Lowe: C's leaning toward starting Horford at Center

[SHAQATTACK]

by years end , Tatum will be big trouble for teams with bad benchs .  That dude is gonna get his points .

[crimson_stallion]

It's about time. Considering how drastically the center position has changed the past few years, it just doesn't make much sense to start someone like Baynes or a center like him who can't hit long range jumpers.

Tbh I'm not concerned about Baynes' lack of shooting.  I don't feel EVERY starter NEEDS to be able to shoot threes, and Baynes actually seems to be a very capable midrange shooter:

* 14% of his attempts came from 10-16 feet last year, and he shot 53% on those (39% career)
* 10% of his attempts came from 16 < 3PT last year, and he shot 43% on those (43% career)

That's a total of 24% (or roughly 1/4) of all his field goal attempts coming from midrange, at something like 49% shooting.  That's actually some pretty elite shooting from midrange.

What I am concerned about is his career average of 5 fouls per 36 minutes, which might make it difficult for Boston to depend on him to play starters minutes on a consistent basis.  We could always play him how we played Amir (start him, but only play him 20 mins) but not sure that's the best option.

While I'm not a fan of the total lack of rebounding it would produce, starting Morris at PF (and Horford at C) does seem like the wiser idea.  And while we don't NEED five starters who can all shoot the three, having that does make us extremely dangerous - especially when two of those guys are as deadly from thee as Kyrie and Hayward are.

That said, I think Baynes could be a really big impact guy for us off the bench.  His ability to finish around the basket, score from midrange, rebound, block shots and play physical defence - could make him really crucial for that second unit.

[Surferdad]

I think the "Horford doesn't want to play center" story is overblown. He's never liked playing center but he did it for virtually his entire career in Atlanta and did a bunch of it in the playoffs last year. And I think his playoff performances (coupled with the look of this new roster) are enough to make him the full time, starting center. I'm sure we'll see him alongside Baynes or an as-yet-unsigned traditional center from time to time as well but primarily he'll be our center.

This.  Circumstances have changed for Horford, and also the league has changed in the last five years.  Having a good outside shooting and passing from the 5 position is now a real trend.

I could see this evolving based on how Smart, Brown and Tatum play. Is Smart better offensively this year? Can Tatum score at the NBA level? Is Brown a stabilizing presence or still prone to rookie-type mistakes?

I think the 2 position comes down to Smart or Brown, and I lean toward Smart since he is more experienced, a better defender and doesn't need to be a great shooter in a starting role with other great shooters on the floor.  So I will bet on the following starting five:
Kyrie
Smart
Hayward
Morris
Horford

Brown is first wing off the bench.  Rozier is the logical backup PG (though Smart will slide over to PG at times).  Baynes is the first big off the bench.  Beyond those 8, it's really hard to speculate because there is a load of inexperience there: Tatum, Theis, Yabu, Nader, Ojeleye.  Larkin is your PG insurance policy.

[crimson_stallion]

I think the "Horford doesn't want to play center" story is overblown. He's never liked playing center but he did it for virtually his entire career in Atlanta and did a bunch of it in the playoffs last year. And I think his playoff performances (coupled with the look of this new roster) are enough to make him the full time, starting center. I'm sure we'll see him alongside Baynes or an as-yet-unsigned traditional center from time to time as well but primarily he'll be our center.

This.  Circumstances have changed for Horford, and also the league has changed in the last five years.  Having a good outside shooting and passing from the 5 position is now a real trend.

I could see this evolving based on how Smart, Brown and Tatum play. Is Smart better offensively this year? Can Tatum score at the NBA level? Is Brown a stabilizing presence or still prone to rookie-type mistakes?

I think the 2 position comes down to Smart or Brown, and I lean toward Smart since he is more experienced, a better defender and doesn't need to be a great shooter in a starting role with other great shooters on the floor.  So I will bet on the following starting five:
Kyrie
Smart
Hayward
Morris
Horford

Brown is first wing off the bench.  Rozier is the logical backup PG (though Smart will slide over to PG at times).  Baynes is the first big off the bench.  Beyond those 8, it's really hard to speculate because there is a load of inexperience there: Tatum, Theis, Yabu, Nader, Ojeleye.  Larkin is your PG insurance policy.

I don't hate this idea of Smart playing the starting SG spot, but if we do go that route then I think it does raise serious concerns about the experience level of our bench.  With Smart starting out bench would be Rozier, Brown, Tatum and Baynes - Baynes is basically the only guy on that list with significant NBA experience. 

