Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

As I've been saying over on Pats Pulpit, the offense was far from perfect—left way too many points off the board in the first half—but this loss is probably 95% on the defense.

That said, I have no idea why Brady didn't throw to the open man in the right flat on that fumble. I think it was White, but whoever it was, he was WIDE open, and Brady seemed hellbent on throwing deep. And it seemed like Brady didn't see the defensive player about to hit him, even though the guy wasn't coming from the blind side, which seemed weird. I wish he'd just tucked the ball, taken the sack, and lived to fight another play.

[Ilikesports17]

Tom has played cruddy so far

Cue the stupid "Shoulda kept Garapalo" junk all off season

I too hate it when my QB only throws for a measly 489 yards

Well when Nick Foles outplays you.....

Dude, Brady had over 400 yards passing.  He played fine.  The Pats defense was atrocious.  That's why they lost.

over 500.

Team put up 33 points (should have had 4 more from easy field goals). defense just couldnt stop a nose bleed. They punted what? one time?

Blaming Brady for this is so hilarious and just shows how spoiled we are. Tommy puts up 505 and 3 TDs with his #2 target sitting in the locker room against a top 5 defense and people have the audacity to say Brady played badly.

Is it audacity to say what happened?

You're probably the one and only person in the world that thinks Brady played badly.

But I guess everyone else is wrong and you are right, right?

Critical dropped pass that hit his hands. Passes in the dirt all night. Missing open receivers. Held the ball too long for a strip sack.

If he'd had the game the backup QB had then the Pats win.

It's ok not to be a homer apologist sometimes.

This is pure ridiculousness. The pass to a QB has to be 100% on the money because QBs aren't WRs. That pass was too high.

The passes that were in the dirt to receivers with tight coverage were meant to be in the dirt because that's what smart QBs do. You put the ball where only your receiver has a chance to catch it and no one else.

The dude threw a ton of passes and threw for over 500 yards. Yes, even the best of QBs on their best days will miss a couple open receivers. It happens to great QBs every week of the season.

On the strip sack he had almost no time to make a decision. There were no open receicers and a couple of the receivers hadn't finished their routes yet. Just a great play by the Philly defense. That's no one's "fault". Its just a great play.

Your Brady hate is unwarranted given how he played here and your analysis borders on not having a clue of how the game is played. Stopped being so p!ssed the Pats won and using Beady as your whipping boy. This loss isn't on Brady. Its on Belichick, Patricia and just awful excecution of the defense on 3rd and 4th down.

The balls were meant to be in the dirt. Wow. Well I'm glad I have a great football mind like you to teach me how to play great football Nick. I mean if the balls were meant to be in the dirt then Brady did great. Hey I mean maybe Foles could have improved his performance by throwing a few more in the dirt. Win by more points.

I mean I'm just ridiculous over here expecting QBs to not throw balls into the dirt. Man I'm just ridiculous sometimes.

eja...you're a pretty intelligent guy but this is some of the least football educated and least football informed stuff I have seen in some time and am surprised its coming from you.

Yes, QBs throw it to a place where only their player can make a play on the ball so that if he does catch it great, and if not, you get to play the next down because you didn't turn it over. Sometimes that's throwing the ball out of bounds where maybe only your player had a chance to catch it over the back shoulder, sometimes thats throwing the ball real low where maybe your man scoops it off the turf. But in both cases its so only your team had a chance to catch it and not the other team. Brady did this a bunch tonight because he dudn't have time in the pocket or because no one was open or both. You throw the incompletion and live to pkay another down.

That's not rocket science. That's high school QB 101.

Hm. The GOAT who only got sacked once tonight didn't have enough time in the pocket. Maybe that explains when he threw a screen pass into the dirt. Nobody's open...so throw it in the dirt. Hm. Very interesting.

I also find it interesting that on this thread I'm ridiculous for being a Brady hater but on the other thread I'm ridiculous saying Brady could lead an all time Patriots team to beat an all time team against the field.

I'm just always so ridiculous.

nailed it.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

For all you patriots fans who think it was Brady's fault you guys lost, all I can say is that isn't the case at all.  I am not a Pats fan, and not a Brady fan, but Brady completely diced up Philly that whole 2nd half.  Pats defense had a hard time stopping Philly.  But every team that has played Philly has had a hard time in the playoffs.  I think some of the Pats fans have got to the point where if they don't win the Super Bowl somehow someone really sucks on their team and they need someone to blame.  Sometimes the other team just plays an outstanding game and rises above.  That is what happened today with Foles.

