IT4 believes he's due a MAX contract

[Moranis]

I've been pretty consistent that I don't think Boston pays IT a max contract because it will be a bad contract that will likely cause Boston to lose a young player for a team that isn't a real contender.  Now if Boston acquires another player this summer or at the deadline that vaults Boston into true contender status, then signing Thomas makes a lot of sense as it keeps the team at that high level. 

[dreamgreen]

He is a max guy. IMO when they came up with the max contract everyone thought that would be all-stars only now sub-par all-stars are getting max contracts also. This is one of the many fixes the NBA needs to deal with at the next CBA.

But regardless IT is a max guy people need to come to grips with that, not sure what the issue it?

[Celtics4ever]

Knowing Ainge if he can upgrade him he will.   I think the fact that he is a liability on D, and his size make him a little less than a max guy.   He deserves a heck of raise but it is DA we are talking about here.   I could see him letting IT test the market and making a run at  more elite FA like a LeBron.  Normal loyalty rules do not apply with Ainge the guy is stone cold.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Similar to the age requirement that's being revisited, I think Silver should consider a height requirement for max contract eligibility.

[Green-18]

I've been pretty consistent that I don't think Boston pays IT a max contract because it will be a bad contract that will likely cause Boston to lose a young player for a team that isn't a real contender.  Now if Boston acquires another player this summer or at the deadline that vaults Boston into true contender status, then signing Thomas makes a lot of sense as it keeps the team at that high level.

What young player are you most concerned about?  Jaylen hits restricted free agency during the year that Horford's contract ends.  That immediately removes the strain of 1 max contract.  Tatum would hit restricted free agency the year that Haywards contract ends.  The only dilemma might be regarding the luxury tax and resigning Gordon Hayward.  We don't know what the cap will be but I suppose an IT max could cost us Hayward.  If Tatum reaches his potential then there is no way Hayward stands in the way of bringing him back.  At the end of the day our franchise is fine if Jaylen, Tatum, and future draft picks turn into Stars.

[Green-18]

Knowing Ainge if he can upgrade him he will.   I think the fact that he is a liability on D, and his size make him a little less than a max guy.   He deserves a heck of raise but it is DA we are talking about here.   I could see him letting IT test the market and making a run at  more elite FA like a LeBron.  Normal loyalty rules do not apply with Ainge the guy is stone cold.

There is no cap room for LeBron on a max deal unless it's a sign and trade scenario.  Obviously Danny Ainge would try to make something like this work if LeBron wanted to come to Boston.  The odds of LeBron becoming an option are slim to none.  Even if it could happen I would be surprised to not see IT as part of the draw.  Horford would most likely be sacrificed in this scenario.  Cleveland would need to agree to take on Horford's contract and we would probably part ways with a draft pick to make it happen.

[TA9]

Well, there's nothing wrong with believing that you are worth the max. However, that is not the same as saying that he's going to demand a max contract from the Celtics in 2018. I think he's going to accept a contract in the vicinity of 20 million - 24 million per yer.

[Green-18]

Well, there's nothing wrong with believing that you are worth the max. However, that is not the same as saying that he's going to demand a max contract from the Celtics in 2018. I think he's going to accept a contract in the vicinity of 20 million - 24 million per yer.

What's the incentive for IT to do that unless we have another top tier player that we can acquire via trade?  IT will not be taking a discount unless it gives him an excellent shot at winning a ring.  Aside from that expect a max deal.

[Kuberski33]

Well, they're pretty much building the team around him trying to get more length at the other positions to make up for what he costs them defensively. That's why dealing Bradley made the most sense.  So yeah, if he even approaches last season he's getting something pretty close to a max deal from the C's.  And if he goes on the open market, he WILL get multiple max offers.

Not only is he good, he's one of the most marketable players in the league. 

[TA9]

Well, there's nothing wrong with believing that you are worth the max. However, that is not the same as saying that he's going to demand a max contract from the Celtics in 2018. I think he's going to accept a contract in the vicinity of 20 million - 24 million per yer.

What's the incentive for IT to do that unless we have another top tier player that we can acquire via trade?  IT will not be taking a discount unless it gives him an excellent shot at winning a ring.  Aside from that expect a max deal.

You kind of answered your own question.

Taking less money next offseason will give the Celtics a chance of acquiring other good players. Hayward, IT and Horford isn't enough to win a ring and I think IT knows that too.

[Moranis]

I've been pretty consistent that I don't think Boston pays IT a max contract because it will be a bad contract that will likely cause Boston to lose a young player for a team that isn't a real contender.  Now if Boston acquires another player this summer or at the deadline that vaults Boston into true contender status, then signing Thomas makes a lot of sense as it keeps the team at that high level.

