So which team has more incentive to get the deal done?

[colincb]

I know that many people will disagree with that, but IMO the potential locker room problems are vastly exaggerated. Professional players know they might be traded any time. It would be silly of them to hold a grudge against the team.

TP.

I agree. This whole concept of "betrayal" is mostly bull crap. There are a handful who have caused problems in situations like this but most just know it's part of the business, collect their millions and move on.

Will Thomas help us recruit another FA? No. But it's unlikely he's going to go into the locker room, pout and cause a scene. If he does that he destroys his reputation with both management and other players.

Why?

I think that's quite obvious but I'll play along.

While I expect a guy like IT to put his all on the court - that's his personality and he knows he owes it to his teammates - I don't expect him to go out of his way for the organization. After all, they just attempted to trade him in a contract year when he's looking to make some serious bank. He simply feel that it's hypocritical for him to act as the face of the organization and, most likely, the Celtics will feel the same way.

Now I'm fine with that. Get him back, put him on the court when he's able and ride him for all he's worth. Let him test his value in the FA and if some other team wants to "bank up the Brinks truck", let him go. If his value is more reasonable, resign him. With (likely) two top picks next year I'm sure we can find a suitable replacement IF Smart/Rozier can't step up.

I don't see how IT bringing another FA here is relevant given our cap situation and his upcoming free agency.

As to who needs the deal more? Probably the Cavs. They're in a bind with LBJ going into free agency after the season if he wants, a major piece in Irving wanting out, and an awful cap situation. The Cavs have a lot less flexibility than the Celtics do if this deal falls apart. There's not a better deal out there for them that combines a team Irving would go to and stay with, gets the Cavs assets that can help them now, and gets the Cavs future assets. This was the best deal they could have done.

[KGBirdBias]

The Cavs aren't slick, they want the extra pick so they can then trade the pick and Shumpert for Bledsoe.

BTW, the Cavs need to remember who it was that enabled them to sign Bron from Miami? It was Ainge because he wanted to stick it to Riley and took Zeller off their hands to create cap room.

[smokeablount]

The answer is clearly Boston, and Cleveland knows it. Arguably, the most important position is PG. Danny just passed on two in the draft because it was assumed that PG was a position of strength with Isaiah. Then all of a sudden, a top ten player in the league becomes available in Irving. The Celtics have the assets and agree on a deal. Assuming the deal is voided, the Celtics now have a disgruntled PG, who feels betrayed. Why would Isaiah risk further injury for a team that doesn't want him? If his main goal is to get paid, then he will elect to have the surgery, most likely miss this season, so that he can be fully healed for next off season. He could hold private workouts for interested teams that are willing to sign him as a free agent. Lets not forget that the Celtics will not have enough cap room next off season to sign any meaningful PG free agent.

This. And that's why even though I overall believe in the adage "don't negotiate with terrorists," I would throw in the Celtics late 1st round pick either this year or next to seal the deal and make this go away.

[Eja117]

The Cavs have more incentive to see the Celts complete the overpay.

[kozlodoev]

The Cavs have more incentive to see the Celts complete the overpay.

Right. I'll take my chances with the draft then. The Cavs can go ahead and turn Irving into Bledsoe or Middleton/Brogdon.

[johnnygreen]

The answer is clearly Boston, and Cleveland knows it. Arguably, the most important position is PG. Danny just passed on two in the draft because it was assumed that PG was a position of strength with Isaiah. Then all of a sudden, a top ten player in the league becomes available in Irving. The Celtics have the assets and agree on a deal. Assuming the deal is voided, the Celtics now have a disgruntled PG, who feels betrayed. Why would Isaiah risk further injury for a team that doesn't want him? If his main goal is to get paid, then he will elect to have the surgery, most likely miss this season, so that he can be fully healed for next off season. He could hold private workouts for interested teams that are willing to sign him as a free agent. Lets not forget that the Celtics will not have enough cap room next off season to sign any meaningful PG free agent.

Because he's in a contract year and there are now a ton of questions about his health, in addition to all the questions that already surrounded his future. If the trade were to be cancelled and Thomas didn't play out of his mind for Boston, he'd be losing tens of millions of dollars, either from the Celtics or someone else.

What team would ever give him a big contract if he misses the entire year for hip surgery? Especially when a lot are skeptical a healthy IT could get a max deal.

If Isaiah doesn't have the surgery and is hobbled this season, then there is zero chance of a max contract. What team in their right mind, would sign him knowing his hip could be an issue? However, if he does have the surgery now and is fully healthy going into next off season, then the option of a big pay day exist. Basically, if surgery is inevitable on his hip, doesn't it make sense for Isaiah to get paid to sit out on Boston's dime and be fully healthy for his future employer. If there are any questions about his health and to see if there is any drop off after surgery, then he can always just sign a one year deal to prove himself to try for that max deal.

[greece66]

The answer is clearly Boston, and Cleveland knows it. Arguably, the most important position is PG. Danny just passed on two in the draft because it was assumed that PG was a position of strength with Isaiah. Then all of a sudden, a top ten player in the league becomes available in Irving. The Celtics have the assets and agree on a deal. Assuming the deal is voided, the Celtics now have a disgruntled PG, who feels betrayed. Why would Isaiah risk further injury for a team that doesn't want him? If his main goal is to get paid, then he will elect to have the surgery, most likely miss this season, so that he can be fully healed for next off season. He could hold private workouts for interested teams that are willing to sign him as a free agent. Lets not forget that the Celtics will not have enough cap room next off season to sign any meaningful PG free agent.

