Author Topic: Kyrie instantly the Alpha, and leader of the Team  (Read 4548 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Kyrie instantly the Alpha, and leader of the Team
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2017, 09:29:03 PM »

Offline ayer

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 211
  • Tommy Points: 1065
He might be the best player but to me it looks like everyone respects and listens to Horford.  And Smart is the motivational rah rah type to get behind.  Everyone may know that Irving is our best player but that won't automatically make him the emotional leader.
This is also how I feel. If Kyrie wants to be the alpha, pay respect to who's the alpha on the team first, then take it from there.

Re: Kyrie instantly the Alpha, and leader of the Team
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2017, 10:42:36 PM »

Offline Snakehead

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6846
  • Tommy Points: 448
Just a "alpha" and pack mentality is a shallow and goofy way to look at it.  I think Kyrie will be the guy you give the ball to so he is the guy in that sense.  But I think Al is kind of the mind of the team you could say in a lot of ways, while I personally think Smart is really set up to be the soul that brings a lot of energy and powers the defense.

Everyone can have their role.  I think the mix works.

For Kyrie I think it was less he just wanted to be an alpha vs that situation in Cleveland.  It's not just that you are second to LeBron, it's the offense, it's the coaching, it's being at the mercy of LeBron's decision, it's a team with a shaky front office, a team with little room for growth with young players.  Those were all factors where I get why he wants out.
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: Kyrie instantly the Alpha, and leader of the Team
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2017, 10:45:15 PM »

Offline PickNRoll

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1691
  • Tommy Points: 199
The "alpha dog" idea is overstated and over-valued, probably a shockwave from the MJ dynasty.  Who was the "alpha" on all those great Spurs teams?  Golden State?  04' Pistons.  Was it Shaq or was it Kobe?  Is Steve Nash an "alpha"?  Who cares?

Some good teams have one and some don't.  We have a group of highly professional, competitive, disciplined guys.  They listen to Stevens and they execute.  We don't need someone barking in the huddle.


 No. It's not overblown. Shaq was the alpha. Bird was the Alpha. Billups was on Detroit. Name a team I'll tell you who the Alpha was.
 Thanks for playing try again.
OK.

17' Warriors
15' Hawks
13' Nuggets
98' Pacers
98' Wizards
01' Kings
every Spurs team
every Jazz team

Not every team has some hyper-dominant guy shouting in practice.  It can be a collective.




 You have a misunderstanding of what Alpha means.

 Steph Curry was the aloha before Durant got there. Is he pounding his chest and screaming in practice?

 King's Chris Webber
Pacers Reggie Miller obviously
 Hawk's they sucked no Alpha


 Spurs Tim Duncan. Again, don't have to ba a jerk to be the Alpha.
Hawks won 60 games.   Cheryl was Reggie's alpha.  Do you just mean the best player, because that isn't my definition of alpha?

Re: Kyrie instantly the Alpha, and leader of the Team
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2017, 02:51:42 AM »

Offline Bucketgetter

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1227
  • Tommy Points: 11
The "alpha dog" idea is overstated and over-valued, probably a shockwave from the MJ dynasty.  Who was the "alpha" on all those great Spurs teams?  Golden State?  04' Pistons.  Was it Shaq or was it Kobe?  Is Steve Nash an "alpha"?  Who cares?

Some good teams have one and some don't.  We have a group of highly professional, competitive, disciplined guys.  They listen to Stevens and they execute.  We don't need someone barking in the huddle.


 No. It's not overblown. Shaq was the alpha. Bird was the Alpha. Billups was on Detroit. Name a team I'll tell you who the Alpha was.
 Thanks for playing try again.
OK.

17' Warriors
15' Hawks
13' Nuggets
98' Pacers
98' Wizards
01' Kings
every Spurs team
every Jazz team

Not every team has some hyper-dominant guy shouting in practice.  It can be a collective.




 You have a misunderstanding of what Alpha means.

 Steph Curry was the aloha before Durant got there. Is he pounding his chest and screaming in practice?

 King's Chris Webber
Pacers Reggie Miller obviously
 Hawk's they sucked no Alpha


 Spurs Tim Duncan. Again, don't have to ba a jerk to be the Alpha.
Hawks won 60 games.   Cheryl was Reggie's alpha.  Do you just mean the best player, because that isn't my definition of alpha?
Exactly. So a #1 seed, 60 winning team that clearly didn’t have an alpha, and his response is that they suck, so no alpha. Dumb argument.
CB Mock Deadline - Minnesota Timberwolves
Kemba Walker / Tyus Jones / Aaron Brooks
Jimmy Butler / Jamal Crawford / Treveon Graham
Rodney Hood / Nic Batum / Marcus Georges Hunt
Taj Gibson / Nemanja Bjelica / Jonas Jerebko
KAT / Derrick Favors / Cole Aldrich
Picks - 2018 CHA 1st (Lotto protected), none out

Re: Kyrie instantly the Alpha, and leader of the Team
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2017, 03:26:03 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8676
  • Tommy Points: 1138

 They did suck. The East sucked. The Alpha was Milsap, but who cares cause there not any good. That team was dismantled. Thanks for playing. Try again.