I like Smart's fit in the starting 5, but I feel that our second unit could really benefit from his veteran leadership (lol sounds so odd saying that about a guy so young) and his defensive presence. 

[Big333223]

I don't hate this idea of Smart playing the starting SG spot, but if we do go that route then I think it does raise serious concerns about the experience level of our bench.  With Smart starting out bench would be Rozier, Brown, Tatum and Baynes - Baynes is basically the only guy on that list with significant NBA experience. 

I like Smart's fit in the starting 5, but I feel that our second unit could really benefit from his veteran leadership (lol sounds so odd saying that about a guy so young) and his defensive presence.

I imagine a scenario where Smart is a true 6th man. He'll come off the bench so he can lead the second unit but finish a lot of games alongside Irving.

[Somebody]

I don't think it's a problem as long as we preach collective rebounding, Horford boxes out really well.

[cman88]

Horford was a beast in the playoffs compared to the regular season. whether that was due to how they used him or him taking it easy due to his age I dont know. But he destroyed centers off the dribble/from the outside.

as for smart, I want him on the bench and Jaylen starting. with all the youth and newcomers we need a veteran presence on the bench imo

[Vermont Green]

Center, Big, Power Forward, what is the difference these days.  I don't think Horford's role will be much different than last season where Amir was the so-called starting center.  I don't really see much difference.  It is semantics.  I doubt it matters to Horford.

I do agree with some of the concern with the experience we will have on the bench.  Usually when a team is a final 4 caliber of team, they have a collection of veterans on the bench.  Not stars, but good solid players.  We have this collection of promising young players which is not a bad thing, but just not usual for a team contending for the ECF.  Should be interesting.

[billysan]

Center, Big, Power Forward, what is the difference these days.  I don't think Horford's role will be much different than last season where Amir was the so-called starting center.  I don't really see much difference.  It is semantics.  I doubt it matters to Horford.

I do agree with some of the concern with the experience we will have on the bench.  Usually when a team is a final 4 caliber of team, they have a collection of veterans on the bench.  Not stars, but good solid players.  We have this collection of promising young players which is not a bad thing, but just not usual for a team contending for the ECF.  Should be interesting.

Agree, we have a few players at the big or center position that need to be productive and play like veterans. Baynes, Morris, and thies to be specific. If they don't produce at least modestly then a trade may be likely.  I don't think it is fair or realistic to include Tatum, Yabusele or semih  in rebounding discussions at this stage.

As to starting center I'm pretty sure the job will be filled during pre season. Should be fun to watch.

[nickagneta]

Center, Big, Power Forward, what is the difference these days.  I don't think Horford's role will be much different than last season where Amir was the so-called starting center.  I don't really see much difference.  It is semantics.  I doubt it matters to Horford.

I do agree with some of the concern with the experience we will have on the bench.  Usually when a team is a final 4 caliber of team, they have a collection of veterans on the bench.  Not stars, but good solid players.  We have this collection of promising young players which is not a bad thing, but just not usual for a team contending for the ECF.  Should be interesting.

Agree, we have a few players at the big or center position that need to be productive and play like veterans. Baynes, Morris, and thies to be specific. If they don't produce at least modestly then a trade may be likely.  I don't think it is fair or realistic to include Tatum, Yabusele or semih  in rebounding discussions at this stage.

As to starting center I'm pretty sure the job will be filled during pre season. Should be fun to watch.

I'm not going to put too much faith in Theis filling too much of a PF role. He has no NBA experience and though he won DPOY in the Bundesliga, he only played 19 or so minutes per game averaging 9PPG and 4 RPG. Players like that from Europe don't usually excel or even get playing time in the NBA. I do hope he can do well but I wouldn't count on it.

He

[kozlodoev]

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/09/boston_celtics_news_team_leani.html

I would absolutely love this, and I, along with several other posters, have long been arguing for this type of starting lineup change. This would most likely mean Morris starting at the 4, which would give us maximal spacing, shooting, and passing, and it would give Kyrie, Brown/Smart, Hayward, and Morris all kinds of room to take their man to the basket, along with a ton of options for PnR play.

Sizzling take by MassLive. Like that was ever really in doubt.

I never thought it was, but plenty of people thought it would be Baynes due to the Amir situation last year.

But Baynes isn't similar to Amir (who is infinitely more skilled, even if he's on his last legs). Baynes is more along the lines of what we thought Tyler Zeller could become. I think it's pretty clear who this guy is at this stage of his career -- and starting-caliber NBA center he is not.

