Marcus Smart contract

[Sophomore]

His skillset doesn't include the most important skill.

Some bad team with cap room will overpay him.

Doing things that help your team win games is the most important skill set. He is going to get paid.

Oh, I've no doubt he'll get paid well. I don't think it will be by the Celtics. Some teams - mostly bad teams - will have a ton of cap space, and few players to burn it on. Someone will pay MS a lot more than he's worth.

And no, while the nitty gritty role Marcus plays is important, no skill is as important as being able to get your own shot, and/or be able to shoot 3s. Marcus can't do either. He's shooting 33%. Were it someone else, we could chalk it up to a bad start to the season. With Marcus, it's who he is. It's difficult to play winning basketball with that great of a handicap.

With Kryie, Tatum, Brown, Rozier, Hayward in the fold, I don't see the Celts getting into luxury tax over Smart. Fans can make some good points as to why we should, but I'd wager Marcus will be diving after loose balls somewhere else next season.

Yes to all that. Now suppose, too, that Baynes gets FA offers next year in the 10-15 million range. Are you spending that money on Baynes or Smart? Who do you really need? Smart is nice, but Bayne plugs a massive hole in this lineup. Also, suppose we get lucky and Lakers 2-5 conveys. That's 5-8 million a year locked up in another player we probably have to take (assuming there's no shoot-for-the-moon trade available, which you can't count on). When you choose Smart, you're not choosing something else.

[Green-18]

His skillset doesn't include the most important skill.

Some bad team with cap room will overpay him.

Doing things that help your team win games is the most important skill set. He is going to get paid.

Oh, I've no doubt he'll get paid well. I don't think it will be by the Celtics. Some teams - mostly bad teams - will have a ton of cap space, and few players to burn it on. Someone will pay MS a lot more than he's worth.

And no, while the nitty gritty role Marcus plays is important, no skill is as important as being able to get your own shot, and/or be able to shoot 3s. Marcus can't do either. He's shooting 33%. Were it someone else, we could chalk it up to a bad start to the season. With Marcus, it's who he is. It's difficult to play winning basketball with that great of a handicap.

With Kryie, Tatum, Brown, Rozier, Hayward in the fold, I don't see the Celts getting into luxury tax over Smart. Fans can make some good points as to why we should, but I'd wager Marcus will be diving after loose balls somewhere else next season.

Yes to all that. Now suppose, too, that Baynes gets FA offers next year in the 10-15 million range. Are you spending that money on Baynes or Smart? Who do you really need? Smart is nice, but Bayne plugs a massive hole in this lineup. Also, suppose we get lucky and Lakers 2-5 conveys. That's 5-8 million a year locked up in another player we probably have to take (assuming there's no shoot-for-the-moon trade available, which you can't count on). When you choose Smart, you're not choosing something else.

It's a great question.  Baynes is such a perfect fit.  He fills our defensive and rebounding gaps while shooting 50% from 10-16 feet.  In a vacuum I pick Marcus but Terry Rozier makes Smart more expendable than Baynes.

If the Lakers pick conveys then I think we are more likely to let Baynes walk due to the abundance of big men in next years draft. 

[smokeablount]

His skillset doesn't include the most important skill.

Some bad team with cap room will overpay him.

Doing things that help your team win games is the most important skill set. He is going to get paid.

Oh, I've no doubt he'll get paid well. I don't think it will be by the Celtics. Some teams - mostly bad teams - will have a ton of cap space, and few players to burn it on. Someone will pay MS a lot more than he's worth.

And no, while the nitty gritty role Marcus plays is important, no skill is as important as being able to get your own shot, and/or be able to shoot 3s. Marcus can't do either. He's shooting 33%. Were it someone else, we could chalk it up to a bad start to the season. With Marcus, it's who he is. It's difficult to play winning basketball with that great of a handicap.

With Kryie, Tatum, Brown, Rozier, Hayward in the fold, I don't see the Celts getting into luxury tax over Smart. Fans can make some good points as to why we should, but I'd wager Marcus will be diving after loose balls somewhere else next season.

Yes to all that. Now suppose, too, that Baynes gets FA offers next year in the 10-15 million range. Are you spending that money on Baynes or Smart? Who do you really need? Smart is nice, but Bayne plugs a massive hole in this lineup. Also, suppose we get lucky and Lakers 2-5 conveys. That's 5-8 million a year locked up in another player we probably have to take (assuming there's no shoot-for-the-moon trade available, which you can't count on). When you choose Smart, you're not choosing something else.

It's a great question.  Baynes is such a perfect fit.  He fills our defensive and rebounding gaps while shooting 50% from 10-16 feet.  In a vacuum I pick Marcus but Terry Rozier makes Smart more expendable than Baynes.

If the Lakers pick conveys then I think we are more likely to let Baynes walk due to the abundance of big men in next years draft.

As it stands now, I’d rather have Baynes than Smart, and he should be cheaper. Smart should be somewhat replaceable with one of our upcoming picks. You can find defensive hustle guys with intangibles in the mid-late first. Maybe not as good as Smart, but I’ll live with that. 

