Brad didn't REALLY make Thomas what he is

[C3LTSF4N]

I'll preface this by saying that I love Brad Stevens and have full confidence in his ability as a coach and I wouldn't trade him for any other coach in the league, but we need to give Thomas more credit.

I've seen a lot of talk about Brad making magic with Evan Turner and "Turning a bench player into an MVP candidate" in Isaiah Thomas.  I agree with Turner but a lot less on the Thomas front and I don't think you can clump them into the same group.  In his last year in SAC, Thomas was starting and averaged 20 points and a career high 6.3 assists on solid shooting.  He had a rough half of season in PHO coming off the bench behind Dragic and Bledsoe and came off of our bench the remaining months of the season.  I don't think you can really say that Brad made him what he is from a bench player.  Isaiah put in so much work to get to where he is.  The Celts helped put him in a position to succeed but most people couldn't have performed like Thomas did.  Isaiah has earned the right to get credit for what he's accomplished and he shouldn't be dumped off as another Brad Stevens success story because there's so much more to it.

I guess this is my goodbye to Isaiah and I couldn't thank him more for everything he's done in saving this team for the last 2 and a half years.  Without him I don't know where we'd be, but I can bet we wouldn't be as well off as we are now.  I just hope he walks out the door with all the appreciation he deserves because we couldn't have done it without him.

[green_bballers13]

Yeah, IT is special. He got overlooked his entire career, and this hasn't stopped yet. Top 5 in MVP votes last year. His composure in the clutch is unique. I hope IT signs with a team not named Cleveland for $1 billion per year and wins multiple MVPs (and a ring here or there). Love the dude. I just don't think he was the guy we should have built around. Last year's playoff run was a good preview of coming attractions.

IT was/is all heart. Yeah, he has crazy skills as a ball handler and can curve the ball the right way around the rim. He's a lights out shooter from 3 in the clutch.

I think 90% of IT's success came from effort. When other players get tired at the end of a game, he steps it into another gear. If Kyrie can exhibit a similar effort, we will have another special player.

[Granath]

I'll preface this by saying that I love Brad Stevens and have full confidence in his ability as a coach and I wouldn't trade him for any other coach in the league, but we need to give Thomas more credit.

I've seen a lot of talk about Brad making magic with Evan Turner and "Turning a bench player into an MVP candidate" in Isaiah Thomas.  I agree with Turner but a lot less on the Thomas front and I don't think you can clump them into the same group.  In his last year in SAC, Thomas was starting and averaged 20 points and a career high 6.3 assists on solid shooting.  He had a rough half of season in PHO coming off the bench behind Dragic and Bledsoe and came off of our bench the remaining months of the season.  I don't think you can really say that Brad made him what he is from a bench player.  Isaiah put in so much work to get to where he is.  The Celts helped put him in a position to succeed but most people couldn't have performed like Thomas did.  Isaiah has earned the right to get credit for what he's accomplished and he shouldn't be dumped off as another Brad Stevens success story because there's so much more to it.

I guess this is my goodbye to Isaiah and I couldn't thank him more for everything he's done in saving this team for the last 2 and a half years.  Without him I don't know where we'd be, but I can bet we wouldn't be as well off as we are now.  I just hope he walks out the door with all the appreciation he deserves because we couldn't have done it without him.

There is more to it than just "Brad Stevens". But let's face it - IT was on the bench despite averaging 20 points and 6 assists per game. Why do you think that is?

It's because he was such a liability in other ways that he wasn't that much of a positive on the court. That's where Danny (who made the trade for him) and Brad come into play. They surmised that they could easily incorporate IT into their system and help hide his deficiencies. Ask him to do what he's good at and to avoid what he can't do. They could pare him with Bradley and Smart to help hide his truly awful defense. They surrounded him with shooters to spread the floor, giving him enough space to drive the lane. IT can't be the offensive juggernaut he showed with a team that can't spread the floor quite that much because he's too small.

In short, they set him up in an ideal situation and showcased him. Thomas could not have achieved what he did without Danny having the foresight to figure this out and without Brad putting him into an ideal situation. And the team couldn't have achieved what they did without IT giving 100%. That's why it was such a fun thing to watch and I'll miss IT. I hope Irving and Danny/Brad can achieve similar things.

[mctyson]

Yeah, IT is special. He got overlooked his entire career, and this hasn't stopped yet. Top 5 in MVP votes last year. His composure in the clutch is unique. I hope IT signs with a team not named Cleveland for $1 billion per year and wins multiple MVPs (and a ring here or there). Love the dude. I just don't think he was the guy we should have built around. Last year's playoff run was a good preview of coming attractions.

IT was/is all heart. Yeah, he has crazy skills as a ball handler and can curve the ball the right way around the rim. He's a lights out shooter from 3 in the clutch.

I think 90% of IT's success came from effort. When other players get tired at the end of a game, he steps it into another gear. If Kyrie can exhibit a similar effort, we will have another special player.