Re: whoever brought Theis into this... you trying to tell us that a 25-year old player who couldn't carve himself a regular starting role in the Bundesliga will miraculously start for us? Please.

[jpotter33]

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/09/boston_celtics_news_team_leani.html

I would absolutely love this, and I, along with several other posters, have long been arguing for this type of starting lineup change. This would most likely mean Morris starting at the 4, which would give us maximal spacing, shooting, and passing, and it would give Kyrie, Brown/Smart, Hayward, and Morris all kinds of room to take their man to the basket, along with a ton of options for PnR play.

Sizzling take by MassLive. Like that was ever really in doubt.

I never thought it was, but plenty of people thought it would be Baynes due to the Amir situation last year.

But Baynes isn't similar to Amir (who is infinitely more skilled, even if he's on his last legs). Baynes is more along the lines of what we thought Tyler Zeller could become. I think it's pretty clear who this guy is at this stage of his career -- and starting-caliber NBA center he is not.

Re: whoever brought Theis into this... you trying to tell us that a 25-year old player who couldn't carve himself a regular starting role in the Bundesliga will miraculously start for us? Please.

Well, I agree with your larger overall thought, but calling Amir "infinitely more skilled" is quite a stretch 

I also think it had more to do with context than Amir himself. Though JJ was a more ideal starter than Amir with regard to his style and skill set, he simply wasn't good enough to justify starting him. And with our lack of bench scoring, KO had to stay with the bench to keep some sort of scoring presence with them. Thus, Amir continued to start even with his lackluster play and poor fit with Horford.

[kozlodoev]

Well, I agree with your larger overall thought, but calling Amir "infinitely more skilled" is quite a stretch 

Amir can pass and make a three. Baynes isn't even in the same plane of existence when it comes to these. He's of course bigger, stronger, and not on his last legs, but that's a different story

I don't really feel Jerebko was a better fit. Amir could challenge shots at the rim so together with Horford they gave us some semblance of interior defense. We will likely get to see a more talented Jerebko clone start in Morris this season, but I'm skeptical about how well this is going to go. We're giving up even more interior defense and rebounding now.

[spikelovetheCelts]

This all leads me to Bogut being signed and playing 22-25 minutes and start like he did with GSW.
Bring in Smart for Bogut, Then Tatum would come in for Brown. You would leave KI or Heyward in with Rozier coming in. Baynes then would come in for either KI or Heyward is what I see.

[Surferdad]

I think the "Horford doesn't want to play center" story is overblown. He's never liked playing center but he did it for virtually his entire career in Atlanta and did a bunch of it in the playoffs last year. And I think his playoff performances (coupled with the look of this new roster) are enough to make him the full time, starting center. I'm sure we'll see him alongside Baynes or an as-yet-unsigned traditional center from time to time as well but primarily he'll be our center.

This.  Circumstances have changed for Horford, and also the league has changed in the last five years.  Having a good outside shooting and passing from the 5 position is now a real trend.

I could see this evolving based on how Smart, Brown and Tatum play. Is Smart better offensively this year? Can Tatum score at the NBA level? Is Brown a stabilizing presence or still prone to rookie-type mistakes?

I think the 2 position comes down to Smart or Brown, and I lean toward Smart since he is more experienced, a better defender and doesn't need to be a great shooter in a starting role with other great shooters on the floor.  So I will bet on the following starting five:
Kyrie
Smart
Hayward
Morris
Horford

Brown is first wing off the bench.  Rozier is the logical backup PG (though Smart will slide over to PG at times).  Baynes is the first big off the bench.  Beyond those 8, it's really hard to speculate because there is a load of inexperience there: Tatum, Theis, Yabu, Nader, Ojeleye.  Larkin is your PG insurance policy.

I don't hate this idea of Smart playing the starting SG spot, but if we do go that route then I think it does raise serious concerns about the experience level of our bench.  With Smart starting out bench would be Rozier, Brown, Tatum and Baynes - Baynes is basically the only guy on that list with significant NBA experience. 

I like Smart's fit in the starting 5, but I feel that our second unit could really benefit from his veteran leadership (lol sounds so odd saying that about a guy so young) and his defensive presence.

Baynes, Rozier and Brown all have NBA experience and Theis is a 'mature' rookie.  Beyond that, how does Tatum get minutes if not starting?  I do not share your concern and feel the 1st priority is the starting five.