Brendan Haywood Above the Rim Rankings of Young players in Celtics v. Lakers

[A Future of Stevens]

As the title suggests, Brendan Haywood (actually a very good listen most days, seems to be very knowledgeable on a lot of BBall topics) was ranking all of the young players in the Celtics v. Lakers matchup on Above the Rim. He was discussing them as prospects going forward. 

His Ranking went    1. Brown    2. Tatum    3. Ingram    4. Kuzma    5. Ball    6. Smart

I personally would probably switch Brown and Tatum (although I like Brown better than Tatum), and Kuzma and Ball.

Anyway thought it was interesting, how do you rank the young players in the game between the two teams?

[Moranis]

as prospects going forward it would be hard not to have Ball #1.  Smart and Kuzma are clearly the bottom 2.  I still have no idea what to make of Ingram, but thus far haven't seen enough to put him above 4.  I'd put Tatum 2 and Brown 3. 

[Donoghus]

I'd flip flop Tatum & Brown and probably also flip flop Kuzma & Ball.

1) Tatum
2) Brown
3) Ingram
4) Ball
5) Kuzma
6) Smart

Ball is the wild card here.  He really could be anywhere from 2-5, IMO.

[jpotter33]

I'd flip flop Tatum & Brown and probably also flip flop Kuzma & Ball.

1) Tatum
2) Brown
3) Ingram
4) Ball
5) Kuzma
6) Smart

Ball is the wild card here.  He really could be anywhere from 2-5, IMO.

Yep, this.

I'm surprised there are still people liking Brown over Tatum. I think Tatum just has all of the tools needed to make him a two-way star in this league in the mold of PP.

[hpantazo]

as prospects going forward it would be hard not to have Ball #1.  Smart and Kuzma are clearly the bottom 2.  I still have no idea what to make of Ingram, but thus far haven't seen enough to put him above 4.  I'd put Tatum 2 and Brown 3.

I have seen absolutely nothing from Ball so far this season or in preseason or summer league to suggest he is a better prospect than any of the other players in that list. None.

[Monkhouse]

as prospects going forward it would be hard not to have Ball #1.  Smart and Kuzma are clearly the bottom 2.  I still have no idea what to make of Ingram, but thus far haven't seen enough to put him above 4.  I'd put Tatum 2 and Brown 3.

as prospects going forward it would be hard not to have Ball #1.  Smart and Kuzma are clearly the bottom 2.  I still have no idea what to make of Ingram, but thus far haven't seen enough to put him above 4.  I'd put Tatum 2 and Brown 3.

I have seen absolutely nothing from Ball so far this season or in preseason or summer league to suggest he is a better prospect than any of the other players in that list. None.

Literally what I think... Tatum is far ahead of the learning curve than Ball...

[Moranis]

as prospects going forward it would be hard not to have Ball #1.  Smart and Kuzma are clearly the bottom 2.  I still have no idea what to make of Ingram, but thus far haven't seen enough to put him above 4.  I'd put Tatum 2 and Brown 3.

I have seen absolutely nothing from Ball so far this season or in preseason or summer league to suggest he is a better prospect than any of the other players in that list. None.

Ball is shooting terribly, absolutely no question about that, but he is very active everywhere else.  He has a very strong assist to turnover ratio, he is getting to the boards very well, he is generating steals, etc.  Once he gets his shooting up to a more reasonable percentage (he was a very strong shooter at UCLA), his points will go up a great deal and you will have a huge PG averaging in the 15/7/7 range as a rookie.  PG's and C's are the two positions that are the hardest transitions to the pros.  No question Tatum and Brown have both played far better than Ball this year, but I'd still rate Ball as a higher end long term prospect.

[jpotter33]

as prospects going forward it would be hard not to have Ball #1.  Smart and Kuzma are clearly the bottom 2.  I still have no idea what to make of Ingram, but thus far haven't seen enough to put him above 4.  I'd put Tatum 2 and Brown 3.

I have seen absolutely nothing from Ball so far this season or in preseason or summer league to suggest he is a better prospect than any of the other players in that list. None.