What young player are you most concerned about?  Jaylen hits restricted free agency during the year that Horford's contract ends.  That immediately removes the strain of 1 max contract.  Tatum would hit restricted free agency the year that Haywards contract ends.  The only dilemma might be regarding the luxury tax and resigning Gordon Hayward.  We don't know what the cap will be but I suppose an IT max could cost us Hayward.  If Tatum reaches his potential then there is no way Hayward stands in the way of bringing him back.  At the end of the day our franchise is fine if Jaylen, Tatum, and future draft picks turn into Stars.

I think you guys are vastly underestimating the cap and more importantly tax implications. 

Boston has under contract for the 2018/19 season right now
Hayward - 31 million
Horford - 29 million
Crowder - 7 million
Tatum - 7 million
Morris - 5 million
Brown - 5 million
Rozier - 3 million
Zizic - 2 million
Yabu - 3 million
BKN - 6-7 million
LAL - 5-6 million
BOS - 2 million

So those 12 contracts are 105-7 million, which is already over the cap.  That doesn't include Thomas or Smart.  Assuming Thomas gets a max at 30 million.  That puts the team at 135 million which is well into luxury tax range and doesn't have Smart.  So Smart is likely gone next summer because I can't see Boston paying him 15-20 million in salary, when every single penny of that is luxury tax. 

So then Boston enters the 19-20 season with 94 million tied up in Thomas, Horford, and Hayward.  Brown, Tatum, and Crowder are another 22 million.  The 3 18 rookies add another 19 million.  So that is 134 million, which will again be over the luxury tax and that is just 9 players and doesn't count Zizic or Yabu (6 million or so) or Boston's 19 pick (3 million).  So that puts the roster at 143 million with 12 players.  Rozier will be a free agent.  No way he is kept.  Boston also loses Morris, who presumably is the starting PF.  Maybe Tatum or one of the 18 rookies is ready to be a starting NBA PF, but maybe not.  So what do you do with that position.

So entering the summer of 2020 when Horford comes off the books, Boston will be a two time luxury tax player on a team that realistically hasn't won a title.  Brown will be due for his  raise that summer and likely replaces much of Horford's salary.  Crowder also comes off the books and Hayward has a player option (which he likely opts out of and then will look for a 10 year vet max contract).  Now maybe a team of Thomas, Hayward, Brown, Tatum, Zizic, Yabu, and the 3 18 rookies is ready to compete for a title, but I think the odds of that are low. Boston may be able to avoid the tax that summer, but it means Horford and Crowder are gone and Boston isn't bring any high paid vets and if Boston can't avoid the tax (because of Hayward's raise and Brown's new contract) that puts Boston into repeater tax range and the team still hasn't realistically competed for a title to that point (though might finally have that team as a result of all the young players).

The repeater tax is nasty.  It is unlikely that Boston will want to pay the repeater tax, but then that means Hayward is gone and it will be hard to keep all of Brown, Tatum, BKN, LAL, Zizic, Bos 18, Bos 19, etc. going forward.


Maxing Thomas next summer just doesn't make financial sense unless Boston is a realistic contender.  I don't see Boston as a realistic contender without acquiring another top level player (which will require some of the prime assets).  So if Boston doesn't trade for that player, I don't expect them to keep Thomas if Thomas really wants a max.  Even a 3 year max won't fix the luxury tax problems the team will have.

[A Future of Stevens]

Look if IT takes a 2 or 3 year max and couples himself to Horford, I'm all for it. But as it stands, I don't think it's wise to be paying a 5'9 offense only pg 35 million a year for the next 5 years. It hamstrings the franchise. I hate to say it, but if we are forced to choose between Hayward and IT (in this rosy scenario where our young guys become elite and deserrving of large raises) then I am picking Hayward. He is younger, literally 11 inches taller, plays at least average defense, isn't a ball stopper, is a better 3pt shooter, and should be able to play at a high level for longer.

I'm already at the mindset that Hayward will be our best player next year (well best in the sense that defense counts too.)

I love IT, but the franchise comes first. Always.

[A Future of Stevens]

I've been pretty consistent that I don't think Boston pays IT a max contract because it will be a bad contract that will likely cause Boston to lose a young player for a team that isn't a real contender.  Now if Boston acquires another player this summer or at the deadline that vaults Boston into true contender status, then signing Thomas makes a lot of sense as it keeps the team at that high level.

