Purely Hypothetical: Would You Trade Tatum In Package For Greek Freak?

[iadera]

I would not give Tatum for anyone, after this Philly-series. Only sky is the limit for this young guy.

[greece66]

Brown yes, Tatum no.

Someone who can consistently score 20 pts in playoff games locked in a 7 mil/4 year contract is too great a bargain.

[nickagneta]

Brown yes, Tatum no.

Someone who can consistently score 20 pts in playoff games locked in a 7 mil/4 year contract is too great a bargain.

Before he got hurt Brown was the leading scorer on this team with a 20 point game and 2 30 point games. Take away the 2 point game where he didn't play in the 2nd half and scored 2 points on limited minutes in the first half because he got hurt and Brown is actually averaging more points per game than Tatum.

If your answer is no on Tatum based on scoring, I don't understand how it can be yes on Brown given he was a better scorer during the season and except for one game he got hurt in, a better scorer in the playoffs.

[kozlodoev]

Brown yes, Tatum no.

Someone who can consistently score 20 pts in playoff games locked in a 7 mil/4 year contract is too great a bargain.

Considering that this description seems to fit both Brown and Tatum, I'm not sure I follow the logic either.

[td450]

I know part of the fun of CelticsBlog is discussing hypotheticals, but these playoffs are making it pretty clear to me that the C's should keep Brown and Tatum together no matter what any other team offers us. They are more valuable together than they are as separate players, and they are good enough already to get us into the final four, and perhaps even the finals.

They do not seem to resent each other's success, and they don't ever seem interested in padding numbers, or demanding a particular number of shots. They listen to the coach, and listen to other players. They are both two-way players who can defend multiple positions and have multiple ways to score. They are both crazy good athletes, and are oversized for their positions. They are fearless, clutch players.

As a combination, we've gotten every bit as lucky as if we drafted Giannis, or Anthony Davis. I think we can table any trade options for Tatum and/or Brown until 2030 or so

[Erik]

The thing is we have a lot of wings that do the same thing. Long, athletic, can shoot, defend multiple positions. Not a bad thing to have a lot of. The thought challenge here is if you trade one of them for Giannis, you add diversity to the team. You remove a shooter but add a significantly more athletic player than any of our other players. This is theoretically a plus because it gives you more options on how to play. However, I am not sure what that does to Brad Stevens' plug and play offense where all 5 guys can beat you from any part on the court. Does diversity improve the team or does it make it easier to beat?

[sawick48]

No. Tatums contract is better and gives us more flexibility

This for starters. The fact that he can actually shoot, score in the clutch, and average 20+ ppg for a team up 3-0 in the Eastern Semis while still being 3.5 year younger than Freak is another.


The rebounding and stupid length of Giannis is nice. The attitude and lack of success as top banana (albeit a young banana still) isn't.

What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?

BTW already said but heres once more... KG won a series for first time at the tender age of 27. I guess he was a loser too,right?

Are we really going to rehash the KG-supporting-staff-in-Minny debate? When your BEST #2 EVER is a choice between Cassell or Spreewell.....Something tells me if a 23 year old Garnett had Middleton, Bledsoe, crap even Thon and Henson to man the paint next to him, he would've found his way to the 2nd round.  But that's not why I'm responding.

Something always bugged me about the way Giannis responded to Kidd. I'll never forget how he said Kidd rode him hard one practice and Giannis' response was to go to the internet and check his coach's credentials, and only after discovering he was a Hall of Famer would he deem it ok for his coach to...ya know....coach him.

To me that speaks worlds about the type of attitude he has as a player.

I thought for a second you were arguing FOR Giannis. Spreewell and Cassell were way better than Drew Bledsoe and Middleton. John Henson and Thon Maker?? Are you serious? They suck. Plus they are terrible fits with Giannis. Neither can shoot. Henson has zero offensive game, and Maker is like 35 years old.

Also that's also probably the weakest story ever someone has referenced to prove Giannis has a bad attitude. That's the best you can do? That he did research on his coach? Lol.

Wait....you're being serious? Spreewell and Cassell were WAY BETTER than what the Bucks have right now? Have you looked at what the aforementioned 33 year old 40% FG (not 3FG, but like, just shots in general), BELOW 15 BOTH MINNY YEARS IN PER Spree did?!

Cassell there's at least an argument to be made but his numbers and Middleton are comparable (minus the fact that Sam averaged less than 1 3pt per game. I get that the era was different but still, the idea of inside/out and shooters being needed on the court to bail out the KG's and Duncan's doing work in the post was a main focus of those teams).  But even still, that means you go to the 3rd guy and its Bledsoe and his objectively decent numbers against Spreewell and his plain craptastic years.

