Irving vs Thomas...playoff numbers (aka what really matters)

[Eddie20]

I've seen the constant comparison of regular season numbers between the two, but no one ever seems to bring up what really matters...the playoffs. Thomas in the regular season is a very efficient scoring machine. However, during the playoffs, when the opposition is better and that opponent can scheme for him, he is relegated to a low efficient high volume shooter.

          Thomas        Irving
GP      25                52
FG%   40.6             46.5
FT%   84.2             87.6
3PT%  30.2            41.5
eFG%  46.5            52.8
PPG     22.6            23.9
TOV     3.1              2.2

[Fafnir]

I think its weird how people focus on the playoffs, a small sample size, to compare players.

Besides IT was awesome this last playoffs. The idea he can't get it done in the postseason is really weird since we just watched him do it.

[More Banners]

Well there is a lot to be seen re: how these players do in different situations. IT should have better efficiency playing against fewer double/triple teams in the playoffs, and for Kyrie, we'll see how Brad uses all these new players since we really have no clue.

But they're really close I think.  We'll see if the big changes lead to the good-to-great jump that makes the difference.

[Eddie20]

I think its weird how people focus on the playoffs, a small sample size, to compare players.

Besides IT was awesome this last playoffs. The idea he can't get it done in the postseason is really weird since we just watched him do it.

So you think 3 seasons of playoff appearances is a small sample size? You really think playing meaningless regular season games vs the Nets at home on a Tuesday night in February is more indicative that the pressures of playoff basketball?

But was he really awesome this post-season? He had some nice games, but he shot 42.5% from the field, 33.3% from 3's, and even his FT% was down to 82%. Most players take a slight dip from their regular season to post-season numbers as the competition stiffens. However, Thomas' numbers regressed significantly. This really speaks to how an opponent can make him less effective offensively and we won't even get into the defense aspect of things where we constantly have to wonder who we're going to hide Isaiah on.

[MetroGlobe]

I think its weird how people focus on the playoffs, a small sample size, to compare players.

Besides IT was awesome this last playoffs. The idea he can't get it done in the postseason is really weird since we just watched him do it.

So you think 3 seasons of playoff appearances is a small sample size? You really think playing meaningless regular season games vs the Nets at home on a Tuesday night in February is more indicative that the pressures of playoff basketball?

But was he really awesome this post-season? He had some nice games, but he shot 42.5% from the field, 33.3% from 3's, and even his FT% was down to 82%. Most players take a slight dip from their regular season to post-season numbers as the competition stiffens. However, Thomas' numbers regressed significantly. This really speaks to how an opponent can make him less effective offensively and we won't even get into the defense aspect of things where we constantly have to wonder who we're going to hide Isaiah on.

This is an entirely accurate assessment.  We remember his 50 point game, and the emotional heroics of playing after his sister died.  But overall he definitely regressed compared to the reg season.  And the same is true for both previous seasons in the playoffs.  There's no denying that Fafnir.

[Androslav]

While the numbers are there, I would note that Kyrie was operating in a more of an off-guard/wing mode next to LBJ who was thier primary facilitator. Just as IT4 was our primary ball handler. Horford did relieve him a bit. But the role differencies between Kyrie and IT4 were apparent.

[Fafnir]

I think its weird how people focus on the playoffs, a small sample size, to compare players.

Besides IT was awesome this last playoffs. The idea he can't get it done in the postseason is really weird since we just watched him do it.

So you think 3 seasons of playoff appearances is a small sample size? You really think playing meaningless regular season games vs the Nets at home on a Tuesday night in February is more indicative that the pressures of playoff basketball?

I think 179 > 25.

Overall players play a bit worse in the postseason in general. The game slows down some and the competition is better. But they don't fundamentally change their performance much.

And yes IT was awesome this postseason. Only during the ECF when his hip flared badly and he had to be pulled in the end did he play poorly overall. (some games better than others of course)

[Eddie20]

I think its weird how people focus on the playoffs, a small sample size, to compare players.

