How good our young guys actually are?

[Somebody]

Recently I got into a discussion with Lakers fans, and after some pleasantries we got into a debate about the young cores both teams have. I found is pretty surprising that they think Ingram has star potential but think Jaylen is a bust, and say that he "sputted" with great players around him to give him better spacing while Ingram showed "flashes" with a **** team. I thought a bit about this and I just wanted to ask you guys are our young guys as good as we really think.

[moiso]

Recently I got into a discussion with Lakers fans, and after some pleasantries we got into a debate about the young cores both teams have. I found is pretty surprising that they think Ingram has star potential but think Jaylen is a bust, and say that he "sputted" with great players around him to give him better spacing while Ingram showed "flashes" with a **** team. I thought a bit about this and I just wanted to ask you guys are our young guys as good as we really think.

I think Tatum is the only young guy who is almost guaranteed to be an allstar someday.  I think he will be really good.  I don't think anyone has any clue how good Brown can be.  He has the body, athleticism, and work ethic but so far he doesn't have any skills that would indicate he can be an allstar.  Smart and Rozier are rotation players but not allstars.

I think their is fair chance that Ingram will continue to develop and may someday be an allstar.  Ball could be great.  He has weaknesses but his IQ is off the charts and I think he will be excellent eventually, though it's no guarantee.  I'm not very impressed with Randall.  Nance is OK.

It's pretty close between the two teams.  One guy blossoming into a superstar would entirely swing the verdict to that team.  We may have the Lakers pick next year and if we still had the Nets pick I would prematurely count that in the Celtics favor.  But right now it looks pretty even.

[Celtics4ever]

Recently I got into a discussion with Lakers fans,

Change Lakers to delusional and you might be correct.

[PAOBoston]

To me Lakers are like the Cs on the sense that they have 2 guys our of their young guys that might be legit players (Ingram/Ball vs Brown/Tatum). I think all those guys have talent to make it. The Cs players have a good situation/organization to be able to grow and improve so I believe they have a better chance to make it.

For the Lakers guys, I'm not sure they'll even be there after next summer because I think Magic has a plan to bring relevance back to that franchise (aka LeBron and PG). That being said, I do think those guys can become all stars. They just need the right structure around them.

[Somebody]

Recently I got into a discussion with Lakers fans,

Change Lakers to delusional and you might be correct.

You know I want to...but I'm here for friendly duscussions lol.

[Moranis]

I disagree with the Lakers' fans reasoning, however I do think Ingram has a higher ceiling than Brown, but Ingram is much rawer and much less likely to reach his ceiling. So I'd call that a wash.  I also think Ball has a higher ceiling than Tatum, and I think Ball's floor is lower as well, so I'd favor the Lakers on that one.  Guys like Smart and Randle are nothing more than role players, so they don't really matter.  Boston has better future picks, but I'm not counting future picks in this discussion so I'd favor the Lakers young guys.  That said Hayward, Horford, and Irving are in Boston and the Lakers at the moment have Lopez and Deng. 

[Somebody]

I disagree with the Lakers' fans reasoning, however I do think Ingram has a higher ceiling than Brown, but Ingram is much rawer and much less likely to reach his ceiling. So I'd call that a wash.  I also think Ball has a higher ceiling than Tatum, and I think Ball's floor is lower as well, so I'd favor the Lakers on that one.  Guys like Smart and Randle are nothing more than role players, so they don't really matter.  Boston has better future picks, but I'm not counting future picks in this discussion so I'd favor the Lakers young guys.  That said Hayward, Horford, and Irving are in Boston and the Lakers at the moment have Lopez and Deng.

Irving should count as a young guy tbh, 25 years old.

[jpotter33]

I disagree with the Lakers' fans reasoning, however I do think Ingram has a higher ceiling than Brown, but Ingram is much rawer and much less likely to reach his ceiling. So I'd call that a wash.  I also think Ball has a higher ceiling than Tatum, and I think Ball's floor is lower as well, so I'd favor the Lakers on that one. Guys like Smart and Randle are nothing more than role players, so they don't really matter.  Boston has better future picks, but I'm not counting future picks in this discussion so I'd favor the Lakers young guys.  That said Hayward, Horford, and Irving are in Boston and the Lakers at the moment have Lopez and Deng.