Let me tell you it was a very close game, very entertaining and a slugfest.  The patriots kept coming back when you think Philly is going to pull away.  Brady is hands down the greatest QB of all time.  Philly was shaking in their boots on the drive that the Pats took the lead.  This is coming from, I am embarrassed to say a lot now, a dolphins fan. 

If you are a pats fan, why dont you just tip your hat to Nick Foles and say good job kid, you beat the best QB ever in the biggest game of the year.  It's not like BB and TB are going anywhere.   They will be favorites to make the superbowl next year as well.

I get what you're saying and in one sense I agree. A couple of things, though, related to the bolded areas above (and I could totally be just picking nits here, so take it with a grain of salt):

1) If the Pats, as a whole, had played GREAT but simply got outplayed—oh well, can't do much about that. But the Pats, as a whole, most definitely did NOT play great. The offense played great in the second half, but subpar in the first half, leaving a lot of points out there; and the defense was bad for 99% of the game.

2) When the team, as a whole, does not play great, blame is apparent, and thus valid. NE's D line got virtually zero pressure on Foles; Eric Rowe should've broken up the first Philly TD pass, and in fact he played pretty badly most of the night; the Pats also should've broken up that other TD pass at the back of the endzone (though technically, it wasn't a catch and should've been called as such). And the WRETCHED third-down defense: Philly was 10-for-16 (!!!) on third downs. Totally unacceptable.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

If brady doesn't win super bowl mvp, its rigged

IDK about rigged.  Brady had more yards, but Foles led the game winning drive.

Foles also had a TD catch.

That play call ranks up there with the best of them in SB history.

It would seem more impressive if it didn't come right after the Patriots tried the same thing on the previous series. They were on the 1 yard line - it was gutsy, but the Patriots weren't ever going to hold the Eagles to less than 1 yard no matter what the Eagles did there.

The two touchdowns that weren't overturned for the Eagles seemed like they should have been. Regardless of what you think a catch is, both of those plays have been pretty commonly called as 'drops' throughout the season.

Horrible defensive effort - zero pressure on Foles, gave up endless 3rd and 4th down conversions. TB had an amazing game, but go figure that he completely blows it (along with Shaq Mason) when it mattered most.

Next year we should have Hightower, Edelman, and Cooks back. No reason we can't make another trip to the SB, but the defense needs to improve.

tl;dr - total bummer...

To add to what you wrote:

The Foles TD catch was unnecessary; I mean, with the Pats D being crap, they could've gone with just about any play and scored, but they had to hot-dog it.

Can't believe the Clement TD catch wasn't overturned.

It's been about a decade now that Belichick has (seemingly) believed that a pass rush is unnecessary. The lack of pressure on the QB is unacceptable.

And to your last point, Hightower is likely to get injured again, along with at least one key offensive player. Pats probably make the AFC title game by virtue of the rest of the conference being crap, but they're not winning another Super Bowl with this D.

[nickagneta]

For all you patriots fans who think it was Brady's fault you guys lost, all I can say is that isn't the case at all.  I am not a Pats fan, and not a Brady fan, but Brady completely diced up Philly that whole 2nd half.  Pats defense had a hard time stopping Philly.  But every team that has played Philly has had a hard time in the playoffs.  I think some of the Pats fans have got to the point where if they don't win the Super Bowl somehow someone really sucks on their team and they need someone to blame.  Sometimes the other team just plays an outstanding game and rises above.  That is what happened today with Foles.

Let me tell you it was a very close game, very entertaining and a slugfest.  The patriots kept coming back when you think Philly is going to pull away.  Brady is hands down the greatest QB of all time.  Philly was shaking in their boots on the drive that the Pats took the lead.  This is coming from, I am embarrassed to say a lot now, a dolphins fan. 

If you are a pats fan, why dont you just tip your hat to Nick Foles and say good job kid, you beat the best QB ever in the biggest game of the year.  It's not like BB and TB are going anywhere.   They will be favorites to make the superbowl next year as well.

