This team is NOT a championship

[Kuberski33]

BREAKING NEWS: This team isn't built to win a title this year. It's built to win 2-3 titles over the next 5-7 years. Bron will not be around forever.

And even if he is, if this goes according to plan it won't matter.

[Moranis]

Boston is probably the 7th best team in the league, but it is one of the youngest of those 7 teams so the future is bright.

shocking - the usual "doom and gloom everything Celtics sucks" start but you ended on a positive note.  that's not like you. 

I'd go top six at least.
1. GSW
2-6 (in no particular order): SAS, Houston, OKC, Cleveland, Boston.

not sure who else you're including in that group to make it 7.  Certainly no one else in the East.  Toronto and Washington are a step behind Cavs and C's.  Clips in the West are also a step behind particularly without CP3.  not seeing anyone else in the West that I'd consider in that top ranking at this point.

Minnesota.  Teague, Butler, Wiggins, Gibson, Towns is a very strong starting 5 (mostly young also) and the top 3 on the bench are pretty good as well in Dieng, Crawford, Jones.

Why don't we wait until Minnesota makes it into the playoffs first before declaring them one of the 7 best teams in the league.

The Spurs have one of the best players in the league in Leonard and arguably the best coach too. However, there's not much to like after that. Parker and Ginobli are probably too old and fragile at this point to sustain a long playoff run. Aldridge played like he was 50 years old last season.

As much as the prospect of having Chris Paul and Harden on the same team sounds, the rest of the roster leaves little to be desired.

Having said that, I would have Golden State, Oklahoma City, and Cleveland ahead of the Celtics. Even if you want to put Minnesota, San Antonio, and Houston ahead of the Celtics too, the good news is the Celtics would only have to beat one team out of the West if they made it to the Finals.

Boston returns 4 players from its team and only 1 of those 4 started more than 24 games last year.  Yet you are ok placing Boston in the top 7.  Doesn't that seem a bit hypocritical?  Sure Irving and Hayward were both in the playoffs last year (though so were Butler and Gibson, and while Teague wasn't he has significant playoff experience), but they weren't on Boston.  Minnesota's coach has more playoff experience, more playoff series wins, etc. than Boston's coach.  It just strikes me as hypocritical to take a wait and see approach with a team like the Wolves when you don't have the same thought process with a team like Celtics. 

And I'm confused with your analysis of Houston and San Antonio.  Houston returns 4 of 5 starters as well as their 6th man (Gordon) and their 1st big on the bench (Hilario).  The one starter they didn't return went from Patrick Beverly to Chris Paul.  They had the 3rd best record in basketball last year.  I don't see how anyone would have any hesitation about that team at all.  San Antonio returns everyone of note and added Rudy Gay.  They are definitely old down low with Aldridge, Gasol, and Gay, but they have a lot of youngish talent waiting in the wings like Murray, Anderson, and Mills.  They also were the 2nd best team in the league last year.  Again is just seems odd to criticize teams that are basically the same with improvements and were significantly better than Boston was last year to begin with, when you don't have the same criticisms of Boston. 

[Tr1boy]

contending team.

There's talent on this team yes...but there's too many holes.

No bench.

No defense.

No rebounding.

No clutch role players that just make the big plays.

I mean which Big 3 do you guys think is better: '08 C's with Garnett, Allen, and PP or KYrie, Horford, and Hayward?

I think the '08 team would have trouble with these Warriors if I was being realistic....but yeah that's how far apart we really are.

I'm sure next season will be exciting but let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet.

What?? Lol

Yes it is. 

If rebounding becomes a key issue by the trade deadline... Np

[Donoghus]

Timeline hasn't changed for this team.  Just a bunch of the personnel.

It has been and still is "have your cake & eat it too" mode with true championship contention probably still a little bit away, IMO.  The key being the growth of Kyrie (as well as an extension) and growth in the young guys (Smart included).

[Rosco917]

contending team.

There's talent on this team yes...but there's too many holes.

No bench.

No defense.

No rebounding.

No clutch role players that just make the big plays.

I mean which Big 3 do you guys think is better: '08 C's with Garnett, Allen, and PP or KYrie, Horford, and Hayward?

I think the '08 team would have trouble with these Warriors if I was being realistic....but yeah that's how far apart we really are.

I'm sure next season will be exciting but let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet.

Well... thank you for your expert commentary. But I'll wait to watch actual games before I make any conclusions.

[ThePaintedArea]

No bench.

It's hard to agree with this.

I think the starters are Irving/Brown/Hayward/Morris/Horford. That will no doubt change at some point, it being the nature of the beast.

Rozier, Smart, and Baynes added to that makes an eight-man rotation.  Those three are all reliable NBA rotation players, and that's enough to doubt your "no bench" claim.

No defense.

