Quantifying how bad Kyrie's defense was last season

[cman88]

Fans would rather see us keep IT4 and Crowder and get embarrassed in the eastern conference finals again...thats the only reason for this rampant negativity and trashing everything to do with the trade. We overachieved last year...danny would rather roll the dice on a 25 year old who averages 25ppg rather than luck that the brooklyn pick is top 3 and that the player drafted can even reach those heights

I mean IT4 was a great defender....right?

If we were alright with danny trading pierce and kg i think well get over trading IT4.

Defense is about effort, i would like to think brad can get irving to play some defense

[Roy H.]

Defense is about effort, i would like to think brad can get irving to play some defense

So his terrible defense in the Finals in 2016 was because he wasn't putting in sufficient effort?

[Granath]

Roy is acting like it's insane that anyone would like this trade and is talking down to other posters.
 He's giving everyone a hard time that posts something positive about the trade.  Roy openly hates Kyrie and is bashing anyone with a different opinion.

Great moderator we have here.  I'm scared to post something positive.

Give me a break. Roy hasn't bashed anyone except Irving. He's posted many facts and some opinions. Most of the responses have either hand-waived these facts away or have been met with quite optimistic projections.

Roy's not given anyone ANY reason to fear posting a different viewpoint. I don't always agree with Roy either but you shouldn't insult his integrity because you happen to be on the Irving bandwagon. Don't be a weenie.

Here's the crux of the point. Irving has been that bad on defense and the incredible gyrations people go through to create excuses for this are both quite entertaining but also a bit perplexing. It's like all of Kyrie's sins went away the minute we traded for him. Except they didn't. If Irving does not progress, we just gave up IT, the best non-rookie contract in the league, Zizic and a top 5 pick in a loaded draft for...wait for it...a slightly younger version of IT.

That's what you call a risky deal. Let's hope that Danny's right on this one.

[GreenEnvy]

Fans would rather see us keep IT4 and Crowder and get embarrassed in the eastern conference finals again...thats the only reason for this rampant negativity and trashing everything to do with the trade. We overachieved last year...danny would rather roll the dice on a 25 year old who averages 25ppg rather than luck that the brooklyn pick is top 3 and that the player drafted can even reach those heights

I mean IT4 was a great defender....right?

If we were alright with danny trading pierce and kg i think well get over trading IT4.

Defense is about effort, i would like to think brad can get irving to play some defense

Is there any shame in being a top-5 team making the conference finals? All while making top picks, allowing them to grow in a winning environment?

I neither hate nor love the trade. There's no point crying over spilt milk. It happened, and it's not going to be undone. I love IT4, and sometimes sports isn't simply about winning and losing. There is a different feeling watching a team full of players you connect with.

IT was our guy. He wore his heart on his sleeve and gave his all to this team and city. We got him for nothing and turned him into a star. The Celtics did that. Jae was our leader. If IT was our heart, Jae was our soul. Bradley was the last of the d regime, the lineage from the Pierce/Garnett era to the new one. I thoroughly enjoyed watching those three play, and now they are gone.

I'm sure Gordon and Kyrie are fine men and are definitely great players. Maybe we will grow to love them like we did the aforementioned players. But it's still a hard pill to swallow for some of us, especially during the offseason before any games are played.

I understand why some fans are giddy over the acquisitions. I understand even more those who aren't.

And regarding the PP/KG trade... that was a move for the team and for those two. Doc bailed and Ainge saw an opportunity to move them to a team that had a chance. If KG didn't waive his NTC, maybe Pierce stays and they bow out gracefully. They knew this would help their careers and the Celtics at the same time. Ainge in no way blindsided them like he did IT.

[playdream]

Some people here needs to realize that KI isn't kawhi on defense and never will be, and stop complaining, KI is one of the best shot maker and killer, and Danny Ainge and Brad Stevens believe in him, that's all

[Granath]

Some people here needs to realize that KI isn't kawhi on defense and never will be, and stop complaining, KI is one of the best shot maker and killer, and Danny Ainge and Brad Stevens believe in him, that's all

Using that logic there isn't a forum. If Danny and Brad believe in him, that's all? That's the end of the discussion? I guess we're not allowed to have our own opinion?

Your example is pretty absurd. KI and Kawhi are opposite ends of the spectrum. Irving can be a great shot maker but history is replete with scorers who aren't much net help when they're allowing everyone else to be one as well. For KI to be worth the price we paid, he has to develop a complete game on both ends of the floor. Being a great scorer isn't enough because we gave up one just to get him.

[The One]

I agree Kyrie was bad defensively last season. 

But I think Isaiah was THE WORST...and with zero chance of getting better.

(FYI...I enjoyed the little guy era.)

"Finally, Irving can also help Boston on defense. Yes, you read that correctly. He is not a very good defender; he only adds value in our defensive Play-Type Profiles when guarding players off screens.
Still, he is a huge improvement over Thomas. Irving cost the Cavaliers a little under 117 points on the less glamorous end last season, according to NBA Math’s defensive points saved. That is bad. But Thomas posted a DPS of minus-176.15—the absolute worst mark in the entire NBA.
Irving is 6’3″. Thomas is 5’9″. A six-inch difference is the same discrepancy in heights between Yao Ming and Kevin Durant; it has a huge impact. Irving will have his hand in guys’ faces when he actually tries on defense. He doesn’t have many instincts on that end of the floor, but he is quick and has been able to average over one steal a game for his career. While he’s still a far below-average defender, he shouldn’t compromise the Celtics’ stands as much as Thomas—and that alone qualifies as an upgrade."

https://nbamath.com/a-definitive-breakdown-of-kyrie-irvings-fit-with-the-boston-celtics/