I get what you're saying and in one sense I agree. A couple of things, though, related to the bolded areas above (and I could totally be just picking nits here, so take it with a grain of salt):

1) If the Pats, as a whole, had played GREAT but simply got outplayed—oh well, can't do much about that. But the Pats, as a whole, most definitely did NOT play great. The offense played great in the second half, but subpar in the first half, leaving a lot of points out there; and the defense was bad for 99% of the game.

2) When the team, as a whole, does not play great, blame is apparent, and thus valid. NE's D line got virtually zero pressure on Foles; Eric Rowe should've broken up the first Philly TD pass, and in fact he played pretty badly most of the night; the Pats also should've broken up that other TD pass at the back of the endzone (though technically, it wasn't a catch and should've been called as such). And the WRETCHED third-down defense: Philly was 10-for-16 (!!!) on third downs. Totally unacceptable.

All true. The special teams were bad.  The defense sucked all game. A couple of calls were pretty iffy given what we have seen all year. But the offense never sucked. The points that were left off the board in the first half were all due to the coaching. First and less than one at the 5 while walking down the field....you go for it. Instead the go for a FG that's no good. Later 4th and 5 from the 35 while being indoors and instead of kicking it, they niss the 4th down play. That's 10 points lost in the first half from coaching decisions and bad execution and pkay calling. Without those dumb coaching decisions, Pats are probably tied at half and win.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Why didn't Butler play? I read BBs and Malcolms pat comments, but I'm curious to know the real reason
 He must've done something really stupid off the field (e.g., double homicide)

[CelticsElite]

Perhaps surprisingly, Patriots tight end Rob Gronkowski left the door open to the possibility of retirement following Sunday's loss.

"I am definitely going to look at my future for sure," said Gronkowski, who will turn 29 during the offseason. "I am going to sit down the next couple weeks and see where I am at."

When pressed further on a possible retirement, Gronkowski said he's "not ready for these type of questions right now."

"I'm going to reflect on the season," said Gronkowski, who had a team-high nine catches for 116 yards and two touchdowns. "Proud of the boys, and just see what happens."

[TheisTheisBaby]

The world is coming to an end.  Those soul-less fans in Philadelphia actually have a Superbowl.  They boo'd Santa, threw batteries at players, and cheered when Irvin broke his neck.  If there was ever a fan base that doesn't deserve a title, it's the Eagles.

[SparzWizard]

Why didn't Butler play? I read BBs and Malcolms pat comments, but I'm curious to know the real reason
 He must've done something really stupid off the field (e.g., double homicide)

Matt Patricia claimed it was "packages". Belichick claimed it was "football decisions". Eric Rowe didn't know he'd be starting over Butler, so he probably didn't know he would also be guarding Alshon Jeffrey.

[Csfan1984]

Patriots didn't deserve this one

[KGs Knee]

The world is coming to an end.  Those soul-less fans in Philadelphia actually have a Superbowl.  They boo'd Santa, threw batteries at players, and cheered when Irvin broke his neck.  If there was ever a fan base that doesn't deserve a title, it's the Eagles.

Nah, I mean, they're a miserable bunch, but that fan base has suffered long enough, they deserved this one. It was time.

Now, Pats fans, the arrogant lot of them, they might never deserve another SB Victory ever.

[seancally]

I think this is the sports gods punishing Brady for smelling his farts in public a bit too obviously  in recent months. Seriously... TB12, all the “Tom vs Time” stuff - who rolls that out DURING THE SEASON? You can’t wait until the offseason? You gotta have respect. The sports gods generally love Tom Brady but they aren’t gonna stand for some mortal man implying he might actually stand toe-to-toe with time itself.

[Big333223]

Perhaps surprisingly, Patriots tight end Rob Gronkowski left the door open to the possibility of retirement following Sunday's loss.

"I am definitely going to look at my future for sure," said Gronkowski, who will turn 29 during the offseason. "I am going to sit down the next couple weeks and see where I am at."

When pressed further on a possible retirement, Gronkowski said he's "not ready for these type of questions right now."

"I'm going to reflect on the season," said Gronkowski, who had a team-high nine catches for 116 yards and two touchdowns. "Proud of the boys, and just see what happens."

Makes sense to me. With the amount of injuries he's had and the kinds of injuries that can still happen to him, he's looking around thinking, "I'm a millionaire and I've already accomplished a lot in football, why am I still doing this?"