What young player are you most concerned about?  Jaylen hits restricted free agency during the year that Horford's contract ends.  That immediately removes the strain of 1 max contract.  Tatum would hit restricted free agency the year that Haywards contract ends.  The only dilemma might be regarding the luxury tax and resigning Gordon Hayward.  We don't know what the cap will be but I suppose an IT max could cost us Hayward.  If Tatum reaches his potential then there is no way Hayward stands in the way of bringing him back.  At the end of the day our franchise is fine if Jaylen, Tatum, and future draft picks turn into Stars.

I think you guys are vastly underestimating the cap and more importantly tax implications. 

Boston has under contract for the 2018/19 season right now
Hayward - 31 million
Horford - 29 million
Crowder - 7 million
Tatum - 7 million
Morris - 5 million
Brown - 5 million
Rozier - 3 million
Zizic - 2 million
Yabu - 3 million
BKN - 6-7 million
LAL - 5-6 million
BOS - 2 million

So those 12 contracts are 105-7 million, which is already over the cap.  That doesn't include Thomas or Smart.  Assuming Thomas gets a max at 30 million.  That puts the team at 135 million which is well into luxury tax range and doesn't have Smart.  So Smart is likely gone next summer because I can't see Boston paying him 15-20 million in salary, when every single penny of that is luxury tax. 

So then Boston enters the 19-20 season with 94 million tied up in Thomas, Horford, and Hayward.  Brown, Tatum, and Crowder are another 22 million.  The 3 18 rookies add another 19 million.  So that is 134 million, which will again be over the luxury tax and that is just 9 players and doesn't count Zizic or Yabu (6 million or so) or Boston's 19 pick (3 million).  So that puts the roster at 143 million with 12 players.  Rozier will be a free agent.  No way he is kept.  Boston also loses Morris, who presumably is the starting PF.  Maybe Tatum or one of the 18 rookies is ready to be a starting NBA PF, but maybe not.  So what do you do with that position.

So entering the summer of 2020 when Horford comes off the books, Boston will be a two time luxury tax player on a team that realistically hasn't won a title.  Brown will be due for his  raise that summer and likely replaces much of Horford's salary.  Crowder also comes off the books and Hayward has a player option (which he likely opts out of and then will look for a 10 year vet max contract).  Now maybe a team of Thomas, Hayward, Brown, Tatum, Zizic, Yabu, and the 3 18 rookies is ready to compete for a title, but I think the odds of that are low. Boston may be able to avoid the tax that summer, but it means Horford and Crowder are gone and Boston isn't bring any high paid vets and if Boston can't avoid the tax (because of Hayward's raise and Brown's new contract) that puts Boston into repeater tax range and the team still hasn't realistically competed for a title to that point (though might finally have that team as a result of all the young players).

The repeater tax is nasty.  It is unlikely that Boston will want to pay the repeater tax, but then that means Hayward is gone and it will be hard to keep all of Brown, Tatum, BKN, LAL, Zizic, Bos 18, Bos 19, etc. going forward.


Maxing Thomas next summer just doesn't make financial sense unless Boston is a realistic contender.  I don't see Boston as a realistic contender without acquiring another top level player (which will require some of the prime assets).  So if Boston doesn't trade for that player, I don't expect them to keep Thomas if Thomas really wants a max.  Even a 3 year max won't fix the luxury tax problems the team will have.

This. Exactly this. TP

[Kuberski33]

I've been pretty consistent that I don't think Boston pays IT a max contract because it will be a bad contract that will likely cause Boston to lose a young player for a team that isn't a real contender.  Now if Boston acquires another player this summer or at the deadline that vaults Boston into true contender status, then signing Thomas makes a lot of sense as it keeps the team at that high level.

What young player are you most concerned about?  Jaylen hits restricted free agency during the year that Horford's contract ends.  That immediately removes the strain of 1 max contract.  Tatum would hit restricted free agency the year that Haywards contract ends.  The only dilemma might be regarding the luxury tax and resigning Gordon Hayward.  We don't know what the cap will be but I suppose an IT max could cost us Hayward.  If Tatum reaches his potential then there is no way Hayward stands in the way of bringing him back.  At the end of the day our franchise is fine if Jaylen, Tatum, and future draft picks turn into Stars.

I think you guys are vastly underestimating the cap and more importantly tax implications. 

Boston has under contract for the 2018/19 season right now
Hayward - 31 million
Horford - 29 million
Crowder - 7 million
Tatum - 7 million
Morris - 5 million
Brown - 5 million
Rozier - 3 million
Zizic - 2 million
Yabu - 3 million
BKN - 6-7 million
LAL - 5-6 million
BOS - 2 million

So those 12 contracts are 105-7 million, which is already over the cap.  That doesn't include Thomas or Smart.  Assuming Thomas gets a max at 30 million.  That puts the team at 135 million which is well into luxury tax range and doesn't have Smart.  So Smart is likely gone next summer because I can't see Boston paying him 15-20 million in salary, when every single penny of that is luxury tax. 

