Tell us how you really feel - Kyrie Sucks, Hayward Sucks, Trade was a Mistake

[vjcsmoke]

From reading all the posts on this forum.  The above title is what I am reading into the mood of most of the posters and Celtics fans here.  I completely disagree, but I felt like you know what, you might as well get it off your chest.

Right here right now, tell us how you honestly feel.  About Kyrie, the new Big 3, and all the moves DA has made this offseason.  Should DA be fired?  Tell us straight.  Is Kyrie a one-dimensional offensive black hole with no room for improvement?  Get it on the record.  Was Gordon Hayward the wrong free agent for us?  Again, state it now for posterity.  Let it ALL OUT!

Gets popcorn ready for the fireworks.  Go!

[Phantom255x]

All I'm going to say is that Kyrie still has A LOT to prove (can he really be an alpha who can accomplish a lot without Lebron - like making an ECF for instance), and this really is not a Big 3. Horford is great, but this is not all-star Horford from 4-5 years ago.

And my biggest complaint was that Ainge vastly overpaid for Irving and took a VERY BIG gamble here (even if IT was injured, it was an overpay nonetheless). Hell, they seemed to put Zizic in the trade as a "throw in", which is ridiculous since many projected he'd go Top-10 in the most recent draft.

Team is still 1 star away from legitimate contention (same case BEFORE the trade since IT-Irving swap isn't a huge improvement), and ideally you hope Tatum/Brown can become stars but they would probably love another star PF/C. With the Irving trade, do they have enough to pull off and/or outbid others in a potential Davis or Porzingis trade (for example)?

[vjcsmoke]

Thank you for your feedback!  This is exactly the kind of honesty we are looking for!  Anyone else?  Weigh in now!  You'll have "I told you so" rights for the next decade if it turns out you were right on this one. 

I'm more of a wait and see kind of guy, but sometimes it helps just to say exactly how you feel right now, today about the state of the Celtics, and the big moves that DA just made.  Wyc promised fireworks many times before, but this is the first big Shake Up series of moves we have seen DA make to date post-Brooklyn trade.

Did DA go after the 'right' star player with his cache of assets.  Was Hayward worth giving up Avery Bradley?  Let us know!

[nickagneta]

I haven't seen a ton of posters saying they hate the trade and bad,mouthing KI and saying they hate Irving. I have only seen a few posters, one in particular, that has been stating they hated the trade and has been disparaging Irving over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

[LilRip]

Yeah I was under the impression that more posters liked the trade than hated it. Same with the Hayward and Horford signings.

We haven't mortgaged our future for Kyrie. This isn't a 33-year old KG who was already near the end of his prime and if he didn't make an impact, then it would've been a bust. (Fortunately for us, he had a culture-changing impact!). This is a 25 year old 4x all star with plenty of room to grow lol

[Phantom255x]

Thank you for your feedback!  This is exactly the kind of honesty we are looking for!  Anyone else?  Weigh in now!  You'll have "I told you so" rights for the next decade if it turns out you were right on this one. 

I'm more of a wait and see kind of guy, but sometimes it helps just to say exactly how you feel right now, today about the state of the Celtics, and the big moves that DA just made.  Wyc promised fireworks many times before, but this is the first big Shake Up series of moves we have seen DA make to date post-Brooklyn trade.

Did DA go after the 'right' star player with his cache of assets.  Was Hayward worth giving up Avery Bradley?  Let us know!

I mean, I may not have loved the trade, but now that we have Irving, I'll root for him to become a superstar PG (to the extent of Curry, Westbrook maybe).

And I was perfectly fine with the Horford and Hayward signings. Just unfortunate we couldn't get KD after signing Horford but that's NOT the C's fault at all (not badmouthing them).

And just to be clear I never made any clear-cut predictions here, I just expressed doubts I have, and trust me, MOST of this board has them, even those who loved the trade. That's what happens when you are "close, but not quite there".

[Roy H.]

My thoughts / predictions:

Hayward was a great signing.

Kyrie is a great scorer with some significant holes in his game. It's doubtful that he performs as well this season as IT did last year.

The concerns about IT's injury are overblown. He'll be healthy by playoff time.

The Celts won't finish with a top-2 seed.

We'll miss some of the grit and leadership we traded away.

The Lakers pick won't convey.

Despite Kyrie playing well in Boston, this will be a trade that hurts now and going forward.

[Roy H.]

I haven't seen a ton of posters saying they hate the trade and bad,mouthing KI and saying they hate Irving. I have only seen a few posters, one in particular, that has been stating they hated the trade and has been disparaging Irving over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

It's more criticizing than disparaging, and none of it is unfair.

[More Banners]

The overpay was for Horford. Sure, it was market rate, but of our 3 max players, he's not a max play r.

[indeedproceed]

Negative Thoughts:

I think listening to Kyrie Irving talk is terrible.

I think that this trade basically resets one of the strongest locker rooms in the league.

I think that I've spent years disliking Kyrie and lamenting his weaknesses relative to other 'elite scoring' point guards, chief among them his historically bad defense and standoffish personality.

I think that follows him here and Marcus Smart is going to have to be one heck of a leader next season, because he'll ALSO have to work around Kyrie's ego.