If he doesn't have that crazy drive to be the greatest of all time (and most of the time, that drive is crazy) it would make total sense to retire and enjoy his life.

[Eja117]

Tom has played cruddy so far

Cue the stupid "Shoulda kept Garapalo" junk all off season

I too hate it when my QB only throws for a measly 489 yards

Well when Nick Foles outplays you.....

Dude, Brady had over 400 yards passing.  He played fine.  The Pats defense was atrocious.  That's why they lost.

over 500.

Team put up 33 points (should have had 4 more from easy field goals). defense just couldnt stop a nose bleed. They punted what? one time?

Blaming Brady for this is so hilarious and just shows how spoiled we are. Tommy puts up 505 and 3 TDs with his #2 target sitting in the locker room against a top 5 defense and people have the audacity to say Brady played badly.

Is it audacity to say what happened?

You're probably the one and only person in the world that thinks Brady played badly.

But I guess everyone else is wrong and you are right, right?

Critical dropped pass that hit his hands. Passes in the dirt all night. Missing open receivers. Held the ball too long for a strip sack.

If he'd had the game the backup QB had then the Pats win.

It's ok not to be a homer apologist sometimes.

This is pure ridiculousness. The pass to a QB has to be 100% on the money because QBs aren't WRs. That pass was too high.

The passes that were in the dirt to receivers with tight coverage were meant to be in the dirt because that's what smart QBs do. You put the ball where only your receiver has a chance to catch it and no one else.

The dude threw a ton of passes and threw for over 500 yards. Yes, even the best of QBs on their best days will miss a couple open receivers. It happens to great QBs every week of the season.

On the strip sack he had almost no time to make a decision. There were no open receicers and a couple of the receivers hadn't finished their routes yet. Just a great play by the Philly defense. That's no one's "fault". Its just a great play.

Your Brady hate is unwarranted given how he played here and your analysis borders on not having a clue of how the game is played. Stopped being so p!ssed the Pats won and using Beady as your whipping boy. This loss isn't on Brady. Its on Belichick, Patricia and just awful excecution of the defense on 3rd and 4th down.

The balls were meant to be in the dirt. Wow. Well I'm glad I have a great football mind like you to teach me how to play great football Nick. I mean if the balls were meant to be in the dirt then Brady did great. Hey I mean maybe Foles could have improved his performance by throwing a few more in the dirt. Win by more points.

I mean I'm just ridiculous over here expecting QBs to not throw balls into the dirt. Man I'm just ridiculous sometimes.

eja...you're a pretty intelligent guy but this is some of the least football educated and least football informed stuff I have seen in some time and am surprised its coming from you.

Yes, QBs throw it to a place where only their player can make a play on the ball so that if he does catch it great, and if not, you get to play the next down because you didn't turn it over. Sometimes that's throwing the ball out of bounds where maybe only your player had a chance to catch it over the back shoulder, sometimes thats throwing the ball real low where maybe your man scoops it off the turf. But in both cases its so only your team had a chance to catch it and not the other team. Brady did this a bunch tonight because he dudn't have time in the pocket or because no one was open or both. You throw the incompletion and live to pkay another down.

That's not rocket science. That's high school QB 101.

Hm. The GOAT who only got sacked once tonight didn't have enough time in the pocket. Maybe that explains when he threw a screen pass into the dirt. Nobody's open...so throw it in the dirt. Hm. Very interesting.

I also find it interesting that on this thread I'm ridiculous for being a Brady hater but on the other thread I'm ridiculous saying Brady could lead an all time Patriots team to beat an all time team against the field.

I'm just always so ridiculous.

Well....in actuality....yeah, both opinions are pretty ridiculous. TP. 😄

Ridiculously accurate.

[kozlodoev]

Don't agree with that. Chung and McCourty are safeties not DBs. Harmon is pretty much a safety too though plays some nickelback. And I think Butler is better than Gilmore. So my opinion, Butler is their best DB, especially in coverage. Though others may think differently

Defensive Back is a term used to refer to the entire secondary. DBs consist of CBs and Safeties. That being said, the dropoff from Butler to Rowe, Bademosi, and Jordan Richards is so big that it's hard to rationalize not playing Butler one single snap.

And even if you thought you had better "packages", after it became clear that the plan wasn't working, it was time to change the plan. That's how you won the SB against Seattle.