Obviously your claim is over the top. But surely it would be a real achievement for this team to be even a top third defensive team; the biggest challenge is going to be defensive rebounding. Last year's team was poor at it, and it looks like mostly downgrades at the various positions. Brad Stevens' repeated insistence that Jaylen has got to be "a lockdown defender" this year is an acknowledgment that wing defense is also in doubt; Hayward is simply not going to be a wing stopper.

No rebounding.

Again, this is over the top. But I'm willing to allow for rhetoric here, and mostly agree with you.

I say "mostly" because I think that offensive rebounding is incidental to Brad's plan and expectations - at least judging by his history as an NBA coach. He'd rather keep the lane fluid and have the team get back in transition than crash the offensive boards. I won't go so far as to say that offensive rebounding doesn't matter, but it's clearly down the list of priorities.

No clutch role players that just make the big plays.

Red Auerbach said that ALL players are role players (if you want to say what being a Boston Celtic means, put that at the top of the page).

If you mean bench guys when you say "role players", then I disagree that a team needs that to win a championship.

If you mean all players, I'd just suggest that you take a look at the last couple of minutes of the Finals the season before last. Kyrie Irving made a play that's about as clutch as it gets.

I'm sure next season will be exciting but let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet.

Always good advice.

Actually, I'm confident that the 17-18 Celtics will be pretty darned exciting.

[Sophomore]

contending team.

There's talent on this team yes...but there's too many holes.

No bench.  --- See: Tatum, Rozier, Smart/Brown, Theis

No defense. ---- See: Smart, Brown, Rozier, Al, Gordon, Semi

No rebounding. ---- See: Aron Bane Baynes, Theis, Hayward, Rozier

No clutch role players that just make the big plays. --- See: Rozier, Smart, and i feel like Jaylen and Tatum are being severly underrated.

I mean which Big 3 do you guys think is better: '08 C's with Garnett, Allen, and PP or KYrie, Horford, and Hayward? ---- This is comparing an all time great team to our current very very good 2017 Celtics. Of course 2018 had the better Big 3.

I think the '08 team would have trouble with these Warriors if I was being realistic....but yeah that's how far apart we really are. ---- Wrong. 08 team would compete, and in my mind, beat GS if healthy.

I'm sure next season will be exciting but let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet. --- 58-24, book it

Did you really just list Hayward (career 4.8 REB Per 36), Rozier (6'2" and 6.7 career REB Per 36) and Theis (~ 8 REB Per 36 against 2nd string euro players) as three of the answers to our rebounding problems? 

 

I don't think grasp the idea that if our best rebounders are a two guard, small forward, and a guy who hasn't played a second in the NBA then we are in trouble lol

I don't quite think you understand today's NBA. The Celtics are one of the most talented teams in the league. Probably the most talented team in the East although beating Lebron in a series will still be difficult. That is how you win games.

It's nice to have good rebounding, but our problems have been greatly exaggerated. You know which team was the best at rebounding last year? Denver. Meanwhile, Golden State and Cleveland, the teams that met in the Finals, were strictly middle of the pack - 10th and 13th, respectively. https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/total-rebounding-percentage

The difference between Boston and Cleveland last year was two percentage points in ORR% -- 50.2 to 48.1. Roughly 2-3 balls a game. That is not why Cleveland smoked us last year. It was because we could not (remotely) keep pace with their offense, and because we could not stop them.

This year our offense should be much more versatile and hard to shut down, especially in the playoffs. On defense, we are no longer giving up 10 inches at the 1 and 2 spot, or god help us, playing JC at the 4 with three guards. We have bangers if we need them in Morris and Baynes.

It's going to be a fun, fun year watching this team of young, skilled players develop. Golden State is historically great, so it is very hard for anybody to win against them if they are healthy. But I am not saying yet what our ceiling is going to be.

[ChillyWilly]

contending team.

There's talent on this team yes...but there's too many holes.

No bench.  --- See: Tatum, Rozier, Smart/Brown, Theis

No defense. ---- See: Smart, Brown, Rozier, Al, Gordon, Semi

No rebounding. ---- See: Aron Bane Baynes, Theis, Hayward, Rozier

No clutch role players that just make the big plays. --- See: Rozier, Smart, and i feel like Jaylen and Tatum are being severly underrated.

I mean which Big 3 do you guys think is better: '08 C's with Garnett, Allen, and PP or KYrie, Horford, and Hayward? ---- This is comparing an all time great team to our current very very good 2017 Celtics. Of course 2018 had the better Big 3.

I think the '08 team would have trouble with these Warriors if I was being realistic....but yeah that's how far apart we really are. ---- Wrong. 08 team would compete, and in my mind, beat GS if healthy.

I'm sure next season will be exciting but let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet. --- 58-24, book it

Did you really just list Hayward (career 4.8 REB Per 36), Rozier (6'2" and 6.7 career REB Per 36) and Theis (~ 8 REB Per 36 against 2nd string euro players) as three of the answers to our rebounding problems? 