These two statements are completely contradictory.

[moiso]

If he didn't end up in Phoenix with two "almost allstar level" point guards I think he would have continued to build on the 20 and 6 that he averaged in Sac.  So yeah, I think on several teams he would have been averaging big numbers.

[Celtics4ever]

His stats took a big jump forward with CBS while here.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02.html

When you go from 15 PPG to 28 PPG its a big deal.

[playdream]

Some people don't realize how fantasy a coach Stevens is
Yes IT helped himself but without CBS he can really will still be a 6th man or even out of league

[Rosco917]

IT is on the Cavs right now, he's no longer a Celtic. He had a great year last year.

That was then this is now.

[SHAQATTACK]

we ll see what Coach Lebron has instore for his little IT.  ....

Bron better not pat him on the head ....LOL........IT bites.

[C3LTSF4N]

His stats took a big jump forward with CBS while here.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02.html

When you go from 15 PPG to 28 PPG its a big deal.

It's true but that 15ppg was through 46 PHO games on 26 min a game.  I'm just saying I think Thomas was going to enter into the next tier of point guards regardless of the coach.  Danny and Brad certainly wrung out some extra juice out of him, no doubt, but Isaiah's talent brings him to a pretty high floor as long as he's getting reasonable minutes. 

I know he's got deficiencies but you don't average 29 a game in this league at 5'9" because Crowder and Bradley are on the court with you.  I think we'll see that Thomas performs pretty close to Irving's previous production with the Cavs as long as he's healthy.

[incoherent]

IT recognizes the contributions of Brad to his career.  But you deny them? Why?

When you have the last pick in the draft go from Bench ----> 5th in MVP under 1 Coach. You can be sure Brad is going to get some of the credit, as he should.

Would be silly to discredit Brad in anyway, he hasn't done anything but help IT get to where he is.

[Boris Badenov]

Yeah, IT is special. He got overlooked his entire career, and this hasn't stopped yet. Top 5 in MVP votes last year. His composure in the clutch is unique. I hope IT signs with a team not named Cleveland for $1 billion per year and wins multiple MVPs (and a ring here or there). Love the dude. I just don't think he was the guy we should have built around. Last year's playoff run was a good preview of coming attractions.

IT was/is all heart. Yeah, he has crazy skills as a ball handler and can curve the ball the right way around the rim. He's a lights out shooter from 3 in the clutch.

I think 90% of IT's success came from effort. When other players get tired at the end of a game, he steps it into another gear. If Kyrie can exhibit a similar effort, we will have another special player.

These two statements are completely contradictory.

Not if nothing's ever good enough.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

IT4 was always a scorer, no one disagrees. CBS and the other players helped turn him into a winner! Put him on BKN and they still miss the playoffs these past few years. Celtics put him in a position to succeed with a team not just as an individual. Of course he will always score and he will definitely help Cavs if healthy but don't be mistaken, LBJ could take CBrs to the Finals.


Do you truly believe IT4 could take any team without any other stars (like our team) to the playoffs and/or to the ECF? Just truly ask yourself that.


That has nothing to do with who he is as a person and how much he contributed to this org. He is a monster on offense no doubt about it!

[Jon]

Regardless whether Stevens "made" IT or not, he was the first coach to design an offense to let IT flourish and then give him the mpg to score the points he did. Maybe he could have done that in previous places, but clearly other coaches didn't think IT deserving of that focus (which might be why Ainge and Stevens ultimately decided he wasn't a player to build a contender around).

While not an exact comparison, similar things could be said about Nate Robinson. If a team had ever bothered to give him starter minutes with his number called on offense like an All Star would, he could have put up 25+ per game. It's just most coaches thought the other deficiencies he had didn't justify that focus on him.

[C3LTSF4N]

IT recognizes the contributions of Brad to his career.  But you deny them? Why?

When you have the last pick in the draft go from Bench ----> 5th in MVP under 1 Coach. You can be sure Brad is going to get some of the credit, as he should.

Would be silly to discredit Brad in anyway, he hasn't done anything but help IT get to where he is.

I'm not denying it, it's true Brad has helped a lot.  All I'm saying is IT is a true talent and not just a one hit wonder in a single coaches system.   The only reason I say anything is because I've seen all these comments saying "Kyrie is gonna explode under Stevens, look what he did with Evan Turner and he turned a bench player into an MVP candidate." 

Danny and Brad didn't average 29 points for the season or score 53 points in a conference final last year.  They didn't drop 52 with 9 threes vs Miami.  I know they put him is good spot and gave him the ball but I'm pointing out that IT deserves what he's earned too. That's why I'm seeemingly denying it.  IT deserves credit for his work, and I'm just trying to sway it a little more in his direction, that's all.  IT even put up good numbers with 52% eFG% in his rookie/soph year.  The real talent has always been there.