Author Topic: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete (Merged)  (Read 12110 times)

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Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2018, 02:02:41 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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There is a reason IT pines for Stevens and the C's at every turn. He knew what he had here. He knew how he was going to be used.

Cavs are not a good fit for him. Having him on the floor with JAMES, Love, Smith and crowder is pointless because the entire line up just stands at the 3 point line waiting to chuck 3s. Kyrie drives and breaks defenses down. IT really does not do that well now that he is beat up
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Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2018, 02:03:44 PM »

Online celticsclay

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Haven't the Cavs gone through these "slumps" for the last 3 years in a row where people fall for it and actually question "are the cavs falling apart" for it all to come together in the playoffs? Until the Cavs get knocked out of the Playoffs , it think it's silly to even entertain convos like this.

This is like those reports talking about talking about the turmoil in the locker room with the Patriots. I take all this with a grain of salt.

As others have pointed out. The Cavs have never finished lower than 2nd with Lebron. They are in 3rd. They are currently much closer to falling to 5th than they are of getting up to 2nd. Again this has never happened with one of the Lebron teams in Cleveland. Also, they no longer have their second best player in Irving. I don't really get how a basketball fan just ignores these pretty significant development and trots out the "in the past" argument. Doesn't make a lot of sense. 

Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2018, 02:06:25 PM »

Online celticsclay

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They are just noticing that Thomas is worse than Irving?  Really?  The Cavs have some terrible scouts.  If they didn't know that Thomas was a terrible defensive player last year when healthy, than they were in for a rude awakening.   Smart covered for many of his shortcomings.  However, the Cavs do not have a "Smart" on their team.  Good luck Cavs.  HaHa
Except he's not worse than Irving. He's just not nearly as healthy, and there is a good chance we will never see the same IT ever again.

The Cavaliers' defense isn't bad because of Isaiah Thomas. He has barely even played this year. Their defense is bad because they don't have a single elite defensive player on their roster. Having Thomas in the starting lineup certainly doesn't help, but there is no other point guard in the league who could turn Cleveland into even a mediocre defensive ballclub, let alone one that can seriously challenge Golden State in the finals.

Replace IT with Kyrie on that team, and its defense is still 29th in the league.

I don't agree with the bolded part at all.  Lebron is still a great defender.  I am not sure how often he brings his A-game defensively during the regular season, but he is still a great defender.

Lebron was 24th in all defensive voting last year and is now a year older and slower. I would say he can definitely be a good defensive player for short spurts, but he really can't be elite over the course of a game. I am not sure he will get a single vote this year.

Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2018, 02:09:00 PM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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AB could really really make an impact on defense.  and the team i. terms of embrassing the rest of the Cavs ...when they see how hard he works .....it sets a tone for everybody else.

AB would change the dynamics of Caves defense .   Crowder might play harder if AB was on the team ...IT is just a liability for the Cavs main weaknes defense .  Cavs don't need scoring ....ITs role ..they need lock down defense stoppers.

If Thomas would get traded for Bradley, that would be very ironic. Even if they thought it would be a good move, they wouldn't do it since it makes the Irving trade look worse.

But I agree with you. Cleveland doesn't need more star power or primary scoring options. They need a supporting cast that consists of reliable shooters and players who can hold their own defensively against Curry, Thompson and Durant.

And who aren't ancient in NBA terms.
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Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2018, 02:09:53 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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The Cavs are horrible on the road this season. Of all the teams in the East they need home court. If they finish third and have to play the Raptors in round two...that will be tough. I am not sure they win that series.
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Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2018, 02:13:03 PM »

Online celticsclay

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The Cavs are horrible on the road this season. Of all the teams in the East they need home court. If they finish third and have to play the Raptors in round two...that will be tough. I am not sure they win that series.
Road records: Boston 16-5
Toronto: 14-10
Cleveland 11-12

Yea I think homecourt is pretty important to them...

Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2018, 02:20:49 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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The Cavs are horrible on the road this season. Of all the teams in the East they need home court. If they finish third and have to play the Raptors in round two...that will be tough. I am not sure they win that series.
Road records: Boston 16-5
Toronto: 14-10
Cleveland 11-12

Yea I think homecourt is pretty important to them...

Albeit, a shortened season but the '11-12 Celtics (another seemingly "flip the switch" team) was a sub .500 15-18  on the road that year.  Still got themselves in a position where they almost made the finals.

I have a tough time burying teams like that until they are actually dead.


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Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2018, 02:37:07 PM »

Online celticsclay

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The Cavs are horrible on the road this season. Of all the teams in the East they need home court. If they finish third and have to play the Raptors in round two...that will be tough. I am not sure they win that series.
Road records: Boston 16-5
Toronto: 14-10
Cleveland 11-12

Yea I think homecourt is pretty important to them...

