In Truth We Vastly Overpaid....

[TheReaLPuba]

...for a "franchise" player who won't even be here in 2 years.

You guys think Kyrie will want to play second fiddle again to Brown or Tatum? (Both will project to be better two way players than Kyrie) and in a league that's geared toward swing-men these two guys will be the face of SOME franchise.

We outbid ourselves for a 2 year rental. No other team was trading anywhere close to this package in terms of short and long term value.

Kyrie demanded a trade and not only that he took a shot at LeBron's character and basketball play.....

Kyrie's value greatly diminished and the Cavs HAD ZERO leverage.

If Ainge would have just waited another 2-3 weeks Kyrie could have been had for next to nothing.

#RealTruth

[Somebody]

TP to the OP for being real with the value we gave up for. However I think we need to a least see how Kyrie does next season as the alpha before calling for Danny's head, it's only fair to a 25 year old star PG. Hope he makes the leap.

[SparzWizard]

Edited.

The guy waived his trade kicker to join the Celtics. He loves Brad Stevens. To say he "won't even be here in 2 years" sounds like a surefire thing, but I say he'll be here for a long period of time, like even 6-7 years.

He is going to be the alpha in this team; Brown/Tatum are still young and developing.

Ainge gave up the BKN 18 pick in knowing that IT4 wasn't going to be healthy. Add in Crowder and Zizic and a second rounder (to shut the Cavs up) seems like a fair package to me. Celtics get arguably a superstar talent in Kyrie Irving in return. IT4 demanding the "BRINKS truck" and that wasn't gonna happen in Boston. Crowder's malcontent social media behavior and position redundancy isn't gonna help Tatum/Brown develop. Brooklyn pick this year compared to other years could probably take a toll as the East became significantly weaker and West became stronger, influencing the NBA's competitive nature. Plus, Brooklyn got a few pieces this summer that look a little better than last year, and they're going to be healthy.

[C3LTSF4N]

...for a "franchise" player who won't even be here in 2 years.

You guys think Kyrie will want to play second fiddle again to Brown or Tatum? (Both will project to be better two way players than Kyrie) and in a league that's geared toward swing-men these two guys will be the face of SOME franchise.

We outbid ourselves for a 2 year rental. No other team was trading anywhere close to this package in terms of short and long term value.

Kyrie demanded a trade and not only that he took a shot at LeBron's character and basketball play.....

Kyrie's value greatly diminished and the Cavs HAD ZERO leverage.

If Ainge would have just waited another 2-3 weeks Kyrie could have been had for next to nothing.

#RealTruth

Man I've been coming here for info on trade rumors and some Celts content over the years but I've all but had it with the relentless negativity with every  single thing we do as a franchise on this forum.  I'm pretty much ready to hang it up.  It's getting a little sickening.

[sdceltsfan]

You do realize that IT very likely has an injury that may never allow for him to return to the same level of play? A pg his size, with his style of quick, contorting movements to create space for his tiny self to even get a shot off? If he loses that, he is out of the league.

Apparently, at this moment, he is barely running, or not even running at all. Season starts in a couple months...

He chose not to go for surgery right away. So now it completely interferes with a season of bringing in a brand new All-Star FA (Hayward), a blue chip scorer in Tatum.....with guys like Smart and Rozier to play PG alongside? Yeah, that sounds like a really happy, cohesive team....

Kyrie is going to be making 10 million less per season for two more cost-controlled seasons, over what IT will ask for, in addition to more years, and also being a few years older. Comparing how much they scored for their respective teams is not exactly the best way of going about it.

When Kyrie was the best player for Cleveland, that team was garbage. He gets to play with an elite scoring wing in Hayward, a solid, all-around big man in horford, TWO blue-chip young wings in Brown/Tatum, and two defensive minded guards in Smart and Rozier. That is on top of making 4 all-star teams since then, hitting game winning shots in an NBA finals, and experiencing both winning and losing in the finals. How many other players on our roster can say that? How many players did we trade away have that on their resume?

A year ago, this trade would be LAUGHED at by Cleveland. Yet again, Ainge sees the buy-low opportunity on a star-quality player in an exhausted environment, and he is offering up pieces the team can afford to lose, to consolidate the talent in the top of the rotation. We didn't get KG when he was 25, or Ray Allen. So please don't throw the "we gave up way less for those guys..." line as a rebuttal.

