either played long enough in Boston to have earned the highest honor a team can give a player.

Are you serious with this?

If you really want to delve into advanced statistics, we can do that. But those generally don’t provide much over a 6-game stretch. Want to use the entire 2008 playoffs? You can pick and choose which stat(s) and narrow it down to just the Finals, but Ray had a number of duds (scoreless in game 1 and 4 point stinker in game 7 of ECSF). We probably beat Cleveland and Detroit despite Ray.

Let’s not even talk about the 2010 Finals, the one where he couldn’t hit a three in 4 of the 7 games and shot 3-14 in the decisive game 7.

I don’t think even you believe Allen was nearly as good as KG was. Not in 2008, actually not ever in their careers anywhere. BUT, even if you did, that doesn’t mean they have to retire his number if they retire Kevin’s. They don’t HAVE to retire anyone’s. They get to choose. And relationships matter. He walked away. He was offered more money and a NTC for a lesser role with our rival. He burned this bridge, not Danny.

[Moranis]

Ray Allen played in 91 playoff games for the Celtics.  Kevin Garnett played in 84 playoff games for the Celtics.  Garnett played in 38 more regular season games than Allen did, however Allen actually played more regular season minutes than Garnett despite playing in less games. 

If you look at advanced metrics like GmSc, Allen was the best player on the floor during the 08 NBA Finals (Allen was 16.7, Kobe was 16.4, and Pierce was 15.6).  Allen led the team in minutes and had an absolutely insane TS% of 70.8.  His ORtg was 129 and he had the same DRtg as Pierce at 106 (Pierce's ORtg was 112).  KG was 99 for both.  I think people forget just how good Allen was in that series.  Pierce won the Finals MVP with that epic game 5 performance (as well as being Mr. Celtic), but Allen just as easily could have won it as he didn't have any god awful games like Pierce did in game 3. 

I just don't see how you can realistically separate Garnett from Allen in this debate.  Either they should both go up or neither should.  I'm of the belief neither should as I don't think either played long enough in Boston to have earned the highest honor a team can give a player.

Are you serious with this?

If you really want to delve into advanced statistics, we can do that. But those generally don’t provide much over a 6-game stretch. Want to use the entire 2008 playoffs? You can pick and choose which stat(s) and narrow it down to just the Finals, but Ray had a number of duds (scoreless in game 1 and 4 point stinker in game 7 of ECSF). We probably beat Cleveland and Detroit despite Ray.

Let’s not even talk about the 2010 Finals, the one where he couldn’t hit a three in 4 of the 7 games and shot 3-14 in the decisive game 7.

I don’t think even you believe Allen was nearly as good as KG was. Not in 2008, actually not ever in their careers anywhere. BUT, even if you did, that doesn’t mean they have to retire his number if they retire Kevin’s. They don’t HAVE to retire anyone’s. They get to choose. And relationships matter. He walked away. He was offered more money and a NTC for a lesser role with our rival. He burned this bridge, not Danny.

Danny traded Ray Allen.  Let's not conveniently forget that small fact.  Memphis backed out after Danny had already told Allen the trade was done.  A lesser role?  Doc had already sent Allen to the bench.  He was going to have the exact same role on each team i.e. first guard off the bench, only difference is, one team was a contender that hadn't stabbed him in the back, the other one was not a contender that betrayed him the season before.

[kozlodoev]

Danny traded Ray Allen.  Let's not conveniently forget that small fact.  Memphis backed out after Danny had already told Allen the trade was done.  A lesser role?  Doc had already sent Allen to the bench.  He was going to have the exact same role on each team i.e. first guard off the bench, only difference is, one team was a contender that hadn't stabbed him in the back, the other one was not a contender that betrayed him the season before.

So? That doesn't matter. The NTC was on the table when he left for Miami. He wouldn't have had to worry about that again. He wasn't leaving Danny Ainge when he walked away, because Danny Ainge doesn't suit up for the Celtics. He walked out on Garnett, Pierce, Doc, and the rest of his teammates. If he wanted to stay, he would have stayed -- regardless of the manager and regardless of his role. He chose differently. That's fine, he's not a serf and free to choose his own destiny -- but that will ultimately cost him the spot in the rafters.

[Moranis]

Danny traded Ray Allen.  Let's not conveniently forget that small fact.  Memphis backed out after Danny had already told Allen the trade was done.  A lesser role?  Doc had already sent Allen to the bench.  He was going to have the exact same role on each team i.e. first guard off the bench, only difference is, one team was a contender that hadn't stabbed him in the back, the other one was not a contender that betrayed him the season before.

So? That doesn't matter. The NTC was on the table when he left for Miami. He wouldn't have had to worry about that again. He wasn't leaving Danny Ainge when he walked away, because Danny Ainge doesn't suit up for the Celtics. He walked out on Garnett, Pierce, Doc, and the rest of his teammates. If he wanted to stay, he would have stayed -- regardless of the manager and regardless of his role. He chose differently. That's fine, he's not a serf and free to choose his own destiny -- but that will ultimately cost him the spot in the rafters.

KG had a no trade clause, it didn't stop him from being traded.  Frankly, I think Doc and Rondo drove Allen away.  Doc, especially, wasn't very kind to Allen at the end, though I don't know why anyone would expect anything different from Doc.  Doc has always been a 2 faced ****.  Rondo just grinds certain people and him and Allen never really got along and as Rondo became more of a star, those two just clashed more and more.