How we match up with Cleveland (TLDR: pretty well)

[crimson_stallion]

I've been in the news recently that Tyronne Lue has made the somewhat unorthodox decision to start Kevin Love at the C spot, and Jae Crowder at the PF spot.

This is an interesting (and somewhat unusual) decision, especially when it comes to how they stand to match up with the Celtics.

With this roster change, the matchups to start the season will basically be as follows:

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Starters
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C: A Horford vs K Love
PF: M Morris vs J Crowder
SF: G Hayward vs L James
SG: J Brown vs D Wade
PG: K Irving vs D Rose

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2nd Unit
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PG: T Rozier vs J Calderon
SG: M Smart vs J Smith
SF: J Tatum vs K Korver
PF: D Theis vs C Frye
C: A Baynes vs T Thompson


The matchups once Isaiah returns should be:

---------
Starters
---------
C: A Horford vs K Love
PF: M Morris vs J Crowder
SF: G Hayward vs L James
SG: J Brown vs D Wade
PG: K Irving vs I Thomas

---------
2nd Unit
---------
PG: T Rozier vs  D Rose
SG: M Smart vs J Smith
SF: J Tatum vs K Korver
PF: D Theis vs C Frye
C: A Baynes vs T Thompson

Honestly - I like our chances with those matchups.  Brad used Crowder at the four in small stretches, usually only in scenarios where matchups favoured it.  When he played other small ball fours (i.e. against tweeners up to ~6'7") Crowder was pretty effective there, but against legit fours he seemed to really struggle quite badly, especially defensively.


My biggest fear matching Cleveland was trying to compete with the inside presence of Thompson and Love, but now that they have moved to this lineup I actually think this benefits Boston in a huge way. 

1. I really do not believe Crowder can defend Marcus Morris, yet I don't think Morris would have an problems at all sticking with Crowoder on the perimeter.

2. I think Horford vs Love is pretty much a wash.  Two guys with very similar physical attributes and similar play styles - l Love being the better rebounding, Horford being the better defender.  Offensively, pretty much a wash. 

3.  Lebron obviously is better then Hayward, but he won't have a cakewalk out there.  Hayward will make him work on both ends of the court, and will not be able to slack off defensively against Hayward the way he has in the past against Crowder.  Lebron seems to struggle the most when he's forced to play against guys who force him to work on both ends - it increases the chance of being able to get him tired, and when you do that you can start to make him look somewhat human.  Lebron will win this matchup 9/10 times, but it won't be by a landslide.

4. Young Wade was a beast, but his game depended al lot on athleticism - and at 35 years old he doesn't have a lot of that left.  Even last year he struggled against us, only having one big game out of 6 in our playoff matchup.  He'll have his hands full trying to keep up with Jaylen Brown, who is possibly the most explosive/athletic player on our roster.  In the meantime Brown has the physical strength and size to make Wade's life difficult, and Dywane's lack of an outside shot means Jaylen will have opportunities to sag off him and provide help on Lebron when Hayward needs it.

5. Derrick Rose has slowly evolved into one of the worst three point shooting guards in league history (he shot around 20% from three last year), and while he can still be a dangerous scorer off the dribble, Kyrie will have the advantage of being able to sag off him quite a bit and dare him to take the three.  Neither Lebron, Wade or Rose is a huge threat from the three point line, (and Crowder isn't much of a threat in general) so if Rose does give Kyrie trouble then then Hayward, Brown and Morris should be able to take turns at helping out.  On the other hand there isn't a hope in hell that Rose can defend Kyrie, and Wade+Lebron will have enough problems trying to keep up with Brown and Hayward so it's not going to be easy for either of those guys to help. 

I look forward to this matchup.  I genuinely believe this proposed starting 5 for Cleveland (especially after Thomas comes back) has the potential to be one of the bottom 5 defensive lineups in the entire league.  They are going to have to score a LOT of points...

[jpotter33]

TP. I agree that we matchup much better with Cleveland with Love at the 5 than with TT there.

I think we'll see Morris do the majority of defense on Lebron, though, especially with his success on him in the past. That'll let Hayward spend less energy on the defensive side of things. Granted, I think he'll get plenty of different looks defensively with Morris, Hayward, Brown, Tatum, and even Smart on the team.

[crimson_stallion]

TP. I agree that we matchup much better with Cleveland with Love at the 5 than with TT there.

I think we'll see Morris do the majority of defense on Lebron, though, especially with his success on him in the past. That'll let Hayward spend less energy on the defensive side of things. Granted, I think he'll get plenty of different looks defensively with Morris, Hayward, Brown, Tatum, and even Smart on the team.

That's a good point - switching Hayward and Morris would make this matchup even stronger in Boston's favour. 

Morris has been known to do good defensive work on Lebron (as you indicated), and defending Crowder will pretty much be a walk in the park for Hayward - which will allow him to save a lot of his energy for the offensive end of the floor.

On the other hand Crowder is going to have difficulties trying to defend either Morris (with his size) or Hayward - so Cleveland are going to have to pick their poison. 

[JBcat]

I think we match up much more evenly now.

I think we will see Morris guard James a lot of the time.  He has a reputation for being a good defender on him.  Then you put Hayward on Crowder.

Hearing Rose has looked great in camp.  A lot like his younger self.  He is after all still just 29.  Maybe he is getting over some of his injuries.

