Author Topic: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)  (Read 40368 times)

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Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #105 on: November 12, 2017, 12:46:49 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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The problem that we have in society at this moment that permeates everything all the way up and into our government is that accountability and consequences have been largely removed from society. We live in a country where if you make a poor choice as a child most parents do not have consequences. There is no follow through. Athletes give examples that when you do something criminal you apologize, but then and go plead not guilty in court to try and have your lawyers get you off with no consequences. Afterwards they get a little slap on the wrist they can say they have "learned" from their mistakes and grown. No they didn't. They lied about their mistakes to get out of consequences and want everyone to pretend it didn't happen.

What SHOULD happen is these three should face the consequences of their actions according to what the laws in China are. They have admitted that they stole things. It was THREE different stores that they stole from if you read everything out there. Sorry doesn't work when you are an adult. Even though LaVar taught his children that they are better than everyone else and deserve more than everyone else he is wrong. And Chinese law says differently. If you are old enough to be a man and act that way, then be man enough to take the consequences for your actions!

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #106 on: November 12, 2017, 12:48:39 PM »

Offline matteo

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I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".

How harshly? I mean, these are kids that did something stupid all in the same basic time frame. It's not like they beat somebody with a baseball bat and stole their car.

Maybe I just have a different perspective - I purchase and rent condos in Florida. When I have an eviction, I am out at least two months rent (usually, three) plus the cost of the eviction. My loss on an eviction is in the thousands - it is terrible. And there is no real way to ever collect the money. Think about it, these people essentially 'steal' thousands of dollars from me and absolutely nothing happens to them.

So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies and I think everybody who is ready to lay the hammer down really needs to take a big chill pill. I didn't know we had so many perfect members of society on CB.

I also have over 100 rental units in MA, (an extremely pro-tenant state) and lose just as much if not more for every eviction.  I have to follow the law, it comes with the territory of owning rental property here so I have no complaints.  I also have some retail stores.  When someone steals from me I feel they should be prosecuted, and I do whatever I can to help the police in their investigation, cause it's "the law"....Maybe I just have a different perspective

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #107 on: November 12, 2017, 12:57:56 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".

How harshly? I mean, these are kids that did something stupid all in the same basic time frame. It's not like they beat somebody with a baseball bat and stole their car.

Maybe I just have a different perspective - I purchase and rent condos in Florida. When I have an eviction, I am out at least two months rent (usually, three) plus the cost of the eviction. My loss on an eviction is in the thousands - it is terrible. And there is no real way to ever collect the money. Think about it, these people essentially 'steal' thousands of dollars from me and absolutely nothing happens to them.

So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies and I think everybody who is ready to lay the hammer down really needs to take a big chill pill. I didn't know we had so many perfect members of society on CB.

Your comparison is really apples to oranges. They don't steal anything from you and you simply have to adhere to the laws to have them evicted. As a landlord your rights are limited and even if renters damaged property your only recourse would be to sue them civilly. However, if "kids" would unlawfully enter your rented property and subsequently vandalized it wouldn't you feel differently about the punishment they're faced with? How about if the same group of "kids" committed the same act in 3 of your condos? Would you want them punished or just shrug and say "no big deal"?

Talk about apples to oranges. My condos aren't 'open for business'. The only people allowed in them are the tenants who rent from me. I have had several break-ins and have had to replace some sliding glass doors (more expensive than you would think) and that is entirely different. Still, even though I have never heard of any arrests from these break-ins, if a 'stupid kid' was the person who did it and it was his first offense (and he was unarmed), I would not want him to go to jail. In the case of these young men, it seems the businesses will actually collect back their merchandise - no real harm in the end.

And you may not see these people as stealing, but they sign a lease committing to paying a certain amount over an entire year. If somebody else had rented the unit instead of them, I would have received the money that I very much count on. Instead, I am unable to rent the unit as they are happily living in the unit rent free, and on top of that there are significant legal fees. And, you are right about damages - have you ever entered the unit of a tenant who has been evicted? It isn't pretty.

Like I said, perhaps I have just had a lot more experience with people screwing me and knowing how to let it go. Apparently you and others have not gained that experience and are hell-bent on prosecuting every single person who does anything remotely wrong. Just realize, you or somebody you love may be on the other side someday and you will surely be begging for a break at that point.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 01:04:29 PM by jambr380 »

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #108 on: November 12, 2017, 01:01:46 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".

How harshly? I mean, these are kids that did something stupid all in the same basic time frame. It's not like they beat somebody with a baseball bat and stole their car.

Maybe I just have a different perspective - I purchase and rent condos in Florida. When I have an eviction, I am out at least two months rent (usually, three) plus the cost of the eviction. My loss on an eviction is in the thousands - it is terrible. And there is no real way to ever collect the money. Think about it, these people essentially 'steal' thousands of dollars from me and absolutely nothing happens to them.