Having said that, if Smart would just take what the defense gives him with his shooting, and can lift his percentages, I'd love to keep him here.  The thing is, I know he's still young, but how many years have I been saying exactly that...

[Eja117]

Unless Marcus comes at a complete bargain, I’m not resigning him at all.

Me neither. Rozier has surpassed him

[Tr1boy]

His skillset doesn't include the most important skill.

Some bad team with cap room will overpay him.

Prob nets

[kozlodoev]

Unless Marcus comes at a complete bargain, I’m not resigning him at all.

Me neither. Rozier has surpassed him

Rozier was awful for most of the night last night and is generally a worse black hole than Smart, minus the defense. Smart is hard to stomach at times but is the better player.

[BitterJim]

Down here in Rocky Top, I don't get the day-to-day details on Celtics.  Please explain to me why we did not extend Smart's contract. According to Marcus, he was not asking for anything unreasonable. I hope Danny does not get carried away being too cold and calculating.

Marcus Smart is exactly the type of player you win titles with - yes, he needs to improve shot selection, but that is on Stevens. Smart's intangibles and amazing ability to deliver big plays in crunch time cannot be replaced. I also am very much enjoying the Celtics return to being the bully on the block. We lost that when we stupidly traded Perk. Marcus Smart is the guard's version of Kendrick Perkins with a little extra talent as well.

What was the real sticking point with the extension ??

We may never know how far apart they were but it definitely serves the Celtics to wait.  As other have said, Terry Rozier allows the Celtics to sit back without too much concern.  Nobody can replicate all of the intangibles that Marcus brings on defense but Terry fills these gaps in other areas.  Marcus is my favorite Celtic so it will be interesting to see how things go in the off-season.

To be honest it's probably best for Marcus to wait it out in free agency.  We don't know how the landscape of the NBA will change in regards to Superstar players.  A newly signed Marcus could be included in any off-season trade that Danny Ainge is considering.  Marcus at least has some leverage to dictate his future while all the craziness of the NBA off-season is going on.  Someone  correct me if I am wrong, but the Celtics can only sign and trade Marcus to a team that he accepts a contract with in restricted free agency.

All sign and trades require the player to want to sign with the team. You can't sign and trade someone against their will.

Yeah I know that a sign and trade can't happen without the players agreement.  What I meant is that if the Celtics match another teams offer in RFA then they can't trade Marcus for 3 months.  The only exception is that the Celtics can negotiate with a team that Marcus agrees to sign with right?  For example, let's say Marcus accepts a deal with Brooklyn at the end of the season.  The Celtics are allowed to approach the Nets and posture as if they are going to match the deal.  This could potentially open the door for a sign and trade scenario.

If Marcus signed prior to this season then Ainge could move him at any point next summer.  If I am Marcus then I prefer to have the leverage during the off-season.  There is always a risk of injury but I think it was a good idea for Marcus to wait even if they weren't far off on the money.

Ah, okay.  That gets a little more complex.

Basically, we can only sign and trade him as long as he doesn't sign an offer sheet.  So as long as the interested team holds off on the offer sheet (and, presumably, the only teams interested in a sign and trade like this would be teams that didn't have space for the offer sheet), and he doesn't sign an offer sheet with anybody else, he'd be eligible for a sign and trade.  If he signs an offer sheet, then we can't trade him (since matching would make him ineligible for a trade and not matching would mean that another team had him)

[BitterJim]

Unless Marcus comes at a complete bargain, I’m not resigning him at all.

Me neither. Rozier has surpassed him

Rozier was awful for most of the night last night and is generally a worse black hole than Smart, minus the defense. Smart is hard to stomach at times but is the better player.

Yeah, and it's not like Rozier has a history as a good shooter to make up for it.  He's been an awful shooter for his entire career, I need to see a lot more than 7 games of okay shooting (and even then, only from 3 - he's shooting <40% inside the arc on more than 5 attempts per game)) to get me on board with him being anything close to a Marcus replacement

Honestly, the only things Smart and Rozier have in common are poor outside shooting, an inability to finish inside, the knack for stepping up in the playoffs, and their age.  Rozier isn't a replacement for Smart, and I'd rather pay Smart this summer than Rozier next summer

[ChillyWilly]

People love Marcus in Boston because he's 150% dirt dog. He will do what others won't without hesitation.

Issue is he's not a prototypical player it's hard to find others to compare him to and find proper value. I think Danny is doing the right thing and letting the market decide his value. I'm sure Danny tried to get him at an AB/Crowder type discount.

I'm not part of the Marcus fan club beyond being a dirt dog I don't see what others are seeing I guess. Want to part of the club but so much about his game does nothing for me.

[droopdog7]

Unless Marcus comes at a complete bargain, I’m not resigning him at all.

He is not going to come at a bargain. Other teams GMs recognize his unique skill set and will pay him. He helps you win games.

I know.

