IT: "Celtics medical staff misled me on hip injury"

[RJ87]

Hey you gotta feel for the guy,  the team and GM which he bled for lied to him about his injury to get him to play - subsequently costing him millions of dollars on his next contract - and then traded him away once it was clear to everyone his injury was worse than indicated by the team.

Okay IT - sorry you are so upset.

"Bled for?" Pah-lease. IT knew that if he sat out the entire playoffs with his injury that it would affect his next contract - which he has more than been alluding to for years now. He was in Boston for 2 1/2 years - I loved him while he was here, but he was no PP or Bird.

Danny and Brad put him in an excellent opportunity to succeed and make tens of millions more than he otherwise would have playing in PHX or as a 6th man on a very good team. 5'8" PGs don't often get the reins to a franchise and, while he certainly proved himself worthy, I highly doubt he would have been given that opportunity somewhere else.

Players get injured...sometimes at inopportune times. IT had to weigh out the benefits of pushing through his injury - surely he wanted to play and I am sure he took the most 'optimistic' view possible of his injury.

Players also get traded and going to Cleveland where he will only need to be 'good' for half of a season and showcase himself on the biggest stage is hardly NBA purgatory. If IT doesn't come back strong, then it's a bummer for him, but this isn't a disease that went untreated and he is still a VERY rich man.

TP.

Like I said before, he needs to have the NBPA file a grievance on his behalf because this is a serious accusation and the team would be liable. But he won't because this is bull. Wage a legal war instead of a publicity war. This is the moment where I lose respect for a player I used to root for.

[IDreamCeltics]

I think IT is just doing what he needs to do to dispel thoughts around the league that his hip will slow him down long term and/or become a recurring issue. He is going into free agency in a few months, previously he was expecting a max deal, now he will lose millions. He can at least try to keep that money loss to a minimum amount of damage

100% on the money.  After a team does a player dirty -and obviously the Celtics have a reputation for this - It falls on the player to try to set the record straight.  All IT is doing is trying to remind people that he was scoring 29 ppg AND playing injured at considerable financial risk to himself when he went down.  Now did the Celtics medical staff intentionally mislead Isaiah as to the nature and severity of the injury?  Did Danny follow it up by intimating to Isaiah a max deal was on the table to keep him playing while injured?  These are the recurring questions that nobody seems to have answers to, but make the most sense given how things have turned out. 

 

[RJ87]

I think IT is just doing what he needs to do to dispel thoughts around the league that his hip will slow him down long term and/or become a recurring issue. He is going into free agency in a few months, previously he was expecting a max deal, now he will lose millions. He can at least try to keep that money loss to a minimum amount of damage

100% on the money.  After a team does a player dirty -and obviously the Celtics have a reputation for this - It falls on the player to try to set the record straight.  All IT is doing is trying to remind people that he was scoring 29 ppg AND playing injured at considerable financial risk to himself when he went down.  Now did the Celtics medical staff intentionally mislead Isaiah as to the nature and severity of the injury?  Did Danny follow it up by intimating to Isaiah a max deal was on the table to keep him playing while injured?  These are the recurring questions that nobody seems to have answers to, but make the most sense given how things have turned out. 

 

Then he should take legal action since this insinuates the C's violated medical protocols, but they're circumventing the CBA as well. But he won't because he doesn't have a leg to stand on (pun 100% intended).

[Celtics4ever]

Then he should take legal action since this insinuates the C's violated medical protocols, but they're circumventing the CBA as well. But he won't because he doesn't have a leg to stand on (pun 100% intended).

Nope, he won't because the Celtics are the ones who shut him down and IT.   He wanted to play and I have posted that data earlier in the thread from articles in May 2017.   This is a just a bitter guy, and I think he has every right to be better and he wanted to be there.

For all the greatness of LeBron in the strong Anti-LeBron Bias thread, IT does not sound like he want to be in the presence of LeBron playing for CLE.  Neither did Kyrie.

[RJ87]

Honest question to the people buying this garbage: what would have been the endgame of the team lying to IT?  You can say a lot of things about Danny but the guy is a realist. He'd be the first to say that last year's team exceeded expectations, but didn't have a realistic shot at winning the championship even with 100% health. So what would be the purpose of having IT play under false pretenses? An additional win or two?

[mmmmm]

I realize people are asking him these questions, but he really needs to move on and focus on his new team that happens to be in the middle of a potential title run. This is all getting to be a bit much and he is starting to come off as whiny (reminds me of when Ray Allen was new to the heat and was talking about Celtics so much Riley had to ask him to be quiet). I appreciate all he did here but it is time to move on..

