Kyrie Flirting With 50/40/90

[Green-18]

Before the season I said that Kyrie could approach Stephen Curry levels of efficiency but on a much lower volume of threes.  He's not there yet but I wouldn't be surprised to see a full season of 50/45/90 at some point in the future.  Watching him clutch moments is a sight to behold. 

My only minor criticism is that he has played some hero ball lately.  I don't mind his aggressiveness but the step back threes early in the shot clock need to stop.  Worst case scenario he can take the same exact shot late in the clock if our offensive set doesn't lead to anything.

I agree about the hero ball stuff. Noticed too on a couple of occasions. That being said, with no Hayward, I would still rather he take them than someone else.

I'm with you.  My biggest gripe is when he takes difficult shots too early in the shot clock.

[RJ87]

Before the season I said that Kyrie could approach Stephen Curry levels of efficiency but on a much lower volume of threes.  He's not there yet but I wouldn't be surprised to see a full season of 50/45/90 at some point in the future.  Watching him clutch moments is a sight to behold. 

My only minor criticism is that he has played some hero ball lately.  I don't mind his aggressiveness but the step back threes early in the shot clock need to stop.  Worst case scenario he can take the same exact shot late in the clock if our offensive set doesn't lead to anything.

I agree about the hero ball stuff. Noticed too on a couple of occasions. That being said, with no Hayward, I would still rather he take them than someone else.

I'm with you.  My biggest gripe is when he takes difficult shots too early in the shot clock.

In all honesty, I'd prefer a difficult Kyrie shot than to watch Smart front rim another point blank lay up.

[Green-18]

Before the season I said that Kyrie could approach Stephen Curry levels of efficiency but on a much lower volume of threes.  He's not there yet but I wouldn't be surprised to see a full season of 50/45/90 at some point in the future.  Watching him clutch moments is a sight to behold. 

My only minor criticism is that he has played some hero ball lately.  I don't mind his aggressiveness but the step back threes early in the shot clock need to stop.  Worst case scenario he can take the same exact shot late in the clock if our offensive set doesn't lead to anything.

I agree about the hero ball stuff. Noticed too on a couple of occasions. That being said, with no Hayward, I would still rather he take them than someone else.

I'm with you.  My biggest gripe is when he takes difficult shots too early in the shot clock.

In all honesty, I'd prefer a difficult Kyrie shot than to watch Smart front rim another point blank lay up.

We are all in agreement about Kyrie taking the big shots.  I just want the team to run a set to create a good look before jacking up a contested three early in the shot clock.  Worst case Kyrie can take that shot if the play falls apart.

[nickagneta]

Really don't think Kyrie plays any more hero ball than IT did. Thomas nearly every game dribbled down court and with the opposition's defense set and not all his team on the offensive end yet, pulled up for a three. Isaiah many times a game went iso and went barreling into the lane hoping to hit a layup or pick up the foul.

Kyrie involves his team mates as much as IT did. If you check their assist% to usage% ratio, they are almost exact. So if Kyrie's stats are empty, then so were IT's.

Kyrie does the same stuff. Why? Because they are scorers and that's what scorers do.

[Roy H.]

Kyrie involves his team mates as much as IT did. If you check their assist% to usage% ratio, they are almost exact.

They’re close, but there’s at least some evidence that IT was a slightly more willing passer:

[GratefulCs]

Leads the NBA in clutch points, again.

@ESPNForsberg

With 8 clutch-time points in rally vs. Pacers, Kyrie Irving slips back in front of LeBron James for most clutch points in the NBA this season.

Kyrie with 87 points in 57 clutch minutes. LeBron with 85 points in 65 minutes. Next closest: Lillard (70 pts, 77 min)

It'd be fun to see if Lillard would perform similarly in Boston.  He probably would've come at a much lower cost as well, though I do understand the importance of marketing.

just enjoy the ride, man

[jambr380]

Kyrie involves his team mates as much as IT did. If you check their assist% to usage% ratio, they are almost exact.

They’re close, but there’s at least some evidence that IT was a slightly more willing passer:

Cool chart - thanks for posting.

One statistic that I find interesting is 'passes received'. Since IT [last year] received more than 13 additional passes/gm than Kyrie does this year, that likely has to do with how many passes he is actually making.

Kyrie looks like a ball-hog at times, but it is mostly in the 4th quarter and that has really seemed to benefit us as a team.

[droopdog7]

His scoring often feels empty.  I'd rather see him getting others involved in the PnR, semi-transition, etc. than in isolation.

Mmmhmhm.

http://www.nbaminer.com/clutch-time-stats/

Other than not at all, how are clutch stats related to him making plays for others?  Loosely at best, right?  I feel like I'm commonly seeing him with 20-30 and everyone else looking disengaged.  Have you also noticed that?

His scoring often feels empty.  I'd rather see him getting others involved in the PnR, semi-transition, etc. than in isolation.

Come on now, your dislike of Kyrie is showing through here.

If Kyrie continues what he has been doing the last 15 games for the rest of the year that would mean 28PPG and 5 APG from our PG.