Re: Kyrie instantly the Alpha, and leader of the Team
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2017, 03:44:12 AM »

Offline Bucketgetter

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1227
  • Tommy Points: 11

 They did suck. The East sucked. The Alpha was Milsap, but who cares cause there not any good. That team was dismantled. Thanks for playing. Try again.
Lol you just said the Hawks sucked so they had no alpha. So which one was it? Whether or not you think a 60 win team sucks, you just said in your previous post that they didn’t have an alpha. But now you’re saying it’s Millsap. Get your story straight pal, you can’t have it both ways.

Thanks for playing. Try again.
CB Mock Deadline - Minnesota Timberwolves
Kemba Walker / Tyus Jones / Aaron Brooks
Jimmy Butler / Jamal Crawford / Treveon Graham
Rodney Hood / Nic Batum / Marcus Georges Hunt
Taj Gibson / Nemanja Bjelica / Jonas Jerebko
KAT / Derrick Favors / Cole Aldrich
Picks - 2018 CHA 1st (Lotto protected), none out

Re: Kyrie instantly the Alpha, and leader of the Team
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2017, 02:55:57 PM »

Offline PickNRoll

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1691
  • Tommy Points: 199

 They did suck. The East sucked. The Alpha was Milsap, but who cares cause there not any good. That team was dismantled. Thanks for playing. Try again.
Lol you just said the Hawks sucked so they had no alpha. So which one was it? Whether or not you think a 60 win team sucks, you just said in your previous post that they didn’t have an alpha. But now you’re saying it’s Millsap. Get your story straight pal, you can’t have it both ways.

Thanks for playing. Try again.
TP!  Here's that sucky Hawk's team crushing everyone, West and East.  They didn't lose a game in January.   ::)  And no, Milsap is not an alpha.




Re: Kyrie instantly the Alpha, and leader of the Team
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2017, 03:10:02 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8676
  • Tommy Points: 1138

 They did suck. The East sucked. The Alpha was Milsap, but who cares cause there not any good. That team was dismantled. Thanks for playing. Try again.
Lol you just said the Hawks sucked so they had no alpha. So which one was it? Whether or not you think a 60 win team sucks, you just said in your previous post that they didn’t have an alpha. But now you’re saying it’s Millsap. Get your story straight pal, you can’t have it both ways.

Thanks for playing. Try again.





 Listen the Hawks we're pretenders. Very good regular season team.  That's it. That team isn't even worth bringing up, if I had to choose a top dog it was Milsap for sure. He's bad ass. He crushed the Celtics until if course Smart shut him down.

Re: Kyrie instantly the Alpha, and leader of the Team
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2017, 03:11:01 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8676
  • Tommy Points: 1138

 They did suck. The East sucked. The Alpha was Milsap, but who cares cause there not any good. That team was dismantled. Thanks for playing. Try again.
Lol you just said the Hawks sucked so they had no alpha. So which one was it? Whether or not you think a 60 win team sucks, you just said in your previous post that they didn’t have an alpha. But now you’re saying it’s Millsap. Get your story straight pal, you can’t have it both ways.

Thanks for playing. Try again.
TP!  Here's that sucky Hawk's team crushing everyone, West and East.  They didn't lose a game in January.   ::)  And no, Milsap is not an alpha.






 If you and Milsap were in a room together he would be the Alpha.

Re: Kyrie instantly the Alpha, and leader of the Team
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2017, 08:15:10 PM »

Offline PickNRoll

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1691
  • Tommy Points: 199

 They did suck. The East sucked. The Alpha was Milsap, but who cares cause there not any good. That team was dismantled. Thanks for playing. Try again.
Lol you just said the Hawks sucked so they had no alpha. So which one was it? Whether or not you think a 60 win team sucks, you just said in your previous post that they didn’t have an alpha. But now you’re saying it’s Millsap. Get your story straight pal, you can’t have it both ways.

Thanks for playing. Try again.
TP!  Here's that sucky Hawk's team crushing everyone, West and East.  They didn't lose a game in January.   ::)  And no, Milsap is not an alpha.






 If you and Milsap were in a room together he would be the Alpha.
If you and Milsap were in a room together, he'd be the top.

Re: Kyrie instantly the Alpha, and leader of the Team
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2017, 11:21:28 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5964
  • Tommy Points: 875
The "alpha dog" idea is overstated and over-valued, probably a shockwave from the MJ dynasty.  Who was the "alpha" on all those great Spurs teams?  Golden State?  04' Pistons.  Was it Shaq or was it Kobe?  Is Steve Nash an "alpha"?  Who cares?