 

I don't think grasp the idea that if our best rebounders are a two guard, small forward, and a guy who hasn't played a second in the NBA then we are in trouble lol

I don't quite think you understand today's NBA. The Celtics are one of the most talented teams in the league. Probably the most talented team in the East although beating Lebron in a series will still be difficult. That is how you win games.

It's nice to have good rebounding, but our problems have been greatly exaggerated. You know which team was the best at rebounding last year? Denver. Meanwhile, Golden State and Cleveland, the teams that met in the Finals, were strictly middle of the pack - 10th and 13th, respectively. https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/total-rebounding-percentage

The difference between Boston and Cleveland last year was two percentage points in ORR% -- 50.2 to 48.1. Roughly 2-3 balls a game. That is not why Cleveland smoked us last year. It was because we could not (remotely) keep pace with their offense, and because we could not stop them.

This year our offense should be much more versatile and hard to shut down, especially in the playoffs. On defense, we are no longer giving up 10 inches at the 1 and 2 spot, or god help us, playing JC at the 4 with three guards. We have bangers if we need them in Morris and Baynes.

It's going to be a fun, fun year watching this team of young, skilled players develop. Golden State is historically great, so it is very hard for anybody to win against them if they are healthy. But I am not saying yet what our ceiling is going to be.

I just get the feeling Brad willing sacrifices in that department by having well rounded guys on the floor instead. You can see Danny trying to find Brad type guys that have rebounding as a strength.

[mef730]

contending team.

There's talent on this team yes...but there's too many holes.

“Hmm,” said a small voice in his ear. “Difficult. Very difficult. Plenty of courage, I see. Not a bad mind either. There’s talent, oh my goodness, yes — and a nice thirst to prove yourself, now that’s interesting. . . . So where shall I put you?”

Kyrie gripped the edges of the stool and thought, Not Phoenix, not Phoenix.

“Not Phoenix, eh?” said the small voice. “Are you sure? You could be great, you know, it’s all here in your head, and Phoenix will help you on the way to greatness, no doubt about that — no? Well, if you’re sure — better be BOSTON!”

Mike

[tstorey_97]

"Championship" is a big picture thing. Speculating on details for the coming season is beyond the beyond as the team hasn't ever existed before.

I have been in the Celtics are "fifth best team in the NBA camp" since the trades took place.

Now that time has gone by, I am going to give this team a title shot this year. Defining a team is not achieved with examining and or quantifying the holes or weaknesses.

The Celtics have one very big advantage this year. It is difficult to measure, but, it exists and I think it takes them awfully deep.

The Warriors and Cavs are expected to be there at the end. They have clearly defined expectations and these alone are a weight to carry for 82 games into the playoffs.

The Celtics have no such responsibilities. They are young, newly assembled and have a coach with a reputation for beating teams with better rosters than his own.

This Celtics team can have fun and enjoy the possibility of wrecking the two favorites...except this particular Celtics team is different from the "underdogs of the past." They have the players the coach and the tradition that will make the following a potential nightmare for first Tyronn Lue and then, perhaps Steve Kerr.

Irving and Hayward with Horford and Smart backed by a very strong bench are playing lights out. This group does not "have" to win...You do. These Celtics are just "glad to be here."

No head coach anywhere, ever wants this dynamic in Game six of a championship series at Boston Garden.


     

[Boris Badenov]

No team is a championship team until it wins a championship.

There were tons of concerns about our 07-08 team. Shallow bench. Inexperienced PG. Ray Allen's defense. Egos.

I'm not comparing the two teams or making a prediction, but to make any kind of judgment about a team that's turned over four starters and hasn't played a single game yet just seems nuts to me.

[TheReaLPuba]

No team is a championship team until it wins a championship.

There were tons of concerns about our 07-08 team. Shallow bench. Inexperienced PG. Ray Allen's defense. Egos.

I'm not comparing the two teams or making a prediction, but to make any kind of judgment about a team that's turned over four starters and hasn't played a single game yet just seems nuts to me.

Yeah but the '08 team has 3 legit AS players...HOF caliber players. One of the greatest clutch shooters of all time, a top 5 MVP caliber big, and the greatest scorer in Celtics history.

This team has Irving who is at best top 10? Maybe top 6 PG ?

Hayward is a good solid player. Efficient and dependable.

Horford is good soft 4 who's never been a good rebounder or one on one defender. He's above average and maybe even good at team defense when he was younger but not anymore!

Bottom line is this team has so much more to go in terms or talent.

[Celtics4ever]

No clutch role players that just make the big plays.

This comment eroded all credibility of the thread in my eyes.

[TheReaLPuba]

No clutch role players that just make the big plays.

This comment eroded all credibility of the thread in my eyes.

Sorry but there just is no James Posey's on this team.

I mean we are depending on a rookie in Tatum to make big shots for us off the bench.

[droopdog7]

Some of you guys are hilarious.  I get it; the warriors are on a different level.  But this team has a legit chance of maniking the finals.  Which one of us isn’t excited about facing the warriors with a punchers chnace?  I know I am.