[droopdog7]

Down here in Rocky Top, I don't get the day-to-day details on Celtics.  Please explain to me why we did not extend Smart's contract. According to Marcus, he was not asking for anything unreasonable. I hope Danny does not get carried away being too cold and calculating.

Marcus Smart is exactly the type of player you win titles with - yes, he needs to improve shot selection, but that is on Stevens. Smart's intangibles and amazing ability to deliver big plays in crunch time cannot be replaced. I also am very much enjoying the Celtics return to being the bully on the block. We lost that when we stupidly traded Perk. Marcus Smart is the guard's version of Kendrick Perkins with a little extra talent as well.

What was the real sticking point with the extension ??

We may never know how far apart they were but it definitely serves the Celtics to wait.  As other have said, Terry Rozier allows the Celtics to sit back without too much concern.  Nobody can replicate all of the intangibles that Marcus brings on defense but Terry fills these gaps in other areas.  Marcus is my favorite Celtic so it will be interesting to see how things go in the off-season.

To be honest it's probably best for Marcus to wait it out in free agency.  We don't know how the landscape of the NBA will change in regards to Superstar players.  A newly signed Marcus could be included in any off-season trade that Danny Ainge is considering.  Marcus at least has some leverage to dictate his future while all the craziness of the NBA off-season is going on.  Someone  correct me if I am wrong, but the Celtics can only sign and trade Marcus to a team that he accepts a contract with in restricted free agency.

All sign and trades require the player to want to sign with the team. You can't sign and trade someone against their will.

Yeah I know that a sign and trade can't happen without the players agreement.  What I meant is that if the Celtics match another teams offer in RFA then they can't trade Marcus for 3 months.  The only exception is that the Celtics can negotiate with a team that Marcus agrees to sign with right?  For example, let's say Marcus accepts a deal with Brooklyn at the end of the season.  The Celtics are allowed to approach the Nets and posture as if they are going to match the deal.  This could potentially open the door for a sign and trade scenario.

If Marcus signed prior to this season then Ainge could move him at any point next summer.  If I am Marcus then I prefer to have the leverage during the off-season.  There is always a risk of injury but I think it was a good idea for Marcus to wait even if they weren't far off on the money.

Ah, okay.  That gets a little more complex.

Basically, we can only sign and trade him as long as he doesn't sign an offer sheet.  So as long as the interested team holds off on the offer sheet (and, presumably, the only teams interested in a sign and trade like this would be teams that didn't have space for the offer sheet), and he doesn't sign an offer sheet with anybody else, he'd be eligible for a sign and trade.  If he signs an offer sheet, then we can't trade him (since matching would make him ineligible for a trade and not matching would mean that another team had him)

I don't think the scenario is a realistic one.  From my experience, it's usually the team that's signing the player that approaches the "old" team about a sign and trade, and usually for the ability to pay the player a little more (as you can do in a sign and trade).  If marcus and a team agree to a contract (and everyone is cool with it) what incentive does the other team have to engage in a sign and trade?  I guess it guarantees that they get the player but I don't think it would play out that way.  More than likely they just sign the contract and dare the "old" team to match it.

[Eja117]

Unless Marcus comes at a complete bargain, I’m not resigning him at all.

Me neither. Rozier has surpassed him

Rozier was awful for most of the night last night and is generally a worse black hole than Smart, minus the defense. Smart is hard to stomach at times but is the better player.

Yeah, and it's not like Rozier has a history as a good shooter to make up for it.  He's been an awful shooter for his entire career, I need to see a lot more than 7 games of okay shooting (and even then, only from 3 - he's shooting <40% inside the arc on more than 5 attempts per game)) to get me on board with him being anything close to a Marcus replacement

Honestly, the only things Smart and Rozier have in common are poor outside shooting, an inability to finish inside, the knack for stepping up in the playoffs, and their age.  Rozier isn't a replacement for Smart, and I'd rather pay Smart this summer than Rozier next summer

Rozier is far more efficient and is progressing. Smart's not.

[KGs Knee]

I'm pretty confident Smart will be able to be retained on a reasonable contract.   It doesn't appear that his shooting form, nor selection, are any better than in year's past. So while Smart is still obviously a very valuable contributor, he's not likely to get offers that will be beyond what Ainge is willing to match.

[ChillyWilly]

Unless Marcus comes at a complete bargain, I’m not resigning him at all.

He is not going to come at a bargain. Other teams GMs recognize his unique skill set and will pay him. He helps you win games.

I know.

What stat backs up Marcus helps you win games? First one that pops into my mind is Win Share where he was middle of the pack for Celtics last season. Maybe you do VORP where again he was middle of the pack on Celtics last season. Don't bother looking up so far this season he's off to a terrible start for advanced stats.

Actually what stat can you point to about Marcus leads to winning?

[kozlodoev]

Rozier is far more efficient and is progressing. Smart's not.

Yeah, he's budged from shooting .367 last year to .373 this year (so far).

Offensively, Rozier is a chucker who tends to pound the ball too much. That he's "far more efficient" than Smart is largely fiction -- his career FG% is in fact a hair under Smart's.