What would you have done? (Kyrie trade or otherwise)

[Fafnir]

Not a given but one helluva gamble (Although you can say Danny ultimately found himself another pretty risky gamble with the Kyrie trade)

I think Danny is much more comfortable gambling on Kyrie being really good for us than that George wouldn't bolt. He didn't do the trade till Kyrie gave his ascent (trade kicker waive) and "assurances" that he's likely to stay long term.


To the thread's main premise I think I'd have stuck with Fultz. I don't blame him for prefering to get Hayward for the cost of Bradley and cap space than trading a bunch of pieces for Butler. But I figured Fultz was the guy to go with at guard when moving on from IT.

[Onslaught]

Nothing different.

I didn’t want Fultz and think trading down was smart.
I didn’t want a one year rental on Paul George so Magic of all people could take him away from us.
I was indifferent about Butler.
At first I would shocked at the I.T trade but now I think it was the best idea.

Only thing that hurts now is Avery Bradley but I understand why that happened.
Only thing I’d change is the jerseys having a “GEE logo on them.

[TheSundanceKid]

I feel that many are criticizing the move without providing a better path forward. Was the status quo (letting IT walk after this year and drafting with BKN's pick) better than this? Danny wasn't going to pay IT what he wanted- I think this is obvious at this point.

In my eyes, Danny consolidated and improved the roster, opening up more room to add valuable role players down the road. I think that Danny realized this team had gone as far as they could, and needed to shake it up to get to the next level.

I certainly think this is more important than trying to bring back a similar team next year.

Why is it obvious? Danny would've paid IT if it came to it. What we can say is he clearly had reservations about it and when an opportunity to improve came along he did it. That's all. If the Irving trade hadn't happened we may have found another one that worked or we may have stayed the course on the original path of re-signing IT and waiting out GS.

Danny just paid full price for a player that is not remarkably different than the PG that he had on the team. Why give up BKN 18 if Danny wanted to resign IT?

He is remarkably different. Irving's handle is on another level, as is his shot creation. He's also younger which is where the majority of the payment comes from.
And I said Danny would have signed IT if it came to it. Danny isn't in the business of letting important assets go for free and there would be no clear path to replacing Isaiah either.

Saying that Ainge decided he wasn't going to pay IT isn't the same thing as saying he would let him walk. He would have made another deal. The quality of the assets he used prove that.

He'd only make a deal of the team got better. He wouldn't make a deal for the sake of it. Otherwise we could well have seen Isaiah traded for George earlier in the offseason.
The quality of the assets is up for debate. Crowder was a luxury this year and Danny has made the point of saying that clearing playing time for Brown and Tatum played a part in that. Zizic can't be considered a major piece. The Brooklyn pick is very uncertain. Brooklyn have had a good summer by all accounts, it remains to be seen if that'll make a difference. If the pick is outside the top 6 then the value of the asset drops significantly.

Isaiah had a great year, Irving has had a great career and is also younger. This was a trade to get a more desirable player, not a dump of an impending free agent.

[nebist]

Re: nebist

I like the idea of having all four guys under contract for next year and it would give us a great opportunity to really compete against the Warriors.

The major problem in the plan was there was no guarantee at Hayward at that point in time. Sure, the team might have looked even more appealing to him than it did at the time of his decision, but we just had no way in knowing.

Without Hayward, trading away Smart, AB, and Crowder would have been a huge net loss. Fast forward to next off-season and if George really does leave for LAL and Ainge can't get himself to give IT the max (after being injured) and we are left with Horford and a bunch of youngsters.

I realize I am presenting the worst case scenario, but without that guarantee that Hayward was signing, I can see why Ainge was trigger-shy on the George deal. If George could have been had after signing Hayward, I believe that would have been his top option.

But I don't think we can complain now, we have opened the window up for this team for several additional years and acquired an all-star with plenty of room to grow. Also, thank goodness Ainge acquired an additional high level lotto pick to help make up for the one he lost in this deal.

Definitely a gamble.  But one I would have taken for a player the caliber of Paul George (I personally like George better than Butler).  And with hindsight being that we did get Hayward, the gamble would have worked out. 

[Dino Pitino]

As I have posted in other threads, I would change nothing. Isaiah's hip and size and contract situation demanded that we move on from him, and instead of waiting and gambling on Fultz being the PG heir, we got a still-young certainty in Irving to be the heir right away. That's awesome. Tatum was their idea of the best player in his class, worthy of the #1 pick, and if I had Kyrie already I would trade Isaiah, Crowder, and Zizic for Tatum all day every day. With the Nets-Lakers picks cancelling each other out. I would do exactly what Ainge has done.

[snively]

I would have kept Fultz, traded IT/AB to Milwaukee for Middleton, traded Horford for cap space (maybe to Houston), resigned KO and made a fat offer on Noel.

Fultz/Rozier
Middleton/Smart
Crowder/Brown
KO/Yabs
Noel/Zizic

Mediocre team in the short-term, but prospects at every position, nice skill balance and plenty of room, age-wise, to grow.

[timpiker]

No way in hell I'd give IT the max even if he was healthy.  I think a lot of posters here want their cake and eat it too.

[Neurotic Guy]

Gonna wait until I have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. 

I'm with you on this.   I can't fathom how to improve on what Ainge did without seeing how this brand new team (8 out of 12) does on the court together.    I am not convinced that IT (presumed healthy), George and Butler together would be better than Smart, Hayward, Kyrie, Tatum (none of whom would presumably be here if DA was able to get PG and JB). 