I think this is pretty much right, though I'm not a fan of Ball. I can see the appeal he has to people, but I'm just not buying into it. I think he's Rajon Rondo 2.0 without the defense and a bit better shooting.

I've never got the "Brown is a bust" argument from people outside of Boston. He progressed about as well as could be expected given his playing time and role on the first seed in the East.

[Curley]

I think Brown has the highest upside/lowest floor.  Best athlete and I like the development of his shot.  Will he ever get the handles/cut down on bad turnovers?  I hope so but I could see why Laker fans are not high on him. 

Ingram is weak, and I think this will continue to be a problem for him.  I do think he has a good feel for the game though and like him/not love him as a prospect.  Like Laker fans don't think much of Brown so far Ingram has done little to impress.

Tatum and Ball is your typical Celtic/Laker discussion.  Balls vision and ability to run a team could be special with the right teammates.  While Tatum might be the classic Celtic who just goes to work every night and just gets the job done.

Pretty much a toss up right now but I am happy to go to battle with our guys!

[Moranis]

I disagree with the Lakers' fans reasoning, however I do think Ingram has a higher ceiling than Brown, but Ingram is much rawer and much less likely to reach his ceiling. So I'd call that a wash.  I also think Ball has a higher ceiling than Tatum, and I think Ball's floor is lower as well, so I'd favor the Lakers on that one.  Guys like Smart and Randle are nothing more than role players, so they don't really matter.  Boston has better future picks, but I'm not counting future picks in this discussion so I'd favor the Lakers young guys.  That said Hayward, Horford, and Irving are in Boston and the Lakers at the moment have Lopez and Deng.

Irving should count as a young guy tbh, 25 years old.

He is a 4 time all star who isn't on a rookie contract and hasn't been for years.  He doesn't count in this type of thing generally speaking.

[timpiker]

I dunno - I seldom watch irrelevant teams.

[gouki88]

These people you're talking to are crazy. I caught quite a few Lakers games (maybe a dozen or so) and was very unimpressed by Ingram. Pre-draft I had wanted Boston to be able to pick him up somehow, but after last season I am very happy to say I was wrong on that one.

His shooting was absolutely shocking from every area, and he was touted as the most likely to be an elite scorer of the Simmons/Ingram/Brown trio. Barring a ridiculous growth from him, I don't think he'll ever be more than a good (at best) starting forward.

Ball is a guy who I think is highly overrated, and as JPotter said, comes off as a Rondo 2.0 with considerably worse D but better range. Much happier with our picks and our position than the Lakers.

[Sophomore]

I disagree with the Lakers' fans reasoning, however I do think Ingram has a higher ceiling than Brown, but Ingram is much rawer and much less likely to reach his ceiling. So I'd call that a wash.  I also think Ball has a higher ceiling than Tatum, and I think Ball's floor is lower as well, so I'd favor the Lakers on that one. 

It would be very surprising if Brown doesn't at least turn into one of the top 3 and D players in the league; that is his floor, IMO. He's already shooting the 3 at about league average, at 20, and his one-on-one defense is already above average. Give him five years in the league to improve his shooting and team D, and given his work ethic it'd be surprising for him not to be well above average in both. He *should* also be able to learn how to attack closeouts with devastating ability, and shows a lot of body control to finish at the rim. The question mark is whether he can find the handles or savvy to unlock that attack mode and develop a few more skills. There are hints of a plus post-up game, with an essentially unblockable turnaround. I'm not sure he'll ever be a P and R ballhandler, but maybe. I think it's reasonable to project him as an all-star, if he develops as he should, but we'll see.

Ball has phenomenal vision, as you say, which gives him a high ceiling. But his shaky handle and lack of wiggle or athleticism moving laterally may hold him back. We will have to see how he does against the plus athletes playing the point these days.

[CelticsElite]

The people who think ingrams ceiling is higher than brown have never seen ingram play. He is terrible

[TheSundanceKid]

The people who think ingrams ceiling is higher than brown have never seen ingram play. He is terrible

I'm of the same opinion. The comparison to Durant is inflating his 'potential'. If Brown were in LAL they'd be comparing him to Kobe in the same way.