Lowe: C's leaning toward starting Horford at Center

[droopdog7]

I'm excited on the offensive end of the floor for an Irving-Brown-Hayward-Morris-Horford lineup.

That's gotta be the worst rebounding team in the league though.

Yup, very excited about the offense.  I think the defense will be fine too.  But rebounding is the elephant in the room.  If we are catastrophically bad, then this team will underachieve big time.

[Rosco917]

I'm excited on the offensive end of the floor for an Irving-Brown-Hayward-Morris-Horford lineup.

That's gotta be the worst rebounding team in the league though.

Yup, very excited about the offense.  I think the defense will be fine too.  But rebounding is the elephant in the room.  If we are catastrophically bad, then this team will underachieve big time.

It will be fine on offense I agree, but on D as everyone has said it will be a problem. It's more than having a poor rebounding team, it's about giving up the dreaded offensive rebound.

Today's NBA teams rely more on getting back on defense rather than fighting for offensive rebounds, and this is fine on the evenings when the rebounds bounce your way.

But on nights when the opposition realizes that the C's are susceptible to giving up offensive rebounds, and begins to dominate offensive rebound put backs...the Celtics will need a guy they can turn to to get control of the boards.

[kozlodoev]

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/09/boston_celtics_news_team_leani.html

I would absolutely love this, and I, along with several other posters, have long been arguing for this type of starting lineup change. This would most likely mean Morris starting at the 4, which would give us maximal spacing, shooting, and passing, and it would give Kyrie, Brown/Smart, Hayward, and Morris all kinds of room to take their man to the basket, along with a ton of options for PnR play.

Sizzling take by MassLive. Like that was ever really in doubt.

[jpotter33]

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/09/boston_celtics_news_team_leani.html

I would absolutely love this, and I, along with several other posters, have long been arguing for this type of starting lineup change. This would most likely mean Morris starting at the 4, which would give us maximal spacing, shooting, and passing, and it would give Kyrie, Brown/Smart, Hayward, and Morris all kinds of room to take their man to the basket, along with a ton of options for PnR play.

Sizzling take by MassLive. Like that was ever really in doubt.

I never thought it was, but plenty of people thought it would be Baynes due to the Amir situation last year.

[D Dub]

Well if you are gonna start three swings, should probably also start your best big -- and that's Al. 

With all the work Brown is putting in, expecting him to get the starting 2 spot.

Smart is going to be key for us.  Basically is our second ball handler, our best perimeter defender, and our small-ball big.  I think he'll be in the mix for 6th man award. 

I expect he'll be first off the bench, coming in for Horford (yes, it does seem crazy..but hear me out) who'd allows Morris to slide up to 5, and Kyrie over to shooting guard where Brad can free him up for a lot of those motion-handoff scoring opportunities. 

To start the 2nd and 4th quarters, I'm expecting to see a second unit anchored by Rozier, Brown and Tatum, with Yabu/Semi also in the mix to spell Gordon.

Brad, having a long history of trust with Hayward, might see him fit to average the most mpg on the team -- using him as the 'lone starter w/ reserve' often.

Not sure what to expect from Baynes or Daniel 'The Iceman' Theis.  Seems the league is going away from their role.   Likely they'll get to compete for a role as Horford's backup big.   

We're going to be a jaugernaut.   Our death lineup matches up well against both Cle and GS:

Curry  vs.   IT    vs.  Smart
Klay.          JR          Kyrie
Iggy.         Jae.        Hayward
KD.           LBJ.        Brown
Green.        Love.      Horford

[max215]

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/09/boston_celtics_news_team_leani.html

I would absolutely love this, and I, along with several other posters, have long been arguing for this type of starting lineup change. This would most likely mean Morris starting at the 4, which would give us maximal spacing, shooting, and passing, and it would give Kyrie, Brown/Smart, Hayward, and Morris all kinds of room to take their man to the basket, along with a ton of options for PnR play.

Sizzling take by MassLive. Like that was ever really in doubt.

I never thought it was, but plenty of people thought it would be Baynes due to the Amir situation last year.

I thought they'd start Baynes. Losing some of our big depth definitely changed the equation.

[ETNCeltics]

Simple answer is against some teams, a Horford/Morris combo would be good, against others, a Horford/Baynes combo will probably work better.

Even if all the above do well, we'll eventually need a contribution from Theis/Yabu/Semi. We may add a decent big man soon, but someone will get hurt and a young guy will have to step up.