IT, who you love, scored 29PPG with 6 APG on very similar shooting percentages.

So for 1 more PPG and 1 more APG IT had meaningful stats and Kyrie has empty stats? Come on now?!?!

Isaiah also played 2 more MPG and was an absolute disaster defensively.

Good point, but not on topic.  Kyrie is also a disaster defensively, and IT had the better clutch stats last season.  Were you aware of that?

In the spirit of side-stepping the topic, Kyrie wears finger-friendly mittens and loves to hear himself speak.

Wow, how far off can a person be?  You referred to Kyrie's stats as empty.  Then you went on to say that he should get others more involved.  So that's YOUR interpretation of how he should be playing.  Perhaps other's don't agree with you.

And then you dismiss the clutch time stats because you think it doesn't have anything to do with the topic?  And then you proceed to ignore an important stat for that reason.

Wuh?

[nickagneta]

Kyrie involves his team mates as much as IT did. If you check their assist% to usage% ratio, they are almost exact.

They’re close, but there’s at least some evidence that IT was a slightly more willing passer:

If you take these dtats and then adjust them for minutes played and usage, it gets very, very close regarding who was the more willing passer. Remember Isaiah played 2 more minutes per game and had had a 34% to 31% usage advantage.

[jambr380]

Leads the NBA in clutch points, again.

@ESPNForsberg

With 8 clutch-time points in rally vs. Pacers, Kyrie Irving slips back in front of LeBron James for most clutch points in the NBA this season.

Kyrie with 87 points in 57 clutch minutes. LeBron with 85 points in 65 minutes. Next closest: Lillard (70 pts, 77 min)

It'd be fun to see if Lillard would perform similarly in Boston.  He probably would've come at a much lower cost as well, though I do understand the importance of marketing.

I am sure Lillard would do fine in our system, but I doubt he would have come any cheaper than Irving did (who actually made a trade demand). Lillard is signed through 2021 and he means everything to the Blazers. They aren't letting him go without a fight.

The downside with Lillard is that he is two years older than Kyrie and shoots considerably lower percentages both from 2PT and 3PT. He is also one of the few PGS who is considered to be a worse defender than Kyrie (Kyrie has changed people's minds this year, though).

[Roy H.]

Kyrie involves his team mates as much as IT did. If you check their assist% to usage% ratio, they are almost exact.

They’re close, but there’s at least some evidence that IT was a slightly more willing passer:

If you take these dtats and then adjust them for minutes played and usage, it gets very, very close regarding who was the more willing passer. Remember Isaiah played 2 more minutes per game and had had a 34% to 31% usage advantage.

Closer, yes, but I do think that last year's offense had a little more ball movement and IT found his teammates in better positions to score.

Like I said, it's a slight difference, and when you consider the situation both guys were in -- alpha dog with no elite second option -- both guys have combined scoring and efficiency in an amazing way.  But, in terms of skills, I think IT was a slightly better passer.

But, even while acknowledging that slight difference, the two guys play the game in very similar ways.  The only real difference is that IT got to the line more.

[nickagneta]

Kyrie involves his team mates as much as IT did. If you check their assist% to usage% ratio, they are almost exact.

They’re close, but there’s at least some evidence that IT was a slightly more willing passer:

If you take these dtats and then adjust them for minutes played and usage, it gets very, very close regarding who was the more willing passer. Remember Isaiah played 2 more minutes per game and had had a 34% to 31% usage advantage.

Closer, yes, but I do think that last year's offense had a little more ball movement and IT found his teammates in better positions to score.

Like I said, it's a slight difference, and when you consider the situation both guys were in -- alpha dog with no elite second option -- both guys have combined scoring and efficiency in an amazing way.  But, in terms of skills, I think IT was a slightly better passer.

But, even while acknowledging that slight difference, the two guys play the game in very similar ways.  The only real difference is that IT got to the line more.

I agree with almost all of this but would also add that IT was playing in the 3rd year of the system with players who had been in the system for years. I think as the years go by and Irving is playing in the system more and gets familiar with his team mates, the passing difference will disappear.

I find both players very similar and love both of them in the Stevens system. The only major difference I see is Irving's ability to play better defense...when he wants to play defense, which so far this year, he has done.

[Roy H.]

Kyrie involves his team mates as much as IT did. If you check their assist% to usage% ratio, they are almost exact.

They’re close, but there’s at least some evidence that IT was a slightly more willing passer:

If you take these dtats and then adjust them for minutes played and usage, it gets very, very close regarding who was the more willing passer. Remember Isaiah played 2 more minutes per game and had had a 34% to 31% usage advantage.

Closer, yes, but I do think that last year's offense had a little more ball movement and IT found his teammates in better positions to score.

Like I said, it's a slight difference, and when you consider the situation both guys were in -- alpha dog with no elite second option -- both guys have combined scoring and efficiency in an amazing way.  But, in terms of skills, I think IT was a slightly better passer.

But, even while acknowledging that slight difference, the two guys play the game in very similar ways.  The only real difference is that IT got to the line more.

