Author Topic: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)  (Read 40374 times)

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Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #90 on: November 12, 2017, 10:40:25 AM »

Offline jambr380

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I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #91 on: November 12, 2017, 10:57:56 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
hee hee. you would rather see an american level penalty - such as life in prison mentioned above? i agree prison time for kids shoplifting is severe in any country.

by the way, in the US:
1. In the past 30 years, the United States has come to rely on imprisonment as its response
to all types of crime. Even minor violations of parole or probation often lead
to a return to prison. This has created a prison system of unprecedented size in this
country.
2. The US incarcerates the largest number of people in the world.
3. The incarceration rate in the US is four times the world average.
4. Some individual US states imprison up to six times as many people as do
nations of comparable population.
5. The US imprisons the most women in the world.
6. Crime rates do not account for incarceration rates.

https://www.nccdglobal.org/sites/default/files/publication_pdf/factsheet-us-incarceration.pdf

by the way, what penalty has ball received from the chinese state thus far? i read that he, and the others, are stuck in their hotel for a few weeks and can never come back to china without permission.

my basic points for all of the above would be that
1. ball should not have done what he did. incredibly bad judgement and thinking. i hope he can see that now and change. has he apologized so far? and what will his father make of all this?
2. being punished for shoplifting is understandable. jail time is not, in my mind. China has delivered punishment that does not include jail time. good for them on this point.
3. before anyone actually compares prison/crime/legal systems between countries, it is probably wise to do some research prior to posting.
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Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #92 on: November 12, 2017, 11:00:31 AM »

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I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

Not all shoplifting is created equal. Stealing from Gucci and Louis Vuitton isn’t the same as taking some plastic glasses from Walmart.

In Maine, stealing up to $500 is a Class E misdemeanor, punishable by up to 6 months (but usually a fine for a 1st offense).  $500 - $999 is a Class D misdemeanor, punishable by up to 364 Days, but again, usually a fine for a first offense.  Over $1000 is a felony, though, and can include sentences up to five years. Even a first offense usually has a short sentence, with further probation (and jail / prison time possible for probation violations).

Obviously, repeat offenders are treated more harshly. A third offense, no matter the value, can be charged as a felony.


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Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #93 on: November 12, 2017, 11:32:32 AM »

Offline jambr380

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I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

Not all shoplifting is created equal. Stealing from Gucci and Louis Vuitton isn’t the same as taking some plastic glasses from Walmart.

In Maine, stealing up to $500 is a Class E misdemeanor, punishable by up to 6 months (but usually a fine for a 1st offense).  $500 - $999 is a Class D misdemeanor, punishable by up to 364 Days, but again, usually a fine for a first offense.  Over $1000 is a felony, though, and can include sentences up to five years. Even a first offense usually has a short sentence, with further probation (and jail / prison time possible for probation violations).

Obviously, repeat offenders are treated more harshly. A third offense, no matter the value, can be charged as a felony.

Thanks for providing the specifics and I generally agree with what you have said. Of course, the value of said merchandise plays a large role in a given judgment, I just don't think what these 'stupid' kids did warrants jail time. The U.S. likes to punish people and others often point their fingers and shake their heads yelling, 'shame!' as if they've never done anything wrong before. Not all crimes are the same and this one is about as 'lower end' as they get.

First time offenders for anything like this should get a lower end Misdemeanor which should be able to be expunged from their record after a couple of years with good behavior.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 11:45:44 AM by jambr380 »

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #94 on: November 12, 2017, 11:55:14 AM »

Offline Eja117

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I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.
Well let's not judge China by their worst example then.

This reminds me of the American kid that got caned in Singapore. The official position of the US was that the damage the kid did to the cars was temporary while his punishment would leave permanent scars and therefore it was inappropriate. In very different and very polite words Singapore basically responded "Yeah, but our cities are gorgeous while yours look like crud and maybe this has something to do with it."

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #95 on: November 12, 2017, 11:59:41 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Lavar might have th sell his new house to get his boy out of jail.

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #96 on: November 12, 2017, 12:03:23 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

I do. Shoplifters are no different from Snatchers, and they too deserve it.

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #97 on: November 12, 2017, 12:06:07 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

Not all shoplifting is created equal. Stealing from Gucci and Louis Vuitton isn’t the same as taking some plastic glasses from Walmart.

In Maine, stealing up to $500 is a Class E misdemeanor, punishable by up to 6 months (but usually a fine for a 1st offense).  $500 - $999 is a Class D misdemeanor, punishable by up to 364 Days, but again, usually a fine for a first offense.  Over $1000 is a felony, though, and can include sentences up to five years. Even a first offense usually has a short sentence, with further probation (and jail / prison time possible for probation violations).