You can't be serious. It's no contest that this Bucks supporting staff, while glaringly flawed, would wipe the floor with whatever it was KG had.

I'm all for admitting when I've been beaten or said something wrong but....not here.

[gouki88]

No. Tatums contract is better and gives us more flexibility

This for starters. The fact that he can actually shoot, score in the clutch, and average 20+ ppg for a team up 3-0 in the Eastern Semis while still being 3.5 year younger than Freak is another.


The rebounding and stupid length of Giannis is nice. The attitude and lack of success as top banana (albeit a young banana still) isn't.

What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?

BTW already said but heres once more... KG won a series for first time at the tender age of 27. I guess he was a loser too,right?

Are we really going to rehash the KG-supporting-staff-in-Minny debate? When your BEST #2 EVER is a choice between Cassell or Spreewell.....Something tells me if a 23 year old Garnett had Middleton, Bledsoe, crap even Thon and Henson to man the paint next to him, he would've found his way to the 2nd round.  But that's not why I'm responding.

Something always bugged me about the way Giannis responded to Kidd. I'll never forget how he said Kidd rode him hard one practice and Giannis' response was to go to the internet and check his coach's credentials, and only after discovering he was a Hall of Famer would he deem it ok for his coach to...ya know....coach him.

To me that speaks worlds about the type of attitude he has as a player.

I thought for a second you were arguing FOR Giannis. Spreewell and Cassell were way better than Drew Bledsoe and Middleton. John Henson and Thon Maker?? Are you serious? They suck. Plus they are terrible fits with Giannis. Neither can shoot. Henson has zero offensive game, and Maker is like 35 years old.

Also that's also probably the weakest story ever someone has referenced to prove Giannis has a bad attitude. That's the best you can do? That he did research on his coach? Lol.

Wait....you're being serious? Spreewell and Cassell were WAY BETTER than what the Bucks have right now? Have you looked at what the aforementioned 33 year old 40% FG (not 3FG, but like, just shots in general), BELOW 15 BOTH MINNY YEARS IN PER Spree did?!

Cassell there's at least an argument to be made but his numbers and Middleton are comparable (minus the fact that Sam averaged less than 1 3pt per game. I get that the era was different but still, the idea of inside/out and shooters being needed on the court to bail out the KG's and Duncan's doing work in the post was a main focus of those teams).  But even still, that means you go to the 3rd guy and its Bledsoe and his objectively decent numbers against Spreewell and his plain craptastic years.

You can't be serious. It's no contest that this Bucks supporting staff, while glaringly flawed, would wipe the floor with whatever it was KG had.

I'm all for admitting when I've been beaten or said something wrong but....not here.

TP.

[Bucketgetter]

No. Tatums contract is better and gives us more flexibility

This for starters. The fact that he can actually shoot, score in the clutch, and average 20+ ppg for a team up 3-0 in the Eastern Semis while still being 3.5 year younger than Freak is another.


The rebounding and stupid length of Giannis is nice. The attitude and lack of success as top banana (albeit a young banana still) isn't.

What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?

BTW already said but heres once more... KG won a series for first time at the tender age of 27. I guess he was a loser too,right?

Are we really going to rehash the KG-supporting-staff-in-Minny debate? When your BEST #2 EVER is a choice between Cassell or Spreewell.....Something tells me if a 23 year old Garnett had Middleton, Bledsoe, crap even Thon and Henson to man the paint next to him, he would've found his way to the 2nd round.  But that's not why I'm responding.

Something always bugged me about the way Giannis responded to Kidd. I'll never forget how he said Kidd rode him hard one practice and Giannis' response was to go to the internet and check his coach's credentials, and only after discovering he was a Hall of Famer would he deem it ok for his coach to...ya know....coach him.

To me that speaks worlds about the type of attitude he has as a player.

I thought for a second you were arguing FOR Giannis. Spreewell and Cassell were way better than Drew Bledsoe and Middleton. John Henson and Thon Maker?? Are you serious? They suck. Plus they are terrible fits with Giannis. Neither can shoot. Henson has zero offensive game, and Maker is like 35 years old.

Also that's also probably the weakest story ever someone has referenced to prove Giannis has a bad attitude. That's the best you can do? That he did research on his coach? Lol.

Wait....you're being serious? Spreewell and Cassell were WAY BETTER than what the Bucks have right now? Have you looked at what the aforementioned 33 year old 40% FG (not 3FG, but like, just shots in general), BELOW 15 BOTH MINNY YEARS IN PER Spree did?!