Albeit, a shortened season but the '11-12 Celtics (another seemingly "flip the switch" team) was a sub .500 15-18  on the road that year.  Still got themselves in a position where they almost made the finals.

I have a tough time burying teams like that until they are actually dead.

This is a fairly weak argument, and I say that as someone that loved that team a lot. However, they made the ECF largely because the number 1 seed bulls got decimated by injuries to both Noah and Rose and we got to play the 8th seeded 76ers in the second round. That team consisted of Holiday, Thad Young, Spencer Hawes and Iggy. If the Cavs get to play some very weak team due to injuries, sure, they could win. However, them playing Washington, Toronto and Cleveland in 3 consecutive rounds would be a far cry from our 2012 matchups with Hawks and Philly...

Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2018, 02:48:53 PM »

Offline Moranis

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There are going to be lots of potential players available.  I mean the Hawks have already said Belinelli and Illyasova are both available for a 2nd round pick (and no long term salary).  The Magic are aggressively looking to move Fournier, Hezonja, and Payton.  The available players are only going to increase as the season wears on.  Not all of those players would obviously help Cleveland, but there will be players available that absolutely could help the Cavs.

For example, maybe Atlanta is willing to move Bazemore.  He, would plug a lot of Cleveland's holes as he is a legitimate starting SG that is a + defender and respectable shooter.  Not sure either team does it, but Smith + BKN for Bazemore makes a lot of sense for both teams.  Obviously other players could be added as necessary (Dedmon seems like a player the Cavs could use). 

Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2018, 02:51:40 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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The Cavs are horrible on the road this season. Of all the teams in the East they need home court. If they finish third and have to play the Raptors in round two...that will be tough. I am not sure they win that series.
Road records: Boston 16-5
Toronto: 14-10
Cleveland 11-12

Yea I think homecourt is pretty important to them...

Albeit, a shortened season but the '11-12 Celtics (another seemingly "flip the switch" team) was a sub .500 15-18  on the road that year.  Still got themselves in a position where they almost made the finals.

I have a tough time burying teams like that until they are actually dead.

This is a fairly weak argument, and I say that as someone that loved that team a lot. However, they made the ECF largely because the number 1 seed bulls got decimated by injuries to both Noah and Rose and we got to play the 8th seeded 76ers in the second round. That team consisted of Holiday, Thad Young, Spencer Hawes and Iggy. If the Cavs get to play some very weak team due to injuries, sure, they could win. However, them playing Washington, Toronto and Cleveland in 3 consecutive rounds would be a far cry from our 2012 matchups with Hawks and Philly...

I don't think a veteran laden team like that is terribly concerned about home court advantage.  Much rather, being healthy and not overworked in the regular season.

It's Jan 16.  Much too early to be throwing dirt on that team.  Especially when they still have the best player in the world playing for them.


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Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2018, 02:52:49 PM »

Online celticsclay

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There are going to be lots of potential players available.  I mean the Hawks have already said Belinelli and Illyasova are both available for a 2nd round pick (and no long term salary).  The Magic are aggressively looking to move Fournier, Hezonja, and Payton.  The available players are only going to increase as the season wears on.  Not all of those players would obviously help Cleveland, but there will be players available that absolutely could help the Cavs.

For example, maybe Atlanta is willing to move Bazemore.  He, would plug a lot of Cleveland's holes as he is a legitimate starting SG that is a + defender and respectable shooter.  Not sure either team does it, but Smith + BKN for Bazemore makes a lot of sense for both teams.  Obviously other players could be added as necessary (Dedmon seems like a player the Cavs could use).

I think the Cleveland fan forum would light itself on fire if Bazemore was the main get from the Lottery pick. I would be so beyond thrilled if that somehow happened.

Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2018, 02:54:23 PM »

Online celticsclay

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The Cavs are horrible on the road this season. Of all the teams in the East they need home court. If they finish third and have to play the Raptors in round two...that will be tough. I am not sure they win that series.
Road records: Boston 16-5
Toronto: 14-10
Cleveland 11-12

Yea I think homecourt is pretty important to them...

Albeit, a shortened season but the '11-12 Celtics (another seemingly "flip the switch" team) was a sub .500 15-18  on the road that year.  Still got themselves in a position where they almost made the finals.

I have a tough time burying teams like that until they are actually dead.

This is a fairly weak argument, and I say that as someone that loved that team a lot. However, they made the ECF largely because the number 1 seed bulls got decimated by injuries to both Noah and Rose and we got to play the 8th seeded 76ers in the second round. That team consisted of Holiday, Thad Young, Spencer Hawes and Iggy. If the Cavs get to play some very weak team due to injuries, sure, they could win. However, them playing Washington, Toronto and Cleveland in 3 consecutive rounds would be a far cry from our 2012 matchups with Hawks and Philly...