Besides IT was awesome this last playoffs. The idea he can't get it done in the postseason is really weird since we just watched him do it.

So you think 3 seasons of playoff appearances is a small sample size? You really think playing meaningless regular season games vs the Nets at home on a Tuesday night in February is more indicative that the pressures of playoff basketball?

I think 179 > 25.

Overall players play a bit worse in the postseason in general. The game slows down some and the competition is better. But they don't fundamentally change their performance much.

And yes IT was awesome this postseason. Only during the ECF when his hip flared badly and he had to be pulled in the end did he play poorly overall. (some games better than others of course)

You edited my post where I also said-
But was he really awesome this post-season? He had some nice games, but he shot 42.5% from the field, 33.3% from 3's, and even his FT% was down to 82%. Most players take a slight dip from their regular season to post-season numbers as the competition stiffens. However, Thomas' numbers regressed significantly. This really speaks to how an opponent can make him less effective offensively and we won't even get into the defense aspect of things where we constantly have to wonder who we're going to hide Isaiah on.

My point is, yes, Isaiah's performance changes drastically. Not raw numbers, since the overall volume will always be there, but his efficiency is horrible.

[incoherent]

Lets not sugar coat it.

IT got 100% swallowed up by the Cavs.  Only after a couple bad games did the "Hip injury" report come out.

Kyrie is flat out a better player in the postseason and that truly is all that matters for us.

PEople trying to spin or deny are just sad about the nets pick and are trying to justify IT>Kyrie

[Fafnir]

It is not editing a post to quote a portion of it.

I disagree with your overall point of view. I don't really value the postseason a great deal more than the regular season as far as evaluating players.

[GreenEnvy]

Lets not sugar coat it.

IT got 100% swallowed up by the Cavs.  Only after a couple bad games did the "Hip injury" report come out.

Kyrie is flat out a better player in the postseason and that truly is all that matters for us.

PEople trying to spin or deny are just sad about the nets pick and are trying to justify IT>Kyrie

That's completely false. At the end of the series with the Wiz there were questions about an injury.

I wonder what Kyrie's +/- looks like in the playoffs with LeBron on the court vs. him off.

People don't realize what it's like to play with LeBron, Kyrie included.

[Fafnir]

I wonder what Kyrie's +/- looks like in the playoffs with LeBron on the court vs. him off.

IIRC his +/- without LBJ even with other starters is really bad both offensively and defensively. Both for the playoffs and the regular season.

[Eddie20]

It is not editing a post to quote a portion of it.

It's is an issue when you state "And yes IT was awesome this postseason", but then omit the portion of where I supply Thomas' post-season numbers, which directly refutes that statement.

[Fafnir]

Everyone gets to construct their own posts. I don't think quoting the portion I most wanted to respond to was deceptive or intellectually dishonest. I personally perfer to cut down quote boxes to the essential part I want to address.

You just did the same to mine after all, glad we agree directly quoting someone is not editing.

His performance clearly dipped relative to his regular season, but his offensive rating and TS% were still good especially if you don't count the ECF games where his hip clearly wasn't right. Those games still count, but as far as how he played this postseason I personally do not count them as a blackmark.

I still think IT was awesome this postseason, and I do no think you're going to argue me off that point.

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Everyone gets to construct their own posts. I don't think quoting the portion I most wanted to respond to was deceptive or intellectually dishonest. I personally perfer to cut down quote boxes to the essential part I want to address.

You just did the same to mine after all, glad we agree directly quoting someone is not editing.

His performance clearly dipped relative to his regular season, but his offensive rating and TS% were still good especially if you don't count the ECF games where his hip clearly wasn't right. Those games still count, but as far as how he played this postseason I personally do not count them as a blackmark.

I still think IT was awesome this postseason, and I do no think you're going to argue me off that point.

Yes. And the team was awesome. This year will be awesomer.

For KI with and without LJ on the court, I put that squarely on "coach" Lue.