This is a trade opportunity, that comes once every few years, for one team in the league.

Am I p---ed about sending the Brooklyn pick? Absolutely! Does it suck to lose some of our favorite players? Hell yes! Stings a lot! But we are getting a player who is top 15-20 at age 25. I don't exactly see him dropping off the face of the earth, or even dropping down on his current pecking order in the best players of the league over the next five years. If anything, he has more opportunity to rise, as he has every opportunity to be the alpha, number one option on a very good team.

[moiso]

...for a "franchise" player who won't even be here in 2 years.

You guys think Kyrie will want to play second fiddle again to Brown or Tatum? (Both will project to be better two way players than Kyrie) and in a league that's geared toward swing-men these two guys will be the face of SOME franchise.

We outbid ourselves for a 2 year rental. No other team was trading anywhere close to this package in terms of short and long term value.

Kyrie demanded a trade and not only that he took a shot at LeBron's character and basketball play.....

Kyrie's value greatly diminished and the Cavs HAD ZERO leverage.

If Ainge would have just waited another 2-3 weeks Kyrie could have been had for next to nothing.

#RealTruth

Irving had to play second fiddle to Lebron- a player who is in the conversation for the greatest player ever to play the game.  That was obvious and that's how it should have been.  But you are saying he will be playing second fiddle to Jalen Brown?  That's ridiculous.  It's like saying a 25ppg scorer would  be playing second fiddle to Tony Allen.

[Surferdad]

You guys think Kyrie will want to play second fiddle again to Brown or Tatum? (Both will project to be better two way players than Kyrie) and in a league that's geared toward swing-men these two guys will be the face of SOME franchise.
...

Um, no.  Kyrie is more likely to always be better than either of these guys.  Brown will be midlevel NBA player who maybe makes one all-star game.  Tatum is completely unproven.

[Green-18]

...for a "franchise" player who won't even be here in 2 years.

You guys think Kyrie will want to play second fiddle again to Brown or Tatum? (Both will project to be better two way players than Kyrie) and in a league that's geared toward swing-men these two guys will be the face of SOME franchise.

We outbid ourselves for a 2 year rental. No other team was trading anywhere close to this package in terms of short and long term value.

Kyrie demanded a trade and not only that he took a shot at LeBron's character and basketball play.....

Kyrie's value greatly diminished and the Cavs HAD ZERO leverage.

If Ainge would have just waited another 2-3 weeks Kyrie could have been had for next to nothing.

#RealTruth

I think many people are highly overstating Kyrie's desire to be an "alpha" and what that actually means.  Let's wait to hear what Kyrie actually says before assuming that he needs to be the single dominant figure of a franchise.  Like most rumors the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.  Most elite players carry the "alpha" persona that everyone keeps mentioning.  Personally I think Kyrie was sick of the double standards in Cleveland and the fact that LeBron dictated everything.  In Boston everyone will be treated the same way and there wont be any double standards.  Kyrie can focus on expanding his game and winning basketball games.  The accolades and awards will come with winning.  What reason do we have to assume that Kyrie wont buy in to the team concept?  It will do nothing but benefit him in the long run.  If Jaylen and/or Tatum become stars then Kyrie will be part of a new big three/four.  If we end up becoming a perennial title contender then people will always remember the summer of Hayward and Irving.   

Based on everything we have heard, LeBron has dictated coaching moves/schemes, personnel decision, and team flight rules.  The King also complained about lack of talent in the middle of last season.  There is always a media circus surrounding everything LeBron does.  Despite all of the BS let's not forget that Kyrie continued to put up monster playoff games.  Not bad for a malcontent who is obsessed with being an "alpha".

[Celtics4ever]

Most guys have mysteriously got better under CBS,  IT and Crowder did.   Evan Turner did.  Amir did not but he was getting long in the tooth and Sully did not because he sabotaged his health and body with his addiction to food.  I think Kyrie will be in the former crowd.   I think CBS will set him loose.   He is a great talent and I think CBS will harness that and enhance it.

You guys think Kyrie will want to play second fiddle again to Brown or Tatum?

 

He won't have to, he is better than them.   He is not coming here to handle their luggage.   He is an all star.  I know it was not intentional of you but this is one of the funniest things I have ever read on the blog.   You actually think Tatum and Brown are at present are better than Irving.   Better go back and edit that one, you will never live that down.

