Author Topic: The next Celtics Super Star......."Marcus Smart"  (Read 4581 times)

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The next Celtics Super Star......."Marcus Smart"
« on: July 14, 2017, 06:03:59 AM »

Offline celtics2030

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The great Adam Miller writes this, and part of his basis is that he is comparable to Jimmy Butler.

Also that Smart is evaluated at 128.8 million over 5 years.

I guess he is worth 25 million a year.


Re: The next Celtics Super Star......."Marcus Smart"
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2017, 06:43:32 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Also that Smart is evaluated at 128.8 million over 5 years.

I guess he is worth 25 million a year.

Is it hard to start drinking this early in the morning?

Re: The next Celtics Super Star......."Marcus Smart"
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2017, 07:01:01 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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Looks like someone misplaced a decimal point.

Re: The next Celtics Super Star......."Marcus Smart"
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2017, 07:09:15 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Seems high. But he'll probably get a contract offer in the neighborhood of $15, 4 yrs (so $60ish overall).
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: The next Celtics Super Star......."Marcus Smart"
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2017, 07:21:53 AM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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Who is Adam Miller?

Re: The next Celtics Super Star......."Marcus Smart"
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2017, 07:43:15 AM »

Offline saltlover

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« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 08:57:12 AM by saltlover »

Re: The next Celtics Super Star......."Marcus Smart"
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2017, 08:03:58 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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Who is Adam Miller?

Someone who looked up Smart's projection on 538.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/marcus-smart/p

Hey, saltlover, you may want to remove the "p" from the end of that link - it throws up a 404 error when it's included
I'm bitter.

Re: The next Celtics Super Star......."Marcus Smart"
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2017, 08:09:48 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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Who is Adam Miller?

Someone who looked up Smart's projection on 538.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/marcus-smart/p

Wow, he really did just take the projection from there.  I don't know how anyone can take it seriously, though - it says AB will be worth $19.3 million over the next 5 years, but he's more likely to get $20 million a year than 5/20
I'm bitter.

Re: The next Celtics Super Star......."Marcus Smart"
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2017, 08:13:09 AM »

Offline celtics2030

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Rondo............."Scrub"

You gotta to be kidding me with this.

Im telling 2017, you don't need analysts or tv personalities anything. They are not smarter than the average fan, they feed into their own BS.


Re: The next Celtics Super Star......."Marcus Smart"
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2017, 08:21:41 AM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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The issue with Smart's CARMELO projection, which has not been emphasized enough, is the variance.

That's captured by the gray shaded "confidence interval" region on the projection.

Take a look at Smart's - it's huge:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/marcus-smart/

Smart's confidence interval goes from 0 to 10 WAR. For those counting at home, that's the difference between Nik Stauskas and Kevin Durant.

Now, if you take other players of similar vintage, their ranges are smaller and in many cases much, much smaller

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/dante-exum/

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/kelly-olynyk/

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/jabari-parker/

There are even much more recent draftees with less uncertainty according to these projections:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/brandon-ingram/

Why the difference? I'm not sure, but I would guess that the most of the range for Smart is a function of possible variation in his future offensive capabilities, and in particular whether he becomes a plus 3 pt shooter or remains atrocious.

tl;dr: This tells us nothing we don't know from about 300 different "Will Marcus improve his shooting?" threads.

Re: The next Celtics Super Star......."Marcus Smart"
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2017, 08:21:57 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Who is Adam Miller?

Someone who looked up Smart's projection on 538.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/marcus-smart/p

Hey, saltlover, you may want to remove the "p" from the end of that link - it throws up a 404 error when it's included

Don't know how that p got there, but fixed.

Re: The next Celtics Super Star......."Marcus Smart"
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2017, 08:24:35 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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Wow, Dragan Bender owes his team $3.3 million after the season he just had  ;D

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/dragan-bender/

Edit: well, at least that's better than the $15.4 million Brandon ingram owes the Lakers

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/brandon-ingram/
I'm bitter.

Re: The next Celtics Super Star......."Marcus Smart"
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2017, 08:29:48 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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Who is Adam Miller?

Someone who looked up Smart's projection on 538.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/marcus-smart/p

Hey, saltlover, you may want to remove the "p" from the end of that link - it throws up a 404 error when it's included

Don't know how that p got there, but fixed.

Still broken, you forgot to remove it from the actual link   :P

Although I think by now there are more than enough CARMELO links to go around
I'm bitter.

Re: The next Celtics Super Star......."Marcus Smart"
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2017, 08:48:08 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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tl;dr: This tells us nothing we don't know from about 300 different "Will Marcus improve his shooting?" threads.

Yes. TP.

Re: The next Celtics Super Star......."Marcus Smart"
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2017, 08:56:34 AM »

Offline saltlover

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The issue with Smart's CARMELO projection, which has not been emphasized enough, is the variance.

That's capture by the gray shaded "confidence interval" region on the projection.

Take a look at Smart's - it's huge:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/marcus-smart/

Smart's confidence interval goes from 0 to 10 WAR. For those counting at home, that's the difference between Nik Stauskas and Kevin Durant.

Now, if you take other players of similar vintage, their ranges are smaller and in many cases much, much smaller

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/dante-exum/

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/kelly-olynyk/

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/jabari-parker/

There are even much more recent draftees with less uncertainty according to these projections:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/brandon-ingram/

Why the difference? I'm not sure, but I would guess that the most of the range for Smart is a function of possible variation in his future offensive capabilities, and in particular whether he becomes a plus 3 pt shooter or remains atrocious.

tl;dr: This tells us nothing we don't know.

When people were into CARMELO last year I tried to caution them about variance.  That said, while you can certainly find players with less variance, generally the higher the mid-point (which is essentially the numerical value they report) the greater the variance.  This is largely due to the fact that CARMELO uses modeling based on past performance from "similar" players.  The better the player, the fewer comparable players from the past, so the wider the error bars.

Smart is an interesting case -- he has a lot of comparable players up until this point in his career (with similarity scores near and above 50), but their career paths after this year are widely divergent.  You've got a couple of guys who peak around All-NBA status (Gus Williams and Mike Conley), a few players with a few years of sustained production around his current level, and a bunch of players for whom this is as good as it gets, and it's time to sell now.  (The model uses more than the top 10 comparables shown, of course, but weights each subsequent player less based on similarity.)

Some of it certainly has to do with shooting, but most of Smart's top comparablea were not known for shooting, and were much more known for a combination of defense and traditional point guard skills. If Smart can continue to develop his offensive playmaking, without including his shooting, while maintaining his defense, he has a chance to reach the higher portion of those error bars.  If he adds shooting, he's the top of those bars.  On the other hand, if his physical defense takes a toll on him, he's going to be on the lower end.

A lot of people the past couple years have compared him to Dennis Johnson, and if he pretty much just stays at his current level for a decade, that looks like a really good comp.