Lowe: C's leaning toward starting Horford at Center

[billysan]

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/09/boston_celtics_news_team_leani.html

I would absolutely love this, and I, along with several other posters, have long been arguing for this type of starting lineup change. This would most likely mean Morris starting at the 4, which would give us maximal spacing, shooting, and passing, and it would give Kyrie, Brown/Smart, Hayward, and Morris all kinds of room to take their man to the basket, along with a ton of options for PnR play.

Sizzling take by MassLive. Like that was ever really in doubt.

I never thought it was, but plenty of people thought it would be Baynes due to the Amir situation last year.

But Baynes isn't similar to Amir (who is infinitely more skilled, even if he's on his last legs). Baynes is more along the lines of what we thought Tyler Zeller could become. I think it's pretty clear who this guy is at this stage of his career -- and starting-caliber NBA center he is not.

Re: whoever brought Theis into this... you trying to tell us that a 25-year old player who couldn't carve himself a regular starting role in the Bundesliga will miraculously start for us? Please.

As to Theis, I may be the one who brought him into this discussion. My point was he has played pro ball and is considered a veteran compared to the three rookies, even though he is technically  a rookie. If he is not good enough to earn bigman rotation minutes then he doesn't need a roster spot. I guess we will find out in a month or so.

I'm not sure  his contract is guaranteed  but I haven't seen anything one way or another.

Can we even send him to the G league?

[kozlodoev]

As to Theis, I may be the one who brought him into this discussion. My point was he has played pro ball and is considered a veteran compared to the three rookies, even though he is technically  a rookie. If he is not good enough to earn bigman rotation minutes then he doesn't need a roster spot. I guess we will find out in a month or so.

I'm not sure  his contract is guaranteed  but I haven't seen anything one way or another.

Can we even send him to the G league?

We probably can, but I'm not sure how much value this will have. He is largely what he is at this stage, and we'll have to wait and see whether he's good enough for a role.

I think his contract is guaranteed. But if it's for the minimum, this doesn't mean much.

[saltlover]

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/09/boston_celtics_news_team_leani.html

I would absolutely love this, and I, along with several other posters, have long been arguing for this type of starting lineup change. This would most likely mean Morris starting at the 4, which would give us maximal spacing, shooting, and passing, and it would give Kyrie, Brown/Smart, Hayward, and Morris all kinds of room to take their man to the basket, along with a ton of options for PnR play.

Sizzling take by MassLive. Like that was ever really in doubt.

I never thought it was, but plenty of people thought it would be Baynes due to the Amir situation last year.

But Baynes isn't similar to Amir (who is infinitely more skilled, even if he's on his last legs). Baynes is more along the lines of what we thought Tyler Zeller could become. I think it's pretty clear who this guy is at this stage of his career -- and starting-caliber NBA center he is not.

Re: whoever brought Theis into this... you trying to tell us that a 25-year old player who couldn't carve himself a regular starting role in the Bundesliga will miraculously start for us? Please.

As to Theis, I may be the one who brought him into this discussion. My point was he has played pro ball and is considered a veteran compared to the three rookies, even though he is technically  a rookie. If he is not good enough to earn bigman rotation minutes then he doesn't need a roster spot. I guess we will find out in a month or so.

I'm not sure  his contract is guaranteed  but I haven't seen anything one way or another.

Can we even send him to the G league?

His contract is fully guaranteed this year.  He can be assigned to the G-league, because players with under two years experience (maybe it's two or under at this point -- can't remember if that's a change in the new CBA) can be sent back and forth as much as a team likes.  But the Celtics will be better off using that to develop the draftees they've got for the long-term, not for someone like Theis.

[Beat LA]

What analysis!

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/09/boston_celtics_news_team_leani.html

I would absolutely love this, and I, along with several other posters, have long been arguing for this type of starting lineup change. This would most likely mean Morris starting at the 4, which would give us maximal spacing, shooting, and passing, and it would give Kyrie, Brown/Smart, Hayward, and Morris all kinds of room to take their man to the basket, along with a ton of options for PnR play.

Great, just what we need - more pick and roll play .

[Somebody]

If we start Horford at center I hope that Yabusele learns fast, him and Horford would be nice since they cover each other's deficiencies well (Yabu helps out with rebounding and perimeter defense and Horford helps with rim protection).

[Celtics4ever]

It should be clear to folks now that bigs are not considered a top priority to Ainge,

[RockinRyA]

What analysis!

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/09/boston_celtics_news_team_leani.html

I would absolutely love this, and I, along with several other posters, have long been arguing for this type of starting lineup change. This would most likely mean Morris starting at the 4, which would give us maximal spacing, shooting, and passing, and it would give Kyrie, Brown/Smart, Hayward, and Morris all kinds of room to take their man to the basket, along with a ton of options for PnR play.

Great, just what we need - more pick and roll play .

What world are you living in? PnR is today's NBA bread and butter play. 

[Somebody]

It should be clear to folks now that bigs are not considered a top priority to Ainge,

Well having a very good big in Horford certainly does that, we still lack in rebounding but with our wings and guards being bigger collective rebounding should mitigate this problem by quite some.

[Chris22]

I'm excited on the offensive end of the floor for an Irving-Brown-Hayward-Morris-Horford lineup.

That's gotta be the worst rebounding team in the league though.

This.

[Birdistheword]

Just checked last years team stats, regarding rebounding we´re the only contender in the bottom 10... What´s really concerning is, that we´re so thin on the big positions. What if Horford is injured? It feels like we´re a good rebounding shot-blocker away from beeing a serious contender.