[ThePaintedArea]

I'm excited on the offensive end of the floor for an Irving-Brown-Hayward-Morris-Horford lineup.

That's gotta be the worst rebounding team in the league though.

True, but it doesn't get better as you go down the roster.

People tend to lump offensive and defensive rebounding together, but that doesn't give a clear picture.

Offensive rebounding is part of offense, and it's a function not just of how beasty your bigs are but of how you play offense; San Antonio in this era, for example, has not been a good offensive rebounding team, while its offense has been consistently elite, innovative, and widely imitated.  You could make a good case that offensive rebounding is among many choices for having an efficient offense, and by no means the most desirable of them.

Defensive rebounding, on the other hand, is not optional. If the rest of your defense is good, and your defensive rebounding is bad (see, for instance, the 2016-17 Celtics), then your whole defensive efficiency suffers. Boston had outstanding FG defense last season (fifth in the league), while the defensive rebounding dragged them down (27th in defensive rebounding, 13th in total defense).

Unfortunately, the prospect for the upcoming season is worse. Olynyk was the top defensive rebounder last season, at 20.7; replacing him with Baynes (21.6) is likely a marginal upgrade. But after that it tails off steeply. If Morris starts, we might expect an increase from his minuscule 12.8 - he'll be called on to do that; but is it likely that he'll be better than Crowder or Johnson? Morris would have to have a career year plus on the defensive boards.

No need to belabor the point - this is a big deal and something to keep an eye on from game one.

[gouki88]

Anything prohibiting Tatum from playing a small ball 4?

Probably a lack of weight at this stage. Morris would be considerably stronger. Down the track I reckon this will change.

[Big333223]

I think the "Horford doesn't want to play center" story is overblown. He's never liked playing center but he did it for virtually his entire career in Atlanta and did a bunch of it in the playoffs last year. And I think his playoff performances (coupled with the look of this new roster) are enough to make him the full time, starting center. I'm sure we'll see him alongside Baynes or an as-yet-unsigned traditional center from time to time as well but primarily he'll be our center.

[timpiker]

I think it'll depend on the matchups - if its Drummond, then Baynes, etc.

[Boris Badenov]

Whether we start Morris seems like it depends (a lot) on whether we have enough offense and veteran leadership off the bench in that scenario. To me anyway.

I could see this evolving based on how Smart, Brown and Tatum play. Is Smart better offensively this year? Can Tatum score at the NBA level? Is Brown a stabilizing presence or still prone to rookie-type mistakes?  Lots of unknowns. And maybe I'm wrong but Morris seems a more likely second unit leader than Baynes.

[Hank Finkel]

Here is my line up
Irving
Brown
Hayward
Morris
Horford

Smart - 6th
Baynes
Theis
Tatum
Rozier

Deep bench
Semi, Nader, Yab, Larkin
This bench is really weak. One starter will have to stay on the floor with the second until someone besides Smart steps up.   I am hoping Tatum, Rozier, and one of (Theis, Yab, Semi, Nader) step up for the second team.  We know what Baynes and Larkin are.  I would like one more big to help our depth and rebounding. 

[Boris Badenov]

Smart - 6th
Baynes
Theis
Tatum
Rozier

This bench is really weak. One starter will have to stay on the floor with the second until someone besides Smart steps up.

Yeah this is what I was saying. I hope that unit above spends exactly zero minutes on the court, unless we are winning or losing by 25.

As I look at it now, it makes sense to sub Kyrie fairly early with Smart. Then Kyrie can play with the second unit with a 45% USG rate. If there's one thing we should all agree on about him, it's that he's a great ISO scorer.

[nickagneta]

Here is my line up
Irving
Brown
Hayward
Morris
Horford

Smart - 6th
Baynes
Theis
Tatum
Rozier

Deep bench
Semi, Nader, Yab, Larkin
This bench is really weak. One starter will have to stay on the floor with the second until someone besides Smart steps up.   I am hoping Tatum, Rozier, and one of (Theis, Yab, Semi, Nader) step up for the second team.  We know what Baynes and Larkin are.  I would like one more big to help our depth and rebounding.

This is my worry. Before the trade you could have Smart, Baynes and Crowder anchoring the second unit. Now it is critical for this team's success to get 2 and possibly 3 players with no NBA experience to play like rotational NBA players.

Could see this team taking a step back to less than 50 wins this year unless someone on that bench really becomes amazing.