I don't think a veteran laden team like that is terribly concerned about home court advantage.  Much rather, being healthy and not overworked in the regular season.

It's Jan 16.  Much too early to be throwing dirt on that team.  Especially when they still have the best player in the world playing for them.

I think Durant is currently a better player than Lebron for what it's worth. Also, if they are not terribly concerned why has their been a new story every day this week about how upset the players are on their team with the losing, rotations and agendas. They clearly care, and clearly cared a lot last night.

Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2018, 02:55:58 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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The Cavs are horrible on the road this season. Of all the teams in the East they need home court. If they finish third and have to play the Raptors in round two...that will be tough. I am not sure they win that series.
Road records: Boston 16-5
Toronto: 14-10
Cleveland 11-12

Yea I think homecourt is pretty important to them...

Albeit, a shortened season but the '11-12 Celtics (another seemingly "flip the switch" team) was a sub .500 15-18  on the road that year.  Still got themselves in a position where they almost made the finals.

I have a tough time burying teams like that until they are actually dead.

This is a fairly weak argument, and I say that as someone that loved that team a lot. However, they made the ECF largely because the number 1 seed bulls got decimated by injuries to both Noah and Rose and we got to play the 8th seeded 76ers in the second round. That team consisted of Holiday, Thad Young, Spencer Hawes and Iggy. If the Cavs get to play some very weak team due to injuries, sure, they could win. However, them playing Washington, Toronto and Cleveland in 3 consecutive rounds would be a far cry from our 2012 matchups with Hawks and Philly...

I don't think a veteran laden team like that is terribly concerned about home court advantage.  Much rather, being healthy and not overworked in the regular season.

It's Jan 16.  Much too early to be throwing dirt on that team.  Especially when they still have the best player in the world playing for them.

Sure. They have Lebron, they have the experience and yes its early. But I wouldn't go dismissing  all their problems like posters have. They are real concerns, and it looks like they lost a bit of their mystique. The intimidation factor is gone.

Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2018, 02:58:12 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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There are going to be lots of potential players available.  I mean the Hawks have already said Belinelli and Illyasova are both available for a 2nd round pick (and no long term salary).  The Magic are aggressively looking to move Fournier, Hezonja, and Payton.  The available players are only going to increase as the season wears on.  Not all of those players would obviously help Cleveland, but there will be players available that absolutely could help the Cavs.

For example, maybe Atlanta is willing to move Bazemore.  He, would plug a lot of Cleveland's holes as he is a legitimate starting SG that is a + defender and respectable shooter.  Not sure either team does it, but Smith + BKN for Bazemore makes a lot of sense for both teams.  Obviously other players could be added as necessary (Dedmon seems like a player the Cavs could use).

I think the Cleveland fan forum would light itself on fire if Bazemore was the main get from the Lottery pick. I would be so beyond thrilled if that somehow happened.

Truth

Re: McMenanim: Cavs players don't think current roster can compete
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2018, 03:04:02 PM »

Offline Moranis

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There are going to be lots of potential players available.  I mean the Hawks have already said Belinelli and Illyasova are both available for a 2nd round pick (and no long term salary).  The Magic are aggressively looking to move Fournier, Hezonja, and Payton.  The available players are only going to increase as the season wears on.  Not all of those players would obviously help Cleveland, but there will be players available that absolutely could help the Cavs.

For example, maybe Atlanta is willing to move Bazemore.  He, would plug a lot of Cleveland's holes as he is a legitimate starting SG that is a + defender and respectable shooter.  Not sure either team does it, but Smith + BKN for Bazemore makes a lot of sense for both teams.  Obviously other players could be added as necessary (Dedmon seems like a player the Cavs could use).

I think the Cleveland fan forum would light itself on fire if Bazemore was the main get from the Lottery pick. I would be so beyond thrilled if that somehow happened.
Maybe depends on how Bazemore looks for the Cavs and what he does for them, but this isn't a bad trade for Cleveland in a vacuum, especially with the BKN pick looking like 8-10 rather than 1-3.  Irving and Smith for Thomas, Bazemore, Crowder, Zizic, 2nd rounder is a fairly even trade all things being considered. May be they just add Frye and Dedmon to the trade making it a little more palatable to Cleveland.

Cavs would have to feel pretty good about their playoff chances if they rolled in with this team

PG - Thomas, Calderon, Rose
SG - Bazemore, Wade, Shumpert
SF - James, Green, Korver, Osman
PF - Love, Crowder
C - Thompson, Dedmon, Zizic

That team should easily come out of the east, and if they ever get Crowder figured out defensively might be able to realistically challenge the Warriors (though I would expect GS to still win).  The reality is the Cavs badly need someone like Bazemore.  He would just make their whole team better because SG is by far their weakest spot and the spot they could most use a 3-D type player (Bazemore is more talented than a regular 3-D player, but that is his basic skill set). 

 

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