So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies and I think everybody who is ready to lay the hammer down really needs to take a big chill pill. I didn't know we had so many perfect members of society on CB.

I also have over 100 rental units in MA, (an extremely pro-tenant state) and lose just as much if not more for every eviction.  I have to follow the law, it comes with the territory of owning rental property here so I have no complaints.  I also have some retail stores.  When someone steals from me I feel they should be prosecuted, and I do whatever I can to help the police in their investigation, cause it's "the law"....Maybe I just have a different perspective

It must be really cool being you. I hope I can one day reach the direction of your moral compass.

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #109 on: November 12, 2017, 01:14:50 PM »

Online Roy H.

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So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies

Nothing at all? No fine, no suspension?

Personally I’d expel him.


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Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #110 on: November 12, 2017, 01:20:13 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".

How harshly? I mean, these are kids that did something stupid all in the same basic time frame. It's not like they beat somebody with a baseball bat and stole their car.

Maybe I just have a different perspective - I purchase and rent condos in Florida. When I have an eviction, I am out at least two months rent (usually, three) plus the cost of the eviction. My loss on an eviction is in the thousands - it is terrible. And there is no real way to ever collect the money. Think about it, these people essentially 'steal' thousands of dollars from me and absolutely nothing happens to them.

So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies and I think everybody who is ready to lay the hammer down really needs to take a big chill pill. I didn't know we had so many perfect members of society on CB.

Your comparison is really apples to oranges. They don't steal anything from you and you simply have to adhere to the laws to have them evicted. As a landlord your rights are limited and even if renters damaged property your only recourse would be to sue them civilly. However, if "kids" would unlawfully enter your rented property and subsequently vandalized it wouldn't you feel differently about the punishment they're faced with? How about if the same group of "kids" committed the same act in 3 of your condos? Would you want them punished or just shrug and say "no big deal"?

Talk about apples to oranges. My condos aren't 'open for business'. The only people allowed in them are the tenants who rent from me. I have had several break-ins and have had to replace some sliding glass doors (more expensive than you would think) and that is entirely different. Still, even though I have never heard of any arrests from these break-ins, if a 'stupid kid' was the person who did it and it was first offense (and he was unarmed), I would not want him/her to go to jail. In the case of these young men, it seems the businesses will actually collect back their merchandise - no real harm in the end.

And you may not see these people as stealing, but they sign a lease committing to paying a certain amount over an entire year. If somebody else had rented the unit instead of them, I would have received the money that I very much count on. Instead, I am unable to rent the unit as they are happily living in the unit rent free, and on top of that there are significant legal fees. And, you are right about damages - have you ever entered the unit of a tenant who has been evicted? It isn't pretty.

Like I said, perhaps I have just had a lot more experience with people screwing me and knowing how to let it go. Apparently you and others have not gained that experience and are hell-bent on prosecuting every single person who does anything remotely wrong. Just realize, you or somebody you love may be on the other side someday and you will surely be begging for a break at that point.

I know your condos aren't open for business, but your comparing your situation (a civil matter) with a retail theft (a criminal matter). It's not me that doesn't see your situation as being theft, despite your loss of money, it's actually the law that identifies it as being civil. And yes, I have seen individuals that's residences have been evicted and despite the deplorable conditions there is nothing you can do from a criminal standpoint.

As far as not wanting someone that breaks in to your place to go to jail that is purely nonsensical. That's a burglary. That's not just a theft. You have to be extremely brazen to burglarize a place and with it should come proper punishment. Your mindset of not wanting them to go to jail because it was a first offense is really missing the big picture. If everyone has that marrow point of view then the same subject could continue to do the same thing without any recourse, since no victim would ever press charges.

I prefer to charge them accordingly so when they do something felonious, be it on a smaller or larger scale, it's not a first time offense because bleeding hearts like yourself have not wanted to  to act. A persons record matters in sentencing. Now how would you feel if the person that you let walk for a burglary would get a soft punishment after now committing another, more heinous act, simply because you felt sorry for the "kid"?

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #111 on: November 12, 2017, 01:22:13 PM »

Offline jambr380

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So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies

Nothing at all? No fine, no suspension?

Personally I’d expel him.

I was speaking specifically on jail time - I should have clarified. He should be fined, given a misdemeanor, and perhaps even be required to do community service (depending on the value of the merchandise).

UCLA should do as they feel as these are scholarship athletes who have been given the great privilege of attending their school. If they are expelled, they should accept the consequences as they have shamed the university.


Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #112 on: November 12, 2017, 01:27:32 PM »

Offline Eja117

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This whole "They were stupid kids" thing....well why can't we punish stupidity? Did you make any effort whatsoever to understand the exchange rate on those shades? Did you consider the average salary of people in China whatsoever and then to to relate it to what you were stealing?  You made no effort to think of the world around you. No effort to be observant or thoughtful. Just thought of yourself. Fine. You're stupid. Now go to jail. Obviously you haven't been able to gain any knowledge or intelligence in the rest of the world. Maybe jail will help you out. Then maybe you won't be so stupid next time.

So, what happens next? These guys get a big fat felony and jail time - Awesome! Everybody knows that 18 year olds are mature, rational adults who always show a genuine understanding of the world and those around them. They totally deserve to never find a decent job and be banned from living in apartment/condo complexes all because they so sinfully stole a freakin' pair of sunglasses when they were teenagers.

I am really disappointed in your opinion and others who think in such black and white terms - very troubling that [many] people feel the way you do.
Ah yes. The stereotype that if you do some time you can never find work or a place to live ever again. Spare me.

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #113 on: November 12, 2017, 01:30:42 PM »

Offline Eja117

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I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".

How harshly? I mean, these are kids that did something stupid all in the same basic time frame. It's not like they beat somebody with a baseball bat and stole their car.

Maybe I just have a different perspective - I purchase and rent condos in Florida. When I have an eviction, I am out at least two months rent (usually, three) plus the cost of the eviction. My loss on an eviction is in the thousands - it is terrible. And there is no real way to ever collect the money. Think about it, these people essentially 'steal' thousands of dollars from me and absolutely nothing happens to them.

So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies and I think everybody who is ready to lay the hammer down really needs to take a big chill pill. I didn't know we had so many perfect members of society on CB.

Your comparison is really apples to oranges. They don't steal anything from you and you simply have to adhere to the laws to have them evicted. As a landlord your rights are limited and even if renters damaged property your only recourse would be to sue them civilly. However, if "kids" would unlawfully enter your rented property and subsequently vandalized it wouldn't you feel differently about the punishment they're faced with? How about if the same group of "kids" committed the same act in 3 of your condos? Would you want them punished or just shrug and say "no big deal"?

Talk about apples to oranges. My condos aren't 'open for business'. The only people allowed in them are the tenants who rent from me. I have had several break-ins and have had to replace some sliding glass doors (more expensive than you would think) and that is entirely different. Still, even though I have never heard of any arrests from these break-ins, if a 'stupid kid' was the person who did it and it was his first offense (and he was unarmed), I would not want him to go to jail. In the case of these young men, it seems the businesses will actually collect back their merchandise - no real harm in the end.

And you may not see these people as stealing, but they sign a lease committing to paying a certain amount over an entire year. If somebody else had rented the unit instead of them, I would have received the money that I very much count on. Instead, I am unable to rent the unit as they are happily living in the unit rent free, and on top of that there are significant legal fees. And, you are right about damages - have you ever entered the unit of a tenant who has been evicted? It isn't pretty.

Like I said, perhaps I have just had a lot more experience with people screwing me and knowing how to let it go. Apparently you and others have not gained that experience and are hell-bent on prosecuting every single person who does anything remotely wrong. Just realize, you or somebody you love may be on the other side someday and you will surely be begging for a break at that point.
Nope. Nope. I won't be on the other side. I won't be stealing anything in China. Won't happen.

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #114 on: November 12, 2017, 01:30:54 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I'd be absolutely shocked if UCLA didn't kick these guys out of school.

People seem to forget that this whole thing also sort of tarnishes their name (UCLA) and reputation a bit, and the fact that they did it in a foreign country... YIKES.

As for the punishments over at China... I mean I know they should be acting like adults and it was extremely stupid of them to do what they did, but I fear the Chinese could come down extremely hard on them, which I would not advocate at all.

Like give them some jail time, make them do community service and pay a fine, sure, but potentially having 5-7+ years in jail and a big fine.....  :o
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #115 on: November 12, 2017, 01:33:10 PM »

Offline Eja117

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So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies

Nothing at all? No fine, no suspension?

Personally I’d expel him.

I was speaking specifically on jail time - I should have clarified. He should be fined, given a misdemeanor, and perhaps even be required to do community service (depending on the value of the merchandise).

UCLA should do as they feel as these are scholarship athletes who have been given the great privilege of attending their school. If they are expelled, they should accept the consequences as they have shamed the university.
What do you do when other landlords call you for a reference? Granted they probably don't put you down.  Do you rent to them again in the future? File anything? Keep the deposit?

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #116 on: November 12, 2017, 01:36:24 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".

How harshly? I mean, these are kids that did something stupid all in the same basic time frame. It's not like they beat somebody with a baseball bat and stole their car.

Maybe I just have a different perspective - I purchase and rent condos in Florida. When I have an eviction, I am out at least two months rent (usually, three) plus the cost of the eviction. My loss on an eviction is in the thousands - it is terrible. And there is no real way to ever collect the money. Think about it, these people essentially 'steal' thousands of dollars from me and absolutely nothing happens to them.

