Author Topic: So we have 2 stars and a very good player in Horford, what is left?  (Read 2918 times)

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Offline jade88

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It feels so weird to grab another star to go with Thomas and Horford and we're still talking about how this is a team built for the future. Thomas/Hayward/Morris/Crowder/Horford are all in their prime years, Smart is in year 4. What is the wait here?

I get that we still need another piece, probably a big one tbh, but don't we have the assets? Now more than ever I'm wondering how the youth timeline fits in with the stars we have now. Are Tatum and Brown worth more than landing that last piece? If Marc Gasol, or someone we covet becomes available are we still going to hold out in fear of sacrificing the future?

What would Morey do with what we have here? He's another top 5 GM, so I think it's fair to ask.

Re: So we have 2 stars and a very good player in Horford, what is left?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2017, 10:03:33 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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develop the young ones and hope you get a couple of stars from that corp.

Re: So we have 2 stars and a very good player in Horford, what is left?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2017, 10:05:05 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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trade IT

sign Davis to five year max

Re: So we have 2 stars and a very good player in Horford, what is left?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2017, 10:30:33 PM »

Offline Granath

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If Marc Gasol, or someone we covet becomes available are we still going to hold out in fear of sacrificing the future?

What would Morey do with what we have here? He's another top 5 GM, so I think it's fair to ask.

We are going to hold out because Marc Gasol doesn't put this team over the edge.

I don't understand the confusion and hand-wringing by some people here. This isn't hard to figure out. There is NO move - none - that "puts this team over the edge". That's because there's a history-making team that is incredibly loaded out in California. There's no deal, no move that anyone can make that guarantees them a championship because there's an exceptionally high chance you'll run into that juggernaut. And then there's a great Cleveland team to get by in our own conference.

It's really simple math. Let's say you put your chips all in and create a team that can beat Lebron 3 out of 4 and hold its own against GSW (say 2 out of 5). Odds are that team would make 2 of the next 3 finals (.75 * .75 * .75 gives a 42% chance of making all 3 finals). Then the binomial probability of winning at least one is only 48%. And that's if you can create odds even that good which is unlikely in itself. 3 years from now, Horford's contract is done and the window closes unless we can sign another top FA.

People think that's a reasonable approach?

Instead Danny has created a contender - and yes, we are a contender - that is prepared to jump if anything goes awry with GSW (and to a lesser extent Cleveland). Say Curry goes down with an ACL (God forbid, just using this as an example). I bet Danny cashes in his chips before the trade deadline because the odds just went up dramatically. But unless that right moment comes along, he's created a team that's going to be right up there. We may sneak into a final or two with long odds against us to win. San Antonio won multiple championships by not having super teams but always having one prepared to win it all. The Cs are taking the same approach.

At the same time, we're reloading. Tatum and Brown are two major pieces. Then there's two other (almost certain) top 10 picks. That's an enormous influx of top talent that can develop and contribute as they mature. If just one of those guys breaks out in the next three years then you have a "Big 4" and you can compete LONG TERM with anyone without the window closing unnecessarily soon.

It's not that hard to figure out, folks.

And I don't give a rat's butt what Morey does. Let me know when he wins a title.

Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: So we have 2 stars and a very good player in Horford, what is left?
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2017, 10:34:41 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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Marc Gasol gets us nowhere. Makes us a little more balanced, but not good enough to win a title, and he's on the downside in any case.

Smart organizations in any sport almost never give up great young assets.

Re: So we have 2 stars and a very good player in Horford, what is left?
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2017, 10:40:53 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Ball Handlers:   IT/Smart/Rozier   B+/A-      When IT takes over, the Celtics are very good

Wings: Hayward/Brown/Tatum/Crowder/Morris   A-       Great depth and very good potential

Bigs: Horford/Zizic/Yabu        B+       Horford is a good NBA player. Who knows about the others


What is left depends on what the goal is.

Championship team: A top 5 player (not likely to happen)
Top 5 team: I think they're there, but some would argue another top 30 player.
Top 10 team: They're already there.
The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing.

Re: So we have 2 stars and a very good player in Horford, what is left?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2017, 10:44:37 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Adam Kauffman
Regarding #Celtics even possibly targeting Nikola Vučević: 26yo 7-footer, 14.6 PPG, 10.4 RPG last yr. Physical, fills need down low. #Magic

^For what it's worth lol. I'd like Vucevic...but he doesn't play much defense. Although he'll help with rebounding and scoring down low.


#FireJoe
#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown) 2022 - 2025
I am the Master of Panic.