Some good teams have one and some don't.  We have a group of highly professional, competitive, disciplined guys.  They listen to Stevens and they execute.  We don't need someone barking in the huddle.


 No. It's not overblown. Shaq was the alpha. Bird was the Alpha. Billups was on Detroit. Name a team I'll tell you who the Alpha was.
 Thanks for playing try again.
OK.

17' Warriors
15' Hawks
13' Nuggets
98' Pacers
98' Wizards
01' Kings
every Spurs team
every Jazz team

Not every team has some hyper-dominant guy shouting in practice.  It can be a collective.




 You have a misunderstanding of what Alpha means.

 Steph Curry was the aloha before Durant got there. Is he pounding his chest and screaming in practice?

 King's Chris Webber
Pacers Reggie Miller obviously
 Hawk's they sucked no Alpha


 Spurs Tim Duncan. Again, don't have to ba a jerk to be the Alpha.

This..

For example, as good as KG was (I do believe he was the BEST PLAYER on the 08 Celtics), Paul Pierce was IMHO clearly the Alpha of that team.  While KG got many touches, impacted the game in a million ways, and was constantly talking to coordinate the defence - but on offense he was often criticised for being too unselfish, much like Lebron is now.  Even in Minnesota when he was the clear #1, he had a tendency to defer rather then take things in to his own hands.

For the 08 Celtics, when push came to shove and the team desperately needed something to happen, the ball almost always found it's way into Pierce's hands and he almost always put the team on his shoulders and found a way to make something happen. 

To me that is the definition of an Alpha.  Somebody who is a leader not necessarily by words, but by example.  Somebody who will see when things are getting stagnant and will step in and take over. 

For the Jazz it was Malone.  For the Knicks it was Ewing.  For the Mavs it's been Dirk.  For the Bulls it was Jordan.  For the Lakers it was Shaq initially, but then Kobe stepped up into that role after he left - moving forward I feel it will be Ball (as Ingram IMHO isn't that type).  For Miami I would actually say it wad Dwyane Wade, for us last year it was Isaiah.  For the Warriors it was Steph, but Durant took that torch from him the instant he arrived there.  For the Spurs it was Duncan, and now is Kawhi.  For the 76ers it's Embiid (when he's healthy).  For the Cavs the past couple of years, I would actually say it was Kyrie rather than Lebron (who I think is more KG then MJ).  For the Clippers it was Chris Paul. 

Almost every team has a deface Alpha guy. Even in the case of the Hawks, I would say their Alpha was Millsap - he seemed to be the guy who would (more often then not) take over the reigns when they were struggling.

Hayward was the Alpha in Utah, but he never really was the Alpha type - I think he was kind in that role be necessity rather then instinctively. 

Basically just ask yourself this - if it comes to the end of the game, and you have enough time for one shot to potentially win/tie the game, who gets the ball?  Whatever your answer is to that question, that's your Alpha.

Re: Kyrie instantly the Alpha, and leader of the Team
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2017, 11:30:43 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5964
  • Tommy Points: 875

 They did suck. The East sucked. The Alpha was Milsap, but who cares cause there not any good. That team was dismantled. Thanks for playing. Try again.
Lol you just said the Hawks sucked so they had no alpha. So which one was it? Whether or not you think a 60 win team sucks, you just said in your previous post that they didn’t have an alpha. But now you’re saying it’s Millsap. Get your story straight pal, you can’t have it both ways.

Thanks for playing. Try again.
TP!  Here's that sucky Hawk's team crushing everyone, West and East.  They didn't lose a game in January.   ::)  And no, Milsap is not an alpha.



That's what tends to happen with good teams that don't have a natural "Alpha" personality.  These teams can be very deep, very skilled, very well balanced, very well coached.  They can perform incredibly well during the regular season - but when it comes to facing the truly elite teams at the Playoff level, they tend to fail miserably. This is because in the playoffs your opponent spends 2 weeks planning against you - they know your every play, your every move, your every strategy.  It doesn't matter how good you are as a team unit - you need a dominant and fearless Alpha guy who will look his defender directly in the eyes and say "I'm going to shoot this right in your face, and I dare you to try and stop me".

If you don't have that killer on your team, you're probably going to struggle to win against the best playoff teams...and as flawed as Kyrie's overall game is, he is one of those guys.  He has no fear on the court, pure ice in his veins.  You will never see him pass up a good look at the end of a game because he's scared of the backlash he'll receive if he misses. That is an Alpha.

In the case of guys like Millsap in Atlanta and Hayward in Utah (and even KG in Minnesota) - this is basically a case where you don't really have a true Alpha guy on the team, and so by default that role kinda falls to the best player on the team, which is kind of what happened in Boston before Isaiah came here (we had Bradley and Sully pretty much in that role). 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 12:03:50 AM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Kyrie instantly the Alpha, and leader of the Team
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2017, 11:32:55 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8676
  • Tommy Points: 1138

 Awesome post Crimson. Awesome Post.