Like many others, I still have the wish that Nets '18 should still be in the C's possession, or protected.   But... the Nets might well have hit rock bottom and may be climbing the ladder next year.  In which case (had we kept it) we'd have been agonizing about not trading the pick when it had its top value.

[mctyson]

What would you have done differently this off-season, if anything.

Hard to say without knowing what was truly available in other talks such as Paul George.  If we could have had him for Avery + Crowder + 2018 Brooklyn, and IT is healthy for the playoffs, wouldn't that trade plus drafting Fultz as IT insurance be a better offseason?

I was not a fan of the Kyrie trade at first (because of the BK pick inclusion) but I have come around to accept that Danny was never re-signing IT and that his hip injury does indeed make him somewhat damaged goods, a la Rondo.  So I guess I don't change that trade, and while it hurts to be forced to trade AB in order to sign Hayward, that's just the way things go and at least we got a serviceable cheap big for a couple years.

If I could change one thing, I would change the protections on the LAL/SAC pick.  I would have thrown in the Memphis or LAC pick to get a restriction moved.  I like the #6+ upper limit on the 2018 LAL pick, and can tolerate the #1 protection on it, but I do not like that the pick is also #1 protected in 2019.  At the very least, throw another #6+ upper limit on it and get an unprotected 1st from Philly in 2020.  I feel like the return on the trade down from #1 was a bit light considering the Cs were operating from strength.

[Rosco917]

Without the benefit of 20-20 hindsight I can't put a brighter picture together than Danny did.

I was hot for Fultz, mostly to groom him to replace IT. But after seeing Tatum in the Summer League, and with us acquiring Hayward in free agency, and Kyrie through trade, I'm content and ready to go forward.

I would have liked getting PG13, but his desire to play in LA was a potential problem in my mind, and still is, for the Rockets.

Butler was a player I really liked, and would have teamed well with IT, if IT was healthy. Danny not getting the Butler deal done was a concern, because if Hayward chose not to come here, I would have questioned not sweetening the deal on Butler.

All in all, I'm ready for some ball.

[DooVoo]

I would have kept Fultz, traded IT/AB to Milwaukee for Middleton, traded Horford for cap space (maybe to Houston), resigned KO and made a fat offer on Noel.

Fultz/Rozier
Middleton/Smart
Crowder/Brown
KO/Yabs
Noel/Zizic

Mediocre team in the short-term, but prospects at every position, nice skill balance and plenty of room, age-wise, to grow.

That team would be maybe a 7 or 8 seed in the East and totally relying on Brown and Fultz to develop into stars. Zizic isn't even a backup center in the league right now and a fat offer to Noel who has averaged 38 games in 5 NBA seasons? yikes. Thank god for Danny Ainge.

[greece66]

I would have kept Fultz, traded IT/AB to Milwaukee for Middleton, traded Horford for cap space (maybe to Houston), resigned KO and made a fat offer on Noel.

Fultz/Rozier
Middleton/Smart
Crowder/Brown
KO/Yabs
Noel/Zizic

Mediocre team in the short-term, but prospects at every position, nice skill balance and plenty of room, age-wise, to grow.

That team would be maybe a 7 or 8 seed in the East and totally relying on Brown and Fultz to develop into stars. Zizic isn't even a backup center in the league right now and a fat offer to Noel who has averaged 38 games in 5 NBA seasons? yikes. Thank god for Danny Ainge.

He missed the 2013-4 season. Since then he has played 193 games in 3 seasons.

[nickagneta]

Its easy for us to say what we would have done but we didn't have all the info Ainge did. We didn't see any of the draft workouts. We weren't at the draft interviews so didn't know what these kids are like. We didn't have IT's injury knowledge. We weren't sure how much certainty there was in landing Hayward. We didn't know what Chicago and Indiana were demanding for George and Butler. Sure there were rumors but no direct knowledge.

I liked the move down away from Fultz. I loved his raw talent but was unsure about his personality, drive, and ability to be a leader. I liked Tatum a lot, prolly because I watched a ton of ACC basketball. So moving down and grabbing Tatum, I would have done. One thing I would have held out for is not having the top pick protection for Philly for the 2019 pick.

I also would have persued Hayward so I am good there.

I would probably looked to move Smart instead of Bradley. If we could have landed a future first for Smart, that's the way I would have cleared salary.

As more and more info comes out about IT's hip situation, I guess I would have done the Kyrie trade as well but would have insisted on giving up the LA/Sac pick and the Memphis pick rather than give up the Brooklyn pick.

[Vermont Green]

Butler probably costs us Brown, Rozier, and Tatum.  I am not sorry we didn't do that.

I lost interest in Paul George when it became clear he would be a rental.

Love the Hayward signing.

Understand the Bradley for Morris trade, and I like Morris for what he will be.

I love the Tatum + Lakers/Sac/Philly Pick for Fultz trade.

I understand the Irving trade.

Would want to get Porzingis but since he has not been traded, not sure there is anything we missed.

So that is two big wins (Hayward, Tatum + Pick), two good solid team building trades (Morris, Irving), and we avoided two trades I didn't want to do.  That adds up to me being pretty happy.

I think we need a veteran SG/Wing, I don't think Smart or Brown are quite ready to assume that.  Not sure how we get that without trading maybe Smart or Rozier.

[Darío SpanishFan]

I would have kept Fultz. I would h then traded IT on draft night. Probably lost out on Hayward with that  move as well as Irving. Probably extend AB.

Fultz, AB, Crowder, Horford, and Baynes isn't bad and still have Nets pick.

It isn't bad. But it's much worse than what we have now.