Re: So we have 2 stars and a very good player in Horford, what is left?
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2017, 10:49:39 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Ball Handlers:   IT/Smart/Rozier   B+/A-      When IT takes over, the Celtics are very good

Wings: Hayward/Brown/Tatum/Crowder/Morris   A-       Great depth and very good potential

Bigs: Horford/Zizic/Yabu        B+       Horford is a good NBA player. Who knows about the others


What is left depends on what the goal is.

Championship team: A top 5 player (not likely to happen)
Top 5 team: Another top 30 player.
Top 10 team: They're already there.


Considering we were inarguably a top-5 team last year, you are insinuating either we got worse, or a number of teams have gotten better.

We lost a very good player in Bradley, and a decent one in KO. We added an all-star in Hayward, another potential go-to scorer in Tatum, and a versatile, tough Morris.

Other teams may have improved, but so did we. I think we were the 4th-best team last season, and will be even better this one. So, who leapfrogged us? Houston? There's only one ball. Minnesota? Nope. OKC? Lol.
CELTICS 2024

Re: So we have 2 stars and a very good player in Horford, what is left?
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2017, 10:51:31 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Maybe another Big?

Other than that staying HEALTHY.

If we managed to get out of the East I believe GSW will have their hands full with us.

It's early but I haven't been this excited about BOS since 2007-08 AND 2010-11 (Year of Shaq).

Re: So we have 2 stars and a very good player in Horford, what is left?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2017, 10:57:42 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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What's left?  Getting Ayton or Bamba in next year's draft which is why Ainge picked up the Lakers pick to go along with the Brooklyn pick.  Between the two, we will have a good shot.  Compete as a top 5 team now, contend later.  I like it.

Re: So we have 2 stars and a very good player in Horford, what is left?
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2017, 11:00:49 PM »

Offline Atzar

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It feels so weird to grab another star to go with Thomas and Horford and we're still talking about how this is a team built for the future. Thomas/Hayward/Morris/Crowder/Horford are all in their prime years, Smart is in year 4. What is the wait here?

I get that we still need another piece, probably a big one tbh, but don't we have the assets? Now more than ever I'm wondering how the youth timeline fits in with the stars we have now. Are Tatum and Brown worth more than landing that last piece? If Marc Gasol, or someone we covet becomes available are we still going to hold out in fear of sacrificing the future?

What would Morey do with what we have here? He's another top 5 GM, so I think it's fair to ask.

Who knows? 

He's never had a setup like this.  In his 10 years as Houston's GM, he's never drafted an elite prospect.  He's only drafted a few decent prospects.  He got Jeremy Lamb, and did well to trade him before his value tanked.  Chandler Parsons is probably the best prospect he ever drafted, and he kept him for three years before letting him walk to Dallas as a RFA.  So what would he do with an elite young player if he had one?  We don't know. 

Re: So we have 2 stars and a very good player in Horford, what is left?
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2017, 11:03:00 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Ball Handlers:   IT/Smart/Rozier   B+/A-      When IT takes over, the Celtics are very good

Wings: Hayward/Brown/Tatum/Crowder/Morris   A-       Great depth and very good potential

Bigs: Horford/Zizic/Yabu        B+       Horford is a good NBA player. Who knows about the others


What is left depends on what the goal is.

Championship team: A top 5 player (not likely to happen)
Top 5 team: Another top 30 player.
Top 10 team: They're already there.


Considering we were inarguably a top-5 team last year, you are insinuating either we got worse, or a number of teams have gotten better.

We lost a very good player in Bradley, and a decent one in KO. We added an all-star in Hayward, another potential go-to scorer in Tatum, and a versatile, tough Morris.

Other teams may have improved, but so did we. I think we were the 4th-best team last season, and will be even better this one. So, who leapfrogged us? Houston? There's only one ball. Minnesota? Nope. OKC? Lol.

I modified my post right after I posted it. You saw my error. They are top 5.

My rankings (on-paper, no chemistry considerations):

Tier 1: GS
Tier 2: CLE
Tier 3: HOU, SA, BOS, OKC
Tier 4: MIN, TOR, WAS, MIL
The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing.

Re: So we have 2 stars and a very good player in Horford, what is left?
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2017, 11:26:10 PM »

Offline chiken Green

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Ball Handlers:   IT/Smart/Rozier   B+/A-      When IT takes over, the Celtics are very good

Wings: Hayward/Brown/Tatum/Crowder/Morris   A-       Great depth and very good potential

Bigs: Horford/Zizic/Yabu        B+       Horford is a good NBA player. Who knows about the others


What is left depends on what the goal is.

Championship team: A top 5 player (not likely to happen)
Top 5 team: Another top 30 player.
Top 10 team: They're already there.


Considering we were inarguably a top-5 team last year, you are insinuating either we got worse, or a number of teams have gotten better.