Cassell there's at least an argument to be made but his numbers and Middleton are comparable (minus the fact that Sam averaged less than 1 3pt per game. I get that the era was different but still, the idea of inside/out and shooters being needed on the court to bail out the KG's and Duncan's doing work in the post was a main focus of those teams).  But even still, that means you go to the 3rd guy and its Bledsoe and his objectively decent numbers against Spreewell and his plain craptastic years.

You can't be serious. It's no contest that this Bucks supporting staff, while glaringly flawed, would wipe the floor with whatever it was KG had.

I'm all for admitting when I've been beaten or said something wrong but....not here.

Just look at Cassell's stats in 2003.  You either don't understand basketball or are too lazy to do any research before you post. He simply had a better year than anyone Giannis has ever stepped on the floor with.

Cassell shot 48.8% from the field, 2% higher than Middleton. Cassell shot 39.8% from 3, 4% higher than Middleton. Cassell averaged twice as many assists with only slightly more turnovers. Cassell's PER was 5 points higher than Middleton's. Cassell had over 5 more win shares than Middleton. Cassell's VORP, USG%, BPM, DBPM, and OBPM are all higher than Middleton's. The only stat you can find that Middleton was better than Cassell at was 3 point ATTEMPTS. Lol.

[Somebody]

The thing is we have a lot of wings that do the same thing. Long, athletic, can shoot, defend multiple positions. Not a bad thing to have a lot of. The thought challenge here is if you trade one of them for Giannis, you add diversity to the team. You remove a shooter but add a significantly more athletic player than any of our other players. This is theoretically a plus because it gives you more options on how to play. However, I am not sure what that does to Brad Stevens' plug and play offense where all 5 guys can beat you from any part on the court. Does diversity improve the team or does it make it easier to beat?

I think there'll be a time when Brad pulls a 5 wing lineup with Semi or Morris at the 5 and we'll be raving about keeping all our wings lol. Ofc adding Giannis is great but I don't see why we should trade Tatum or Brown for him and I don't see why Milwaukee should trade Giannis for anyone on thr Celtics not named Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum.

[greece66]

Brown yes, Tatum no.

Someone who can consistently score 20 pts in playoff games locked in a 7 mil/4 year contract is too great a bargain.

Considering that this description seems to fit both Brown and Tatum, I'm not sure I follow the logic either.

My comment was poorly formulated indeed, although I think it's p easy to understand what I'm talking about.

[Somebody]

Brown yes, Tatum no.

Someone who can consistently score 20 pts in playoff games locked in a 7 mil/4 year contract is too great a bargain.

Considering that this description seems to fit both Brown and Tatum, I'm not sure I follow the logic either.

My comment was poorly formulated indeed, although I think it's p easy to understand what I'm talking about.

^

[Big333223]

No. Tatums contract is better and gives us more flexibility

This for starters. The fact that he can actually shoot, score in the clutch, and average 20+ ppg for a team up 3-0 in the Eastern Semis while still being 3.5 year younger than Freak is another.


The rebounding and stupid length of Giannis is nice. The attitude and lack of success as top banana (albeit a young banana still) isn't.

What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?

BTW already said but heres once more... KG won a series for first time at the tender age of 27. I guess he was a loser too,right?

Are we really going to rehash the KG-supporting-staff-in-Minny debate? When your BEST #2 EVER is a choice between Cassell or Spreewell.....Something tells me if a 23 year old Garnett had Middleton, Bledsoe, crap even Thon and Henson to man the paint next to him, he would've found his way to the 2nd round.  But that's not why I'm responding.

Something always bugged me about the way Giannis responded to Kidd. I'll never forget how he said Kidd rode him hard one practice and Giannis' response was to go to the internet and check his coach's credentials, and only after discovering he was a Hall of Famer would he deem it ok for his coach to...ya know....coach him.

To me that speaks worlds about the type of attitude he has as a player.

I thought for a second you were arguing FOR Giannis. Spreewell and Cassell were way better than Drew Bledsoe and Middleton. John Henson and Thon Maker?? Are you serious? They suck. Plus they are terrible fits with Giannis. Neither can shoot. Henson has zero offensive game, and Maker is like 35 years old.

Also that's also probably the weakest story ever someone has referenced to prove Giannis has a bad attitude. That's the best you can do? That he did research on his coach? Lol.

Wait....you're being serious? Spreewell and Cassell were WAY BETTER than what the Bucks have right now? Have you looked at what the aforementioned 33 year old 40% FG (not 3FG, but like, just shots in general), BELOW 15 BOTH MINNY YEARS IN PER Spree did?!