[tarheelsxxiii]

We match up well here on paper.  But, if LeBron decided to use Love as more than just a decoy, I don't think Horford can do much to contain him. 

And, I have no doubt IT will be a force in the playoffs.  That makes the match-up look a heck of a lot different than with Rose.  And Brown really needs to make a leap for us to have a chance to beat CLE. 

I guarantee Moranis will tell you why we lose just about  every matchup.

Lol. 

[Moranis]

Come on now, Irving is clearly the best PG on either team.  Love is better than Horford overall, but not a whole lot of separation.  Crowder and Morris are also fairly even.  James is still by far the best player on either team, but Hayward will at least make him work on both ends unlike last year.  Wade is better than Brown, but if Brown can take a jump he can close much of that gap.  Cleveland has a far superior bench, both in quality and depth. 

Cleveland is the better team.  The NBA GM's think so, Vegas thinks so, most NBA writers think so, etc.  Thus, I'm not taking some sort of weird or novel position. 

[tarheelsxxiii]

Come on now, Irving is clearly the best PG on either team.  Love is better than Horford overall, but not a whole lot of separation.  Crowder and Morris are also fairly even.  James is still by far the best player on either team, but Hayward will at least make him work on both ends unlike last year.  Wade is better than Brown, but if Brown can take a jump he can close much of that gap.  Cleveland has a far superior bench, both in quality and depth. 

Cleveland is the better team.  The NBA GM's think so, Vegas thinks so, most NBA writers think so, etc.  Thus, I'm not taking some sort of weird or novel position.

I agree with almost all of this, big 'Mo.  But Kyrie is not clearly better than IT.  He has more weapons in Boston than IT ever did, but he hasn't proven that he can carry an offense just yet. 

TP for allowing me to call you big Mo moving forward. 

[celticsclay]

Come on now, Irving is clearly the best PG on either team.  Love is better than Horford overall, but not a whole lot of separation.  Crowder and Morris are also fairly even.  James is still by far the best player on either team, but Hayward will at least make him work on both ends unlike last year.  Wade is better than Brown, but if Brown can take a jump he can close much of that gap.  Cleveland has a far superior bench, both in quality and depth. 

Cleveland is the better team.  The NBA GM's think so, Vegas thinks so, most NBA writers think so, etc.  Thus, I'm not taking some sort of weird or novel position.

I agree with almost all of this, big 'Mo.  But Kyrie is not clearly better than IT.  He has more weapons in Boston than IT ever did, but he hasn't proven that he can carry an offense just yet. 

TP for allowing me to call you big Mo moving forward.

I would also like to call you big Mo if you like this nickname

[tstorey_97]

I think the Celtics will improve as the season goes along...many parts will need to find their place and will.

The Cavaliers are a better team now but, will not improve. In the playoffs? "Everything to lose."

If the Celtics beat the Cavaliers in the ECF, it will be an upset and these guys are setting up as an upset kind of team. "Nothing to lose."

If it can be done Stevens will do it.

[Hank Finkel]

Do you think maybe the Cavs are looking at this lineup as a way to beat the Warriors.  I do.  They beat the crap out of us last year they are looking at the Warriors and a rematch. Can we provide some stiff competition, I hope so but Lebron and the Cavs are still the big dog in the east.

[Eddie20]

I guarantee Moranis will tell you why we lose just about  every matchup.

I'll raise you a Rollie Mass who will argue that our 3rd string/D League bound guys are better then the Cavs starters.

[blink]

The Cavs abused us last year with their size and their def ability to take IT out of the game.  Granted he was injured, but it was basically them saying that no one else on our team is good enough to beat them.  It worked.

Who knows where this season will go, but we definitely got bigger/longer and added scoring punch to our lineup.  Clevelands bench seems better, but in the playoffs the bench is shortened.  I wouldn't go all the way to say I like our chances, but it should be closer than last year.  Unfortunately Lebron still plays for the Cavs and is the best player by a lot from either team.

[Fred Roberts]

I think Calderon gets cut.

CLE has better wing help in tow with Jeff Green, Smith, Shump, Crowder, Wade, Korver.

It's not super high end, but there's much more to plug and play to keep James fresh and give him help on both ends.

I think the collective talent pool holds us off one more year. Barely. Then they likely rebuild.

[Eddie20]

I think Calderon gets cut.

No way. Thomas is on the shelf until at least January and Rose is always a hard sneeze away from the injured list.

[Ed Hollison]

Pre-comment disclaimer: None of the following may matter, because in the playoffs Lebron somehow drinks vampire blood or something and just kills everyone. So take the following with a grain of salt.

- The Celtics have tons of wing defenders to throw at Lebron now: Morris, J. Brown, Hayward, Ojeleye, Nader, and Smart in a pinch. Morris is generally regarded as a solid defender of Lebron. Jaylen has performed well against him as a rookie. Anything should be an upgrade over Crowder, who took a step back defensively last year.

- The Cavs have horrible defensive footspeed, against an athletic, movement-oriented C's offense. Seriously, who's a good defender on that team? Maybe Crowder? Lebron? Who else? This team will get killed on defense.

- The Celtics are no longer "IT plus some spot-up shooters" on offense. Last year we had IT with a bum hip in the playoffs. This year we'll have two of the best offensive players in the game, plus a deep bench of decent offensive talent.

Cleveland deserves respect simply because of Lebron. But the gap between these two teams is closer than people think.