Kyrie demanded a trade and not only that he took a shot at LeBron's character and basketball play.....

Since,  I am not a ClosetCavsFan. I do not mind this at all.   I dislike LeBron don't care for his character, he is not my favorite player, nor I am a fan for him.  Even his supporters have to admit that LeBron has a big ego.   How can you make this comment and defend LeBron who got coaches fired at a whim?  To me that is a lot worse.

If Ainge would have just waited another 2-3 weeks Kyrie could have been had for next to no

I doubt it because the Bucks and had made an offer.  But your fan grieved scintillating analysis does not account for that.

Irving had to play second fiddle to Lebron- a player who is in the conversation for the greatest player ever to play the game

One could stand to reason that he could do more as the primary option, too.   He had to alter his game to suit LeBron.

[PAOBoston]

Maybe revisit this thread next summer after seeing how IT fares and where the pick lands.

Irving was the best player in the deal and the Cs got him. It stinks to lose IT and the pick but the reality is based off Ainge's track record with trades, I think we'll be okay.

There's a real possibility that IT misses half the season.  I wonder what people's reaction would be if Ainge had stood pat and the news of IT missing significant time comes out at the start of the season. They would be furious. It's apparent the IT era was coming to an end in Boston. The C's weren't going to pay him.

As for the pick, it's currently an unknown. It's going to be a lottery pick but we don't know if it's high lottery or lower lottery. Big difference in value between top 5 and bottom 5.

[Vermont Green]

I think the debate will rage on whether we overpaid or not.  I have posted my theory earlier that Danny approached this like buying a house.  You don't want to lose a house to a better offer if you love the house.  Danny was not bargain shopping here.  He wanted to make sure got this one.

But what I think is even more interesting than the endless debate about whether or not we overpaid or won the trade, is what exactly does it mean to be the "Alpha".  That is getting thrown around a lot.  He has never been the Alpha, wants to be the Alpha, won't be able to handle the Alpha....

I don't think there is really such a thing in every case.  LeBron carries the Alpha role but what about Steph Curry or Durant.  They can be really good players but they aren't coming off as some Alpha role.  Chris Paul, is he an Alpha?  What happens now that he is playing with Harden?  Now is that two Alphas?  Are two Alphas better than one?

Time will tell how good Irving is on the Celtics in whatever role Stevens creates for him.  Plus no one knows where he will sign in two years.  He could also blow out his knee in the shower tomorrow.  But one thing I am not worrying about is whether he is going to be an Alpha and whether or not Brown or Tatum might someday be even more Alpha than him.

[iadera]

Edited. No personal attacks.

[timpiker]

This thread is just plain wrong - did we overpay?  Yes, a little.  "Vastly"?  [Edited. No swearing.]  Do u ever watch Kyrie Irving play?  My God man, he's great!

[KGBirdBias]

It's shocking to me that people are this broken up about IT and Crowder being traded...it's comical. LOL

They were guys that played hard but they weren't championship level players. They were good as a group but they could only go so far. Like Ainge said he was tired of watching scrappy overachievers, now we have bonafide talent.

[Spilling Green Dye]

When the news first broke of the deal I felt like we overpaid, but not vastly overpaid.

Now?  I think it's a pretty fair deal.  Trading for upper echelon talent in this league is like climbing an ever steeper mountain... you spend more and more each time you want to get higher. 

Is Kyrie the type of player that would take a non-contender to contender?  No.  But he doesn't have to be.  I honestly think Lebron is the only player in the league who is capable of this, and that's in large part because of his combination to drive with his ability to pass and physical dominance. 

The Celtics of 2016-2017 had some major flaws:  Rebounding, rim protection, wing scoring, and teams exposing Isiah's defense on the pick and roll / iso plays.  You could also add in that smart teams with defensive length could really bother Isaiah's offense, which is what happens most post-seasons. 

This off season we've gotten better at rebounding and wing scoring, a bit better at rim protection, and thanks to the Kyrie trade we now have an elite scorer who won't be bothered by length.  Kyrie doesn't totally address the defensive switch problem, but if he fails in this area then it'll be because of effort/skill (fixable) and not b/c of lack of height (not fixable).