So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies and I think everybody who is ready to lay the hammer down really needs to take a big chill pill. I didn't know we had so many perfect members of society on CB.

Your comparison is really apples to oranges. They don't steal anything from you and you simply have to adhere to the laws to have them evicted. As a landlord your rights are limited and even if renters damaged property your only recourse would be to sue them civilly. However, if "kids" would unlawfully enter your rented property and subsequently vandalized it wouldn't you feel differently about the punishment they're faced with? How about if the same group of "kids" committed the same act in 3 of your condos? Would you want them punished or just shrug and say "no big deal"?

Talk about apples to oranges. My condos aren't 'open for business'. The only people allowed in them are the tenants who rent from me. I have had several break-ins and have had to replace some sliding glass doors (more expensive than you would think) and that is entirely different. Still, even though I have never heard of any arrests from these break-ins, if a 'stupid kid' was the person who did it and it was first offense (and he was unarmed), I would not want him/her to go to jail. In the case of these young men, it seems the businesses will actually collect back their merchandise - no real harm in the end.

And you may not see these people as stealing, but they sign a lease committing to paying a certain amount over an entire year. If somebody else had rented the unit instead of them, I would have received the money that I very much count on. Instead, I am unable to rent the unit as they are happily living in the unit rent free, and on top of that there are significant legal fees. And, you are right about damages - have you ever entered the unit of a tenant who has been evicted? It isn't pretty.

Like I said, perhaps I have just had a lot more experience with people screwing me and knowing how to let it go. Apparently you and others have not gained that experience and are hell-bent on prosecuting every single person who does anything remotely wrong. Just realize, you or somebody you love may be on the other side someday and you will surely be begging for a break at that point.

I know your condos aren't open for business, but your comparing your situation (a civil matter) with a retail theft (a criminal matter). It's not me that doesn't see your situation as being theft, despite your loss of money, it's actually the law that identifies it as being civil. And yes, I have seen individuals that's residences have been evicted and despite the deplorable conditions there is nothing you can do from a criminal standpoint.

As far as not wanting someone that breaks in to your place to go to jail that is purely nonsensical. That's a burglary. That's not just a theft. You have to be extremely brazen to burglarize a place and with it should come proper punishment. Your mindset of not wanting them to go to jail because it was a first offense is really missing the big picture. If everyone has that marrow point of view then the same subject could continue to do the same thing without any recourse, since no victim would ever press charges.

I prefer to charge them accordingly so when they do something felonious, be it on a smaller or larger scale, it's not a first time offense because bleeding hearts like yourself have not wanted to  to act. A persons record matters in sentencing. Now how would you feel if the person that you let walk for a burglary would get a soft punishment after now committing another, more heinous act, simply because you felt sorry for the "kid"?

I don't think all people who burglarize a place should be let free, I just think every situation should be viewed separately. In several of the break-ins that occurred at my places, nothing was actually stolen. If these were kids who had never previously done anything wrong, then I would rather they not go to prison. It should be documented and there should be consequences, but I am much more in favor of rehabilitation than punishment for non-violent crimes. Peoples lives are ruined forever for things they did when they were young.

To bring this back on topic, I do believe breaking into somebody's home is considerably worse than shoplifting from a couple of stores.

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #117 on: November 12, 2017, 01:43:20 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Rehab and punishment aren't at all mutually exclusive

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #118 on: November 12, 2017, 01:45:38 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Ah yes. The stereotype that if you do some time you can never find work or a place to live ever again. Spare me.

I can verify that all of the HOA in which I own have a no felony policy - no exceptions.

Nope. Nope. I won't be on the other side. I won't be stealing anything in China. Won't happen.
I would guess not (and I know you are just poking fun), but there are many other scenarios that could play out. You never know what you may be faced with.

What do you do when other landlords call you for a reference? Granted they probably don't put you down.  Do you rent to them again in the future? File anything? Keep the deposit?

I actually have been contacted by a couple of landlords for these people - the nerve, right? I have always been leery of giving negative references so I just confirm the dates they lived there and ask them if they've done a background/credit check (where the eviction will show up). You can keep the deposit - it is not customary to collect last month rent in FL - and you have a judgment for far less than the actual loss which is nearly impossible to ever collect.

Rehab and punishment aren't at all mutually exclusive

Nope, not at all - except when they are (as in the case with drug users). Otherwise it just depends on how severe the crime was and if they are repeat offenders. The 3 strikes rule needs to disappear, though.

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #119 on: November 12, 2017, 01:49:44 PM »

Offline Eja117

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I'm not a criminologist by any means but isn't it true that roughly speaking the 3 strikes rules has correlated (correlation.....not necessarily causation) with a huge national decline in crime?

 

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