Eh, as you say in your first line.  Just as with Ray, these conversations (and the perspective of the player that gets presented) are driven by what the media asks and reports.    The media loves to pick at a scab and will continue to do so as long as they can get any clicks out of it.

The only option a player has is to go the, "No comment.", route.  But sometimes that backfires and gets construed as, "I have something negative I would say but I won't." even if he wants it to be completely neutral.   Or it gets regarded as surliness on the part of the player by the reporters who sometimes turn that into an antagonistic relationship.

Best thing to do is take it all with a giant grain of salt.

[mmmmm]

I don't understand any of this.  He says in the article that if he had sat out the playoffs, he would be playing already this season.  But that implies that a player would elect to sit out the playoffs so that he can play more games the following season in Nov. and Dec.  (Keep in mind that if he was not traded, these would be Celtics games).  There is no evidence that playing made the injury worse.  It just delayed when recovery started.

Umm... on what, exactly, are you basing that assertion on?   As far as I know, none of Thomas' actual medical information has been released to the public.

In terms of the medical staff, there is a difference between getting the recovery time for an injury wrong and not being truthful about the injury.  I can believe that the staff thought it would be say 4 months but ended up being 6 months or whatever but that is not being untruthful.  And they did finally shut him down in the playoffs after he aggravated it.  It may be true that they botched it to some degree but I highly doubt that he was intentionally misled.

Whatever you "can believe", none of us really know what was known or told by or to any of the individuals involved here.

The fact that the entire med/training staff was let go after being with the team for so long is very odd and suggests that maybe something odd did happen here.  But we don't really know anything more than that.

[hpantazo]

Honest question to the people buying this garbage: what would have been the endgame of the team lying to IT?  You can say a lot of things about Danny but the guy is a realist. He'd be the first to say that last year's team exceeded expectations, but didn't have a realistic shot at winning the championship even with 100% health. So what would be the purpose of having IT play under false pretenses? An additional win or two?

Theoretically, ticket sales from the Eastern Conference Finals.

Realistically though, I agree, Ainge and the Celtics ownership have never been the type to risk the health of their players for short term gain.

[hpantazo]

How much do you want to bet that IT is going to focus on putting up stats when he plays for the Cavs, to have something to point to when asking for a max deal soon?

Problem is, he needs the ball in his hands a lot to do that, and he will be slow getting back to speed, while the Cavs need to gel going into Lebron's last run in Cleveland, and....Lebron is the one who will handle the ball most of the time.

If they turn IT into a 'stand in the corner and shoot' type of guard, he will look awful.

If IT instead handles the ball primarily, and does his thing, Lebron and the Cavs will suffer.

[RJ87]

Honest question to the people buying this garbage: what would have been the endgame of the team lying to IT?  You can say a lot of things about Danny but the guy is a realist. He'd be the first to say that last year's team exceeded expectations, but didn't have a realistic shot at winning the championship even with 100% health. So what would be the purpose of having IT play under false pretenses? An additional win or two?

Theoretically, ticket sales from the Eastern Conference Finals.

Realistically though, I agree, Ainge and the Celtics ownership have never been the type to risk the health of their players for short term gain.

But even the theoretical doesn't fit. No one expected the Celtics to put up a fight and I feel pretty comfortable saying that given Boston's history of home game attendance, any home games during the ECF would've been projected to sell out regardless of Isaiah's availability.

[Vermont Green]

I don't understand any of this.  He says in the article that if he had sat out the playoffs, he would be playing already this season.  But that implies that a player would elect to sit out the playoffs so that he can play more games the following season in Nov. and Dec.  (Keep in mind that if he was not traded, these would be Celtics games).  There is no evidence that playing made the injury worse.  It just delayed when recovery started.

Umm... on what, exactly, are you basing that assertion on?   As far as I know, none of Thomas' actual medical information has been released to the public.

In terms of the medical staff, there is a difference between getting the recovery time for an injury wrong and not being truthful about the injury.  I can believe that the staff thought it would be say 4 months but ended up being 6 months or whatever but that is not being untruthful.  And they did finally shut him down in the playoffs after he aggravated it.  It may be true that they botched it to some degree but I highly doubt that he was intentionally misled.

Whatever you "can believe", none of us really know what was known or told by or to any of the individuals involved here.