[Beat LA]

What analysis!

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/09/boston_celtics_news_team_leani.html

I would absolutely love this, and I, along with several other posters, have long been arguing for this type of starting lineup change. This would most likely mean Morris starting at the 4, which would give us maximal spacing, shooting, and passing, and it would give Kyrie, Brown/Smart, Hayward, and Morris all kinds of room to take their man to the basket, along with a ton of options for PnR play.

Great, just what we need - more pick and roll play .

What world are you living in? PnR is today's NBA bread and butter play. 

Umm, how about one in which there's much more to the sport than the already nauseating amount of pick and roll play?  Seriously, do these coaches and players even know how to do anything else?  It's just pick and roll, shooting a ton of threes, and dunks by big guys who can do nothing but move their feet.  There's no post play, especially by big men, the midrange game is almost completely nonexistent, next to zero off-ball movement, no exploiting of mismatches and/or foul situations, and a complete lack of overall strategy.  Basketball used to be a game of chess, and now it's not even checkers, imo.  Guys can't even get a layup off of a 3-on-1 fast break, anymore.  They either botch the play completely or bail the defense out by taking another three, because analytics.  Yawn.     

[trickybilly]

What analysis!

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/09/boston_celtics_news_team_leani.html

I would absolutely love this, and I, along with several other posters, have long been arguing for this type of starting lineup change. This would most likely mean Morris starting at the 4, which would give us maximal spacing, shooting, and passing, and it would give Kyrie, Brown/Smart, Hayward, and Morris all kinds of room to take their man to the basket, along with a ton of options for PnR play.

Great, just what we need - more pick and roll play .

What world are you living in? PnR is today's NBA bread and butter play. 

Umm, how about one in which there's much more to the sport than the already nauseating amount of pick and roll play?  Seriously, do these coaches and players even know how to do anything else?  It's just pick and roll, shooting a ton of threes, and dunks by big guys who can do nothing but move their feet.  There's no post play, especially by big men, the midrange game is almost completely nonexistent, next to zero off-ball movement, no exploiting of mismatches and/or foul situations, and a complete lack of overall strategy.  Basketball used to be a game of chess, and now it's not even checkers, imo.  Guys can't even get a layup off of a 3-on-1 fast break, anymore.  They either botch the play completely or bail the defense out by taking another three, because analytics.  Yawn.     

I suggest you avail yourself of how insanely intricate modern offensive NBA schemes are. Coach Nick and Coach Daniel youtube vids are a good start.

I actually get bored watching college games. There are a few teams (not schools who rely on freshman) which are semi-entertaining

[Somebody]

What analysis!

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/09/boston_celtics_news_team_leani.html

I would absolutely love this, and I, along with several other posters, have long been arguing for this type of starting lineup change. This would most likely mean Morris starting at the 4, which would give us maximal spacing, shooting, and passing, and it would give Kyrie, Brown/Smart, Hayward, and Morris all kinds of room to take their man to the basket, along with a ton of options for PnR play.

Great, just what we need - more pick and roll play .

What world are you living in? PnR is today's NBA bread and butter play. 

Umm, how about one in which there's much more to the sport than the already nauseating amount of pick and roll play?  Seriously, do these coaches and players even know how to do anything else?  It's just pick and roll, shooting a ton of threes, and dunks by big guys who can do nothing but move their feet.  There's no post play, especially by big men, the midrange game is almost completely nonexistent, next to zero off-ball movement, no exploiting of mismatches and/or foul situations, and a complete lack of overall strategy.  Basketball used to be a game of chess, and now it's not even checkers, imo.  Guys can't even get a layup off of a 3-on-1 fast break, anymore.  They either botch the play completely or bail the defense out by taking another three, because analytics.  Yawn.     

I think analytics are to blame, too much emphasis on open shots and 3s. However half court offenses are pretty complicated, it's just that they aim for layups or 3s, which don't always work and thus look like nothing happens. Also they always involve picks of some kind, which does look a bit boring.

[nickagneta]

Analytics are to blame for the change in style of the game and the erosion of the mid-range game, but so has the decrease of the quality big man. Big players aren't being taught the inside game at the AAU and high school levels any more. Big guys are expected to develop their outside games and dribbling ability much more and their post game footwork and post game shooting much less. No one is taught how to box out anymore, its all about using your athleticism to jump over guys to get rebounds.

As for the pick and roll, pick and pop game, its no more prevalent than decades ago its just being done farther from the basket. Also, screens off ball to open up three point shooters and cuts to open areas for passes to do easy cuts and alley oops are seen more. What I also notice being different in the game are designed passes cross court to weak side open shooters. That sedom happened before 2000.

Three pointers and layups are just more efficient offense than mid range jumpers and dumping it into big men that have bad footwork and bad post games. My guess is if we see some Shaq and Duncan type players come into the game, those teams with those players will change away to a hybrid post game/ball movement in and out/three pointer game we saw San Antonio playing for so long.

[Rosco917]

I know we talk about rebounding a great deal, and I've always considered it a very important part of the game. I'm old school I guess...I hate giving up offensive rebounds, it drives my crazy.!

But in todays NBA coaches are more interested in team rebounding, and bigs that can run the floor and get back on defense, protect against open 3's, much more than in the past.

Maybe in the scheme of things the C's don't have the same concerns about it, as we do.