Cassell there's at least an argument to be made but his numbers and Middleton are comparable (minus the fact that Sam averaged less than 1 3pt per game. I get that the era was different but still, the idea of inside/out and shooters being needed on the court to bail out the KG's and Duncan's doing work in the post was a main focus of those teams).  But even still, that means you go to the 3rd guy and its Bledsoe and his objectively decent numbers against Spreewell and his plain craptastic years.

You can't be serious. It's no contest that this Bucks supporting staff, while glaringly flawed, would wipe the floor with whatever it was KG had.

I'm all for admitting when I've been beaten or said something wrong but....not here.

Just look at Cassell's stats in 2003.  You either don't understand basketball or are too lazy to do any research before you post. He simply had a better year than anyone Giannis has ever stepped on the floor with.

Cassell shot 48.8% from the field, 2% higher than Middleton. Cassell shot 39.8% from 3, 4% higher than Middleton. Cassell averaged twice as many assists with only slightly more turnovers. Cassell's PER was 5 points higher than Middleton's. Cassell had over 5 more win shares than Middleton. Cassell's VORP, USG%, BPM, DBPM, and OBPM are all higher than Middleton's. The only stat you can find that Middleton was better than Cassell at was 3 point ATTEMPTS. Lol.

For the record, Middleton averaged slightly more points than Cassel that year and had a higher eFG% and FT%. He also averaged more rebounds, steals, and blocks.

[Phantom255x]

Funny how things change so quick.

Poll used to be 57-19. Now it's 61-43 

[sawick48]

No. Tatums contract is better and gives us more flexibility

This for starters. The fact that he can actually shoot, score in the clutch, and average 20+ ppg for a team up 3-0 in the Eastern Semis while still being 3.5 year younger than Freak is another.


The rebounding and stupid length of Giannis is nice. The attitude and lack of success as top banana (albeit a young banana still) isn't.

What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?

BTW already said but heres once more... KG won a series for first time at the tender age of 27. I guess he was a loser too,right?

Are we really going to rehash the KG-supporting-staff-in-Minny debate? When your BEST #2 EVER is a choice between Cassell or Spreewell.....Something tells me if a 23 year old Garnett had Middleton, Bledsoe, crap even Thon and Henson to man the paint next to him, he would've found his way to the 2nd round.  But that's not why I'm responding.

Something always bugged me about the way Giannis responded to Kidd. I'll never forget how he said Kidd rode him hard one practice and Giannis' response was to go to the internet and check his coach's credentials, and only after discovering he was a Hall of Famer would he deem it ok for his coach to...ya know....coach him.

To me that speaks worlds about the type of attitude he has as a player.

I thought for a second you were arguing FOR Giannis. Spreewell and Cassell were way better than Drew Bledsoe and Middleton. John Henson and Thon Maker?? Are you serious? They suck. Plus they are terrible fits with Giannis. Neither can shoot. Henson has zero offensive game, and Maker is like 35 years old.

Also that's also probably the weakest story ever someone has referenced to prove Giannis has a bad attitude. That's the best you can do? That he did research on his coach? Lol.

Wait....you're being serious? Spreewell and Cassell were WAY BETTER than what the Bucks have right now? Have you looked at what the aforementioned 33 year old 40% FG (not 3FG, but like, just shots in general), BELOW 15 BOTH MINNY YEARS IN PER Spree did?!

Cassell there's at least an argument to be made but his numbers and Middleton are comparable (minus the fact that Sam averaged less than 1 3pt per game. I get that the era was different but still, the idea of inside/out and shooters being needed on the court to bail out the KG's and Duncan's doing work in the post was a main focus of those teams).  But even still, that means you go to the 3rd guy and its Bledsoe and his objectively decent numbers against Spreewell and his plain craptastic years.

You can't be serious. It's no contest that this Bucks supporting staff, while glaringly flawed, would wipe the floor with whatever it was KG had.

I'm all for admitting when I've been beaten or said something wrong but....not here.

Just look at Cassell's stats in 2003.  You either don't understand basketball or are too lazy to do any research before you post. He simply had a better year than anyone Giannis has ever stepped on the floor with.

Cassell shot 48.8% from the field, 2% higher than Middleton. Cassell shot 39.8% from 3, 4% higher than Middleton. Cassell averaged twice as many assists with only slightly more turnovers. Cassell's PER was 5 points higher than Middleton's. Cassell had over 5 more win shares than Middleton. Cassell's VORP, USG%, BPM, DBPM, and OBPM are all higher than Middleton's. The only stat you can find that Middleton was better than Cassell at was 3 point ATTEMPTS. Lol.

For the record, Middleton averaged slightly more points than Cassel that year and had a higher eFG% and FT%. He also averaged more rebounds, steals, and blocks.

No but yea, I'm lazy and don't understand basketball.....either/or