Obviously, repeat offenders are treated more harshly. A third offense, no matter the value, can be charged as a felony.

They're awfully lenient in Maine. For theft in Florida $300 and up is a felony.

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #98 on: November 12, 2017, 12:10:48 PM »

Offline Eja117

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I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

I do. Shoplifters are no different from Snatchers, and they too deserve it.
They aren't different from burglars or car thieves either.  In some states if an owner catches you in their home they can just blow your head off.  Good law. Very straightforward natural consequence. This is why burglary is so much higher in the UK and Denmark. They know in those places the worst you can do is throw a pastry at them. In the US a light on and a car in the driveway is one of the most effective security systems imaginable.

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #99 on: November 12, 2017, 12:11:39 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #100 on: November 12, 2017, 12:22:19 PM »

Offline Eja117

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This whole "They were stupid kids" thing....well why can't we punish stupidity? Did you make any effort whatsoever to understand the exchange rate on those shades? Did you consider the average salary of people in China whatsoever and then to to relate it to what you were stealing?  You made no effort to think of the world around you. No effort to be observant or thoughtful. Just thought of yourself. Fine. You're stupid. Now go to jail. Obviously you haven't been able to gain any knowledge or intelligence in the rest of the world. Maybe jail will help you out. Then maybe you won't be so stupid next time.

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #101 on: November 12, 2017, 12:25:41 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".

How harshly? I mean, these are kids that did something stupid all in the same basic time frame. It's not like they beat somebody with a baseball bat and stole their car.

Maybe I just have a different perspective - I purchase and rent condos in Florida. When I have an eviction, I am out at least two months rent (usually, three) plus the cost of the eviction. My loss on an eviction is in the thousands - it is terrible. And there is no real way to ever collect the money. Think about it, these people essentially 'steal' thousands of dollars from me and absolutely nothing happens to them.

So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies and I think everybody who is ready to lay the hammer down really needs to take a big chill pill. I didn't know we had so many perfect members of society on CB.

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #102 on: November 12, 2017, 12:35:13 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Why are people saying they're stupid kids? They aren't kids. They go to a world class university. They aren't supposed to be stupid either.

Why do we have to have such incredibly low expectations of UCLA freshmen? Why are we giving people credit for not doing things they aren't supposed to do?

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #103 on: November 12, 2017, 12:36:50 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".

How harshly? I mean, these are kids that did something stupid all in the same basic time frame. It's not like they beat somebody with a baseball bat and stole their car.

Maybe I just have a different perspective - I purchase and rent condos in Florida. When I have an eviction, I am out at least two months rent (usually, three) plus the cost of the eviction. My loss on an eviction is in the thousands - it is terrible. And there is no real way to ever collect the money. Think about it, these people essentially 'steal' thousands of dollars from me and absolutely nothing happens to them.

So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies and I think everybody who is ready to lay the hammer down really needs to take a big chill pill. I didn't know we had so many perfect members of society on CB.

Your comparison is really apples to oranges. They don't steal anything from you and you simply have to adhere to the laws to have them evicted. As a landlord your rights are limited and even if renters damaged property your only recourse would be to sue them civilly. However, if "kids" would unlawfully enter your rented property and subsequently vandalized it wouldn't you feel differently about the punishment they're faced with? How about if the same group of "kids" committed the same act in 3 of your condos? Would you want them punished or just shrug and say "no big deal"?

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #104 on: November 12, 2017, 12:45:44 PM »

Offline jambr380

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This whole "They were stupid kids" thing....well why can't we punish stupidity? Did you make any effort whatsoever to understand the exchange rate on those shades? Did you consider the average salary of people in China whatsoever and then to to relate it to what you were stealing?  You made no effort to think of the world around you. No effort to be observant or thoughtful. Just thought of yourself. Fine. You're stupid. Now go to jail. Obviously you haven't been able to gain any knowledge or intelligence in the rest of the world. Maybe jail will help you out. Then maybe you won't be so stupid next time.

So, what happens next? These guys get a big fat felony and jail time - Awesome! Everybody knows that 18 year olds are mature, rational adults who always show a genuine understanding of the world and those around them. They totally deserve to never find a decent job and be banned from living in apartment/condo complexes all because they so sinfully stole a freakin' pair of sunglasses when they were teenagers.

I am really disappointed in your opinion and others who think in such black and white terms - very troubling that [many] people feel the way you do.

 

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