Ball is shooting terribly, absolutely no question about that, but he is very active everywhere else.  He has a very strong assist to turnover ratio, he is getting to the boards very well, he is generating steals, etc.  Once he gets his shooting up to a more reasonable percentage (he was a very strong shooter at UCLA), his points will go up a great deal and you will have a huge PG averaging in the 15/7/7 range as a rookie.  PG's and C's are the two positions that are the hardest transitions to the pros.  No question Tatum and Brown have both played far better than Ball this year, but I'd still rate Ball as a higher end long term prospect.

Except unless he changes that funky shot of his, he'll never shoot a significantly higher percentage. That shot movement is just not conducive to consistency.

[footey]

as prospects going forward it would be hard not to have Ball #1.  Smart and Kuzma are clearly the bottom 2.  I still have no idea what to make of Ingram, but thus far haven't seen enough to put him above 4.  I'd put Tatum 2 and Brown 3.

I have seen absolutely nothing from Ball so far this season or in preseason or summer league to suggest he is a better prospect than any of the other players in that list. None.

Ball is shooting terribly, absolutely no question about that, but he is very active everywhere else.  He has a very strong assist to turnover ratio, he is getting to the boards very well, he is generating steals, etc.  Once he gets his shooting up to a more reasonable percentage (he was a very strong shooter at UCLA), his points will go up a great deal and you will have a huge PG averaging in the 15/7/7 range as a rookie.  PG's and C's are the two positions that are the hardest transitions to the pros.  No question Tatum and Brown have both played far better than Ball this year, but I'd still rate Ball as a higher end long term prospect.

I watched the show.

He wasn't rating them on how they will be as prospects.

He was rating them on how they were playing currently. Thus why he ranked Kuzma as highly as he did.

Rating them as prospects is a completely different discussion.

[Donoghus]

as prospects going forward it would be hard not to have Ball #1.  Smart and Kuzma are clearly the bottom 2.  I still have no idea what to make of Ingram, but thus far haven't seen enough to put him above 4.  I'd put Tatum 2 and Brown 3.

I have seen absolutely nothing from Ball so far this season or in preseason or summer league to suggest he is a better prospect than any of the other players in that list. None.

Ball is shooting terribly, absolutely no question about that, but he is very active everywhere else.  He has a very strong assist to turnover ratio, he is getting to the boards very well, he is generating steals, etc.  Once he gets his shooting up to a more reasonable percentage (he was a very strong shooter at UCLA), his points will go up a great deal and you will have a huge PG averaging in the 15/7/7 range as a rookie.  PG's and C's are the two positions that are the hardest transitions to the pros.  No question Tatum and Brown have both played far better than Ball this year, but I'd still rate Ball as a higher end long term prospect.

Except unless he changes that funky shot of his, he'll never shoot a significantly higher percentage. That shot movement is just not conducive to consistency.

I just think there are too many "what ifs" for Ball that have to break right in order to get him to #1.

[slamtheking]

as prospects going forward it would be hard not to have Ball #1.  Smart and Kuzma are clearly the bottom 2.  I still have no idea what to make of Ingram, but thus far haven't seen enough to put him above 4.  I'd put Tatum 2 and Brown 3.

I have seen absolutely nothing from Ball so far this season or in preseason or summer league to suggest he is a better prospect than any of the other players in that list. None.

Ball is shooting terribly, absolutely no question about that, but he is very active everywhere else.  He has a very strong assist to turnover ratio, he is getting to the boards very well, he is generating steals, etc.  Once IF he gets his shooting up to a more reasonable percentage (he was a very strong shooter at UCLA), his points will go up a great deal and you will have a huge PG averaging in the 15/7/7 range as a rookie.  PG's and C's are the two positions that are the hardest transitions to the pros.  No question Tatum and Brown have both played far better than Ball this year, but I'd still rate Ball as a higher end long term prospect.

fixed that for you.
 
Right now, his ceiling looks like Playoff Rondo until he can do something about his shooting.  While I love Playoff Rondo, I'd take Tatum and Brown over him without hesitation. 

What I found interesting was that Randle didn't make that list.  Even with all the people bemoaning us taking Smart over Randle in the draft and glorifying Randle's offense/rebounding,  I find it interesting that a national pundit feels Smart is still the better player.  Personally I agree but good to see someone without green glasses seeing the same thing.