Punishing your team's FO is a very strange reason to have a surgery.

[celticinorlando]

Boston. No way in the world they want to take back a broken down Thomas looking at surgery and possibly missing the season.

They would have 3 back up PG trying to fill that void. That is not positive. Then there is Crowder who wants to pout and be a malcontent in the way of letting the younger guys play.

The pick back is great if it turns out to be a top 5 pick. But they are in a tough spot at PG. With Thomas back and unable to play Boston is maybe a 4 seed.

Could they look to make another deal for a PG? Sure...but there is nobody out there really worth paying for

[johnnygreen]

The answer is clearly Boston, and Cleveland knows it. Arguably, the most important position is PG. Danny just passed on two in the draft because it was assumed that PG was a position of strength with Isaiah. Then all of a sudden, a top ten player in the league becomes available in Irving. The Celtics have the assets and agree on a deal. Assuming the deal is voided, the Celtics now have a disgruntled PG, who feels betrayed. Why would Isaiah risk further injury for a team that doesn't want him? If his main goal is to get paid, then he will elect to have the surgery, most likely miss this season, so that he can be fully healed for next off season. He could hold private workouts for interested teams that are willing to sign him as a free agent. Lets not forget that the Celtics will not have enough cap room next off season to sign any meaningful PG free agent.

Punishing your team's FO is a very strange reason to have a surgery.

I think he would look at it as setting himself up for a better future. You know, just like the Celtics are trying to trade him for a better future with Irving. Surgery would be a good business move.

[celticinorlando]

The answer is clearly Boston, and Cleveland knows it. Arguably, the most important position is PG. Danny just passed on two in the draft because it was assumed that PG was a position of strength with Isaiah. Then all of a sudden, a top ten player in the league becomes available in Irving. The Celtics have the assets and agree on a deal. Assuming the deal is voided, the Celtics now have a disgruntled PG, who feels betrayed. Why would Isaiah risk further injury for a team that doesn't want him? If his main goal is to get paid, then he will elect to have the surgery, most likely miss this season, so that he can be fully healed for next off season. He could hold private workouts for interested teams that are willing to sign him as a free agent. Lets not forget that the Celtics will not have enough cap room next off season to sign any meaningful PG free agent.

Punishing your team's FO is a very strange reason to have a surgery.

I think he would look at it as setting himself up for a better future. You know, just like the Celtics are trying to trade him for a better future with Irving. Surgery would be a good business move.

Should of had surgery in May. He would be a lot closer to playing than he is now.

[ashanm10]

The Cavs have more incentive to see the Celts complete the overpay.

Right. I'll take my chances with the draft then. The Cavs can go ahead and turn Irving into Bledsoe or Middleton/Brogdon.

same here.

they wanna play, lets play

[Moranis]

Boston.  There is still a good market for Irving, there will be virtually no market for Thomas after this. 

[Vermont Green]

The loser in this is IT.  If it turn out to be true that he is not able to fully play this season, he is the one that loses the most, regardless of the trade.

I think if CLE wanted to void the trade, they would have just voided it already.  Many seem to disagree but I think CLE wants and needs IT to play at a high level for at least most of the season.  If they don't get that out of the deal, another draft pick or swapping in Rozier doesn't really help them this coming season.

If IT can play, getting him back in Boston is not the end of the world.  We were all pretty excited about the team before the trade.  If IT is IT, it will be an exciting team and a good year I fully expect.  If IT limps through the season or worse, that is bad for us if we get him back.  As I said though, if Cleveland really believed that IT was going to limp along or worse (season ending surgery for example), the trade would already be voided.

[JHTruth]

The loser in this is IT.  If it turn out to be true that he is not able to fully play this season, he is the one that loses the most, regardless of the trade.

I think if CLE wanted to void the trade, they would have just voided it already.  Many seem to disagree but I think CLE wants and needs IT to play at a high level for at least most of the season.  If they don't get that out of the deal, another draft pick or swapping in Rozier doesn't really help them this coming season.

If IT can play, getting him back in Boston is not the end of the world.  We were all pretty excited about the team before the trade.  If IT is IT, it will be an exciting team and a good year I fully expect.  If IT limps through the season or worse, that is bad for us if we get him back.  As I said though, if Cleveland really believed that IT was going to limp along or worse (season ending surgery for example), the trade would already be voided.

I think CLE will see if they can get more from Boston and when Boston balks, they will void it.

Interesting articles on the awfulness of the deal from the C's perspective:

https://clutchpoints.com/kyrie-irving-trade-cavs-horrible-blunder-celtics/

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/nba-trade-celtics-cavaliers-kyrie-irving-isaiah-thomas-jae-crowder-danny-ainge-lebron-james/64qsof7uzrdg1keabh0lxofrw

https://sircharlesincharge.com/2017/08/28/nba-trade-rumors-cavs-celtics-holdup-blame/

[celticinorlando]

Let them deal with the Bucks. The crown jewel of the deal is an almost certain top 5 nets pick. The pick they get from the Bucks will be very low because the Bucks are going to be good.

The Suns can give them Bledsoe..but a gimpy Thomas is better than him. They can give them a pick but the are not giving them Jackson who the Cavs really want.