I think this trade fundamentally changes perception about the Celtics. We can bounce back, but right now stable we ain't.

I think this cements DAIAS*.

I think that the Nets pick HAD to have top-2 protection for anyone besides Anthony Davis. Just inexcusable.
__________________________________________

Positive Thoughts:

I think that Isaiah Thomas's injury is career altering and I know I would not want Danny paying him next season.

I think Jae Crowder was going to be a real problem in the locker room after signing Hayward and drafting Tatum.

I think that Kyrie has the potential to be more than he already is.

I think that BS is gonna find a way.

___________________________________________

*Danny Ainge Is A Snake: Can't trust him. He will do whatever is good for the team, including (insert hyperbolic scenario). But, he's our snake and he never sleeps.
 

[vjcsmoke]

I see your points and concerns.

System-wise Hayward is probably a great fit for the Celtics.  Some here will worry about giving up a great perimeter defender like AB to make room though.

Kyrie's questions on defense are well known.  If he can become even an average NBA defender that would be an unexpected but welcome improvement.

Perhaps the biggest question about him offensively as far as the system goes is, although Kyrie has great handles and offensive scoring capabilities, will he become a "ball-stopper" in Coach Steven's offense?  That's probably the one thing we can't afford to have because his system is predicated on moving the ball constantly to find the best shot.

The second question offensively, how good is Kyrie's vision, really?  Can his assist per game ratio rise as he is handed the "keys to drive the car"?  Was it Lebron eating up all the assists because he was the #1 ballhandler, or does Kyrie lack the court awareness to become an elite distributor of the ball as a scoring point?

This is almost a brand new team with 4 starters changed from last season.  Horford being the only returning starter.  Who steps in to fill the shoes of the SG position?  Will it be Jaylen Brown or Marcus Smart and can they play to the level of an Avery Bradley?

Talent-wise, I really don't see a more talented big 3 in the East outside of Cleveland.  So unless we just flop out of the gates and never build chemistry, it's hard to see the Celtics finishing out of the top 2.

And last concern of my own, we STILL did not get better rebounding the ball despite all these big moves.  Losing Zizic might have been the most underrated loss of the Trade.  But imo this meant that DA valued Yabusele more.  So what can the "dancing bear" offer us in season 1?  Who secures the starting PF role, Marcus Morris, Jayson Tatum, or Yabusele?

Finally, the lottery jigsaw.  Best case scenario, Lakers get pick #2, which conveys to us, and Brooklyn slides to the 6th to 8th pick in the draft.  Worst case,  Brooklyn wins the Lottery, and Lakers slip to 6th place or later.  Who made the right gamble, Danny Ainge or Koby Altman?

My thoughts / predictions:

Hayward was a great signing.

Kyrie is a great scorer with some significant holes in his game. It's doubtful that he performs as well this season as IT did last year.

The concerns about IT's injury are overblown. He'll be healthy by playoff time.

The Celts won't finish with a top-2 seed.

We'll miss some of the grit and leadership we traded away.

The Lakers pick won't convey.

Despite Kyrie playing well in Boston, this will be a trade that hurts now and going forward.

[liam]

The overpay was for Horford. Sure, it was market rate, but of our 3 max players, he's not a max play r.

Horford opened the door for people to want to play in Boston. He is the 1st major free agent signing in Boston in maybe forever... Without Horford the other chips don't fall in place. Horford is a player that  lots of NBA players want to play with.

[RJ87]

The overpay was for Horford. Sure, it was market rate, but of our 3 max players, he's not a max play r.

This is where I am too. I completely recognize everything he brings to the team on and off the court. I don't think it's worth what he's making at this point.

I love the trade. Yes, love it. I love the Hayward signing as well. I think last year's team was a fun, scrappy team that was great to root for because they overachieved. I think that team peaked last year. I don't think IT was going to replicate his play from last season, the hip injury just solidified that. I believe Danny also saw the team had maxed it's potential and upgraded the talent level.

I think for the first time in Brad Stevens' Boston tenure, he has elite level, blue chip talent and I'm excited to see what he does with it.

[GratefulCs]

My thoughts / predictions:

Hayward was a great signing.

Kyrie is a great scorer with some significant holes in his game. It's doubtful that he performs as well this season as IT did last year.

The concerns about IT's injury are overblown. He'll be healthy by playoff time.

The Celts won't finish with a top-2 seed.

We'll miss some of the grit and leadership we traded away.

The Lakers pick won't convey.

Despite Kyrie playing well in Boston, this will be a trade that hurts now and going forward.

not a sure thing

and even if he's "healthy" he probably won't be playing like he did last year

[green_bballers13]

I haven't seen a ton of posters saying they hate the trade and bad,mouthing KI and saying they hate Irving. I have only seen a few posters, one in particular, that has been stating they hated the trade and has been disparaging Irving over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

It's more criticizing than disparaging, and none of it is unfair.

Hmmm, I wonder who he was talking about?

Also, a lot of it is unfair: Kyrie's leadership, willingness to win, and killer instinct have been either criticized/ignored.

The dude can play and is a top scorer. He's going to be better than IT for the next couple of years.