[colincb]

Ball is clearly the worst of the 6 now and unlikely to get into the top 3.

[Moranis]

as prospects going forward it would be hard not to have Ball #1.  Smart and Kuzma are clearly the bottom 2.  I still have no idea what to make of Ingram, but thus far haven't seen enough to put him above 4.  I'd put Tatum 2 and Brown 3.

I have seen absolutely nothing from Ball so far this season or in preseason or summer league to suggest he is a better prospect than any of the other players in that list. None.

Ball is shooting terribly, absolutely no question about that, but he is very active everywhere else.  He has a very strong assist to turnover ratio, he is getting to the boards very well, he is generating steals, etc.  Once he gets his shooting up to a more reasonable percentage (he was a very strong shooter at UCLA), his points will go up a great deal and you will have a huge PG averaging in the 15/7/7 range as a rookie.  PG's and C's are the two positions that are the hardest transitions to the pros.  No question Tatum and Brown have both played far better than Ball this year, but I'd still rate Ball as a higher end long term prospect.

I watched the show.

He wasn't rating them on how they will be as prospects.

He was rating them on how they were playing currently. Thus why he ranked Kuzma as highly as he did.

Rating them as prospects is a completely different discussion.

I didn't watch it and was just basing it off the OP's post where he indicated he was talking about them as prospects going forward. 

if it is just based on this year I have no problem with the rankings.

[Moranis]

as prospects going forward it would be hard not to have Ball #1.  Smart and Kuzma are clearly the bottom 2.  I still have no idea what to make of Ingram, but thus far haven't seen enough to put him above 4.  I'd put Tatum 2 and Brown 3.

I have seen absolutely nothing from Ball so far this season or in preseason or summer league to suggest he is a better prospect than any of the other players in that list. None.

Ball is shooting terribly, absolutely no question about that, but he is very active everywhere else.  He has a very strong assist to turnover ratio, he is getting to the boards very well, he is generating steals, etc.  Once he gets his shooting up to a more reasonable percentage (he was a very strong shooter at UCLA), his points will go up a great deal and you will have a huge PG averaging in the 15/7/7 range as a rookie.  PG's and C's are the two positions that are the hardest transitions to the pros.  No question Tatum and Brown have both played far better than Ball this year, but I'd still rate Ball as a higher end long term prospect.

Except unless he changes that funky shot of his, he'll never shoot a significantly higher percentage. That shot movement is just not conducive to consistency.

except he has consistently shot at a high level at every level even with that shot technique.  You don't go from a 55/41 shooter to a 30/23 shooter overnight.  I'm sure he won't shoot as well in the NBA as he did at UCLA, but he won't be this bad either.  PG is the hardest position to transition to at the professional level and it is even harder for someone in Ball's position on such a visible team, with a visible father, and an organization that has dubbed you the next Magic Johnson.  There is a lot of pressure on Lonzo.  He will start to get more comfortable and he will shoot better. 

[colincb]

as prospects going forward it would be hard not to have Ball #1.  Smart and Kuzma are clearly the bottom 2.  I still have no idea what to make of Ingram, but thus far haven't seen enough to put him above 4.  I'd put Tatum 2 and Brown 3.

I have seen absolutely nothing from Ball so far this season or in preseason or summer league to suggest he is a better prospect than any of the other players in that list. None.

Ball is shooting terribly, absolutely no question about that, but he is very active everywhere else.  He has a very strong assist to turnover ratio, he is getting to the boards very well, he is generating steals, etc.  Once he gets his shooting up to a more reasonable percentage (he was a very strong shooter at UCLA), his points will go up a great deal and you will have a huge PG averaging in the 15/7/7 range as a rookie.  PG's and C's are the two positions that are the hardest transitions to the pros.  No question Tatum and Brown have both played far better than Ball this year, but I'd still rate Ball as a higher end long term prospect.

Except unless he changes that funky shot of his, he'll never shoot a significantly higher percentage. That shot movement is just not conducive to consistency.

I just think there are too many "what ifs" for Ball that have to break right in order to get him to #1.

Including other guys now ahead of him not reaching their potential.