I agree with almost all of this but would also add that IT was playing in the 3rd year of the system with players who had been in the system for years. I think as the years go by and Irving is playing in the system more and gets familiar with his team mates, the passing difference will disappear.

I find both players very similar and love both of them in the Stevens system. The only major difference I see is Irving's ability to play better defense...when he wants to play defense, which so far this year, he has done.

Oddly, both Kyrie's passing and defense have gotten worse as the season has progressed.

Oct:  21.7 points, 5.7 assists, 3.7 rebounds, .543 TS%, 29.1 USG, 97 DRtg

Nov:  24.1 points, 4.9 assists, 3.1 rebounds, .612 TS%, 32.2 USG, 104 DRtg

Dec:  26.9 points, 4.2 assists, 2.0 rebounds, .641 TS%, 33.7 USG, 115 DRtg

What's the narrative there?  Is it that as Kyrie becomes more comfortable, he reverts more to a scorer?  Or that since his shot has been falling at super-efficient levels, he's been more likely to keep the ball?  Or is it that Kyrie is naturally exerting less effort as the season goes on?  Or is it just due to variations in the schedule?

[nickagneta]

Kyrie involves his team mates as much as IT did. If you check their assist% to usage% ratio, they are almost exact.

They’re close, but there’s at least some evidence that IT was a slightly more willing passer:

If you take these dtats and then adjust them for minutes played and usage, it gets very, very close regarding who was the more willing passer. Remember Isaiah played 2 more minutes per game and had had a 34% to 31% usage advantage.

Closer, yes, but I do think that last year's offense had a little more ball movement and IT found his teammates in better positions to score.

Like I said, it's a slight difference, and when you consider the situation both guys were in -- alpha dog with no elite second option -- both guys have combined scoring and efficiency in an amazing way.  But, in terms of skills, I think IT was a slightly better passer.

But, even while acknowledging that slight difference, the two guys play the game in very similar ways.  The only real difference is that IT got to the line more.

I agree with almost all of this but would also add that IT was playing in the 3rd year of the system with players who had been in the system for years. I think as the years go by and Irving is playing in the system more and gets familiar with his team mates, the passing difference will disappear.

I find both players very similar and love both of them in the Stevens system. The only major difference I see is Irving's ability to play better defense...when he wants to play defense, which so far this year, he has done.

Oddly, both Kyrie's passing and defense have gotten worse as the season has progressed.

Oct:  21.7 points, 5.7 assists, 3.7 rebounds, .543 TS%, 29.1 USG, 97 DRtg

Nov:  24.1 points, 4.9 assists, 3.1 rebounds, .612 TS%, 32.2 USG, 104 DRtg

Dec:  26.9 points, 4.2 assists, 2.0 rebounds, .641 TS%, 33.7 USG, 115 DRtg

What's the narrative there?  Is it that as Kyrie becomes more comfortable, he reverts more to a scorer?  Or that since his shot has been falling at super-efficient levels, he's been more likely to keep the ball?  Or is it that Kyrie is naturally exerting less effort as the season goes on?  Or is it just due to variations in the schedule?

Kinda mirrors the Celtics as a whole. Defense has gotten worse, offense has gotten better and ball movement as a whole has declined. I am sure Kyrie is a part of that but he isn't the only one.

Its not even the half way point of the season. I say let's see how the rest of the season plays out.

[Big333223]

Kyrie involves his team mates as much as IT did. If you check their assist% to usage% ratio, they are almost exact.

They’re close, but there’s at least some evidence that IT was a slightly more willing passer:

If you take these dtats and then adjust them for minutes played and usage, it gets very, very close regarding who was the more willing passer. Remember Isaiah played 2 more minutes per game and had had a 34% to 31% usage advantage.

Closer, yes, but I do think that last year's offense had a little more ball movement and IT found his teammates in better positions to score.

Like I said, it's a slight difference, and when you consider the situation both guys were in -- alpha dog with no elite second option -- both guys have combined scoring and efficiency in an amazing way.  But, in terms of skills, I think IT was a slightly better passer.

But, even while acknowledging that slight difference, the two guys play the game in very similar ways.  The only real difference is that IT got to the line more.

I agree with almost all of this but would also add that IT was playing in the 3rd year of the system with players who had been in the system for years. I think as the years go by and Irving is playing in the system more and gets familiar with his team mates, the passing difference will disappear.

I find both players very similar and love both of them in the Stevens system. The only major difference I see is Irving's ability to play better defense...when he wants to play defense, which so far this year, he has done.

I would add to this that Kyrie (and everyone else) spent all of training camp thinking he'd be running a lot of plays through Gordon Hayward every night. I think after the Hayward injury we saw Kyrie unsure of how he was supposed to play now that the guy he assumed he'd be passing to every night was gone. I think he's had to adjust his expectations of his role on the fly after just learning a new system.

When you look at IT's progression (or Crowder's, or Horford's) from his first full year to his second under Stevens I think it's fair to think Kyrie can and will be even better next year.