The fact that the entire med/training staff was let go after being with the team for so long is very odd and suggests that maybe something odd did happen here.  But we don't really know anything more than that.

There is nothing definitive that indicates the injury was worse or required longer recovery based on him playing what, 15 games in the playoffs.  Maybe it did but my point is the same.  If he shut down on May 1 and needed 4 months to recover, he could have been ready to play earlier in the season, perhaps even the beginning of the season (but probably not).  Instead he played another month and needed 6 months to heal (worst case hypothetical).  I don't see the infraction here.

In terms of the training staff, they may well have botched the diagnosis and that lead to them being replaced.  If, on the other hand, they intentionally misled IT, they probably did that on behalf of the team and wouldn't be fired.  Or are you suggesting that they misled both IT and the team?  I don't see how there could be a conspiracy here.

[hpantazo]

Honest question to the people buying this garbage: what would have been the endgame of the team lying to IT?  You can say a lot of things about Danny but the guy is a realist. He'd be the first to say that last year's team exceeded expectations, but didn't have a realistic shot at winning the championship even with 100% health. So what would be the purpose of having IT play under false pretenses? An additional win or two?

Theoretically, ticket sales from the Eastern Conference Finals.

Realistically though, I agree, Ainge and the Celtics ownership have never been the type to risk the health of their players for short term gain.

But even the theoretical doesn't fit. No one expected the Celtics to put up a fight and I feel pretty comfortable saying that given Boston's history of home game attendance, any home games during the ECF would've been projected to sell out regardless of Isaiah's availability.

It would be fully about making it to the ECF. IT was injured in games 6 and 7 in the Wizards series, and most likely earlier than that.

[mmmmm]

I don't understand any of this.  He says in the article that if he had sat out the playoffs, he would be playing already this season.  But that implies that a player would elect to sit out the playoffs so that he can play more games the following season in Nov. and Dec.  (Keep in mind that if he was not traded, these would be Celtics games).  There is no evidence that playing made the injury worse.  It just delayed when recovery started.

Umm... on what, exactly, are you basing that assertion on?   As far as I know, none of Thomas' actual medical information has been released to the public.

In terms of the medical staff, there is a difference between getting the recovery time for an injury wrong and not being truthful about the injury.  I can believe that the staff thought it would be say 4 months but ended up being 6 months or whatever but that is not being untruthful.  And they did finally shut him down in the playoffs after he aggravated it.  It may be true that they botched it to some degree but I highly doubt that he was intentionally misled.

Whatever you "can believe", none of us really know what was known or told by or to any of the individuals involved here.

The fact that the entire med/training staff was let go after being with the team for so long is very odd and suggests that maybe something odd did happen here.  But we don't really know anything more than that.

There is nothing definitive that indicates the injury was worse or required longer recovery based on him playing what, 15 games in the playoffs.  Maybe it did but my point is the same.  If he shut down on May 1 and needed 4 months to recover, he could have been ready to play earlier in the season, perhaps even the beginning of the season (but probably not).  Instead he played another month and needed 6 months to heal (worst case hypothetical).  I don't see the infraction here.

No.  We have absolutely no way of knowing whether the recovery time was exacerbated by playing those additional games or not.  We can't assert that the recovery time would just be shifted by x number of days.   It may be pure hindsight, but Thomas' stated view now is that the additional games did additional damage that resulted in a longer recovery time.  And that's definitely possible.  I'm not going to say what the truth is because I don't know.  But we have no basis to assert differently from what he has stated.

Further, he indicates that he was told that playing the additional games would NOT exacerbate his recovery time.  Again, I don't know what he was told.  But we have no basis to assert that he was told anything but what he just claimed.

In terms of the training staff, they may well have botched the diagnosis and that lead to them being replaced.  If, on the other hand, they intentionally misled IT, they probably did that on behalf of the team and wouldn't be fired.  Or are you suggesting that they misled both IT and the team?  I don't see how there could be a conspiracy here.

"Intent" is not something I expect to ever have the slightest indication of regarding this event.   The implication of Thomas' words here is that they told him something that in hindsight did not turn out to be correct.   That's all we have.   We don't have anything here regarding "intent".   Sometimes people just plain make mistakes.   Or even when they follow all the procedures and tests correctly, still can make an incorrect diagnosis.

[gouki88]

The way he's acting is so childish.

Get over it

[Sixth Man]

The way he's acting is so childish.

Get over it

He has the mentality of a child, sad to say, but that's nothing new.