We lost a very good player in Bradley, and a decent one in KO. We added an all-star in Hayward, another potential go-to scorer in Tatum, and a versatile, tough Morris.

Other teams may have improved, but so did we. I think we were the 4th-best team last season, and will be even better this one. So, who leapfrogged us? Houston? There's only one ball. Minnesota? Nope. OKC? Lol.

I modified my post right after I posted it. You saw my error. They are top 5.

My rankings (on-paper, no chemistry considerations):

Tier 1: GS
Tier 2: CLE
Tier 3: HOU, SA, BOS, OKC
Tier 4: MIN, TOR, WAS, MIL

There is no way in the world we are on the same Tier as SA.. They are a 60 Win team on average in the west and they have arguably the true best player in the league in KL, also beleive that they would have knocked off The CAV's last year if they met..
At the very least they should be in Teir 2 alone..

We may (or may not) be in Teir 3 but even if we are, there is a huge gap between Tier 2 and 3.
 
 


Re: So we have 2 stars and a very good player in Horford, what is left?
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2017, 12:00:03 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Ball Handlers:   IT/Smart/Rozier   B+/A-      When IT takes over, the Celtics are very good

Wings: Hayward/Brown/Tatum/Crowder/Morris   A-       Great depth and very good potential

Bigs: Horford/Zizic/Yabu        B+       Horford is a good NBA player. Who knows about the others


What is left depends on what the goal is.

Championship team: A top 5 player (not likely to happen)
Top 5 team: Another top 30 player.
Top 10 team: They're already there.


Considering we were inarguably a top-5 team last year, you are insinuating either we got worse, or a number of teams have gotten better.

We lost a very good player in Bradley, and a decent one in KO. We added an all-star in Hayward, another potential go-to scorer in Tatum, and a versatile, tough Morris.

Other teams may have improved, but so did we. I think we were the 4th-best team last season, and will be even better this one. So, who leapfrogged us? Houston? There's only one ball. Minnesota? Nope. OKC? Lol.

I modified my post right after I posted it. You saw my error. They are top 5.

My rankings (on-paper, no chemistry considerations):

Tier 1: GS
Tier 2: CLE
Tier 3: HOU, SA, BOS, OKC
Tier 4: MIN, TOR, WAS, MIL

There is no way in the world we are on the same Tier as SA.. They are a 60 Win team on average in the west and they have arguably the true best player in the league in KL, also beleive that they would have knocked off The CAV's last year if they met..
At the very least they should be in Teir 2 alone..

We may (or may not) be in Teir 3 but even if we are, there is a huge gap between Tier 2 and 3.

I may be in the minority, but I believed the Spurs could have beaten the Warriors this past season.

They played them very well in the regular season and were up like 22 points before Kawhi went down and out. They were a very bad matchup for the Dubs.
CELTICS 2024

Re: So we have 2 stars and a very good player in Horford, what is left?
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2017, 12:01:24 AM »

Offline liam

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Ball Handlers:   IT/Smart/Rozier   B+/A-      When IT takes over, the Celtics are very good

Wings: Hayward/Brown/Tatum/Crowder/Morris   A-       Great depth and very good potential

Bigs: Horford/Zizic/Yabu        B+       Horford is a good NBA player. Who knows about the others


What is left depends on what the goal is.

Championship team: A top 5 player (not likely to happen)
Top 5 team: Another top 30 player.
Top 10 team: They're already there.


Considering we were inarguably a top-5 team last year, you are insinuating either we got worse, or a number of teams have gotten better.

We lost a very good player in Bradley, and a decent one in KO. We added an all-star in Hayward, another potential go-to scorer in Tatum, and a versatile, tough Morris.

Other teams may have improved, but so did we. I think we were the 4th-best team last season, and will be even better this one. So, who leapfrogged us? Houston? There's only one ball. Minnesota? Nope. OKC? Lol.

I modified my post right after I posted it. You saw my error. They are top 5.

My rankings (on-paper, no chemistry considerations):

Tier 1: GS
Tier 2: CLE
Tier 3: HOU, SA, BOS, OKC
Tier 4: MIN, TOR, WAS, MIL

There is no way in the world we are on the same Tier as SA.. They are a 60 Win team on average in the west and they have arguably the true best player in the league in KL, also beleive that they would have knocked off The CAV's last year if they met..
At the very least they should be in Teir 2 alone..

We may (or may not) be in Teir 3 but even if we are, there is a huge gap between Tier 2 and 3.

I may be in the minority, but I believed the Spurs could have beaten the Warriors this past season.

They played them very well in the regular season and were up like 22 points before Kawhi went down and out. They were a very bad matchup for the Dubs.

That's why Kawhi is the MVP. With him The Spurs could beat anyone without, Swept.