So then Boston enters the 19-20 season with 94 million tied up in Thomas, Horford, and Hayward.  Brown, Tatum, and Crowder are another 22 million.  The 3 18 rookies add another 19 million.  So that is 134 million, which will again be over the luxury tax and that is just 9 players and doesn't count Zizic or Yabu (6 million or so) or Boston's 19 pick (3 million).  So that puts the roster at 143 million with 12 players.  Rozier will be a free agent.  No way he is kept.  Boston also loses Morris, who presumably is the starting PF.  Maybe Tatum or one of the 18 rookies is ready to be a starting NBA PF, but maybe not.  So what do you do with that position.

So entering the summer of 2020 when Horford comes off the books, Boston will be a two time luxury tax player on a team that realistically hasn't won a title.  Brown will be due for his  raise that summer and likely replaces much of Horford's salary.  Crowder also comes off the books and Hayward has a player option (which he likely opts out of and then will look for a 10 year vet max contract).  Now maybe a team of Thomas, Hayward, Brown, Tatum, Zizic, Yabu, and the 3 18 rookies is ready to compete for a title, but I think the odds of that are low. Boston may be able to avoid the tax that summer, but it means Horford and Crowder are gone and Boston isn't bring any high paid vets and if Boston can't avoid the tax (because of Hayward's raise and Brown's new contract) that puts Boston into repeater tax range and the team still hasn't realistically competed for a title to that point (though might finally have that team as a result of all the young players).

The repeater tax is nasty.  It is unlikely that Boston will want to pay the repeater tax, but then that means Hayward is gone and it will be hard to keep all of Brown, Tatum, BKN, LAL, Zizic, Bos 18, Bos 19, etc. going forward.


Maxing Thomas next summer just doesn't make financial sense unless Boston is a realistic contender.  I don't see Boston as a realistic contender without acquiring another top level player (which will require some of the prime assets).  So if Boston doesn't trade for that player, I don't expect them to keep Thomas if Thomas really wants a max.  Even a 3 year max won't fix the luxury tax problems the team will have.

I think they fully expect to contend for the title as soon as this season but definitely next season.

[Moranis]

I've been pretty consistent that I don't think Boston pays IT a max contract because it will be a bad contract that will likely cause Boston to lose a young player for a team that isn't a real contender.  Now if Boston acquires another player this summer or at the deadline that vaults Boston into true contender status, then signing Thomas makes a lot of sense as it keeps the team at that high level.

What young player are you most concerned about?  Jaylen hits restricted free agency during the year that Horford's contract ends.  That immediately removes the strain of 1 max contract.  Tatum would hit restricted free agency the year that Haywards contract ends.  The only dilemma might be regarding the luxury tax and resigning Gordon Hayward.  We don't know what the cap will be but I suppose an IT max could cost us Hayward.  If Tatum reaches his potential then there is no way Hayward stands in the way of bringing him back.  At the end of the day our franchise is fine if Jaylen, Tatum, and future draft picks turn into Stars.

I think you guys are vastly underestimating the cap and more importantly tax implications. 

Boston has under contract for the 2018/19 season right now
Hayward - 31 million
Horford - 29 million
Crowder - 7 million
Tatum - 7 million
Morris - 5 million
Brown - 5 million
Rozier - 3 million
Zizic - 2 million
Yabu - 3 million
BKN - 6-7 million
LAL - 5-6 million
BOS - 2 million

So those 12 contracts are 105-7 million, which is already over the cap.  That doesn't include Thomas or Smart.  Assuming Thomas gets a max at 30 million.  That puts the team at 135 million which is well into luxury tax range and doesn't have Smart.  So Smart is likely gone next summer because I can't see Boston paying him 15-20 million in salary, when every single penny of that is luxury tax. 

So then Boston enters the 19-20 season with 94 million tied up in Thomas, Horford, and Hayward.  Brown, Tatum, and Crowder are another 22 million.  The 3 18 rookies add another 19 million.  So that is 134 million, which will again be over the luxury tax and that is just 9 players and doesn't count Zizic or Yabu (6 million or so) or Boston's 19 pick (3 million).  So that puts the roster at 143 million with 12 players.  Rozier will be a free agent.  No way he is kept.  Boston also loses Morris, who presumably is the starting PF.  Maybe Tatum or one of the 18 rookies is ready to be a starting NBA PF, but maybe not.  So what do you do with that position.

So entering the summer of 2020 when Horford comes off the books, Boston will be a two time luxury tax player on a team that realistically hasn't won a title.  Brown will be due for his  raise that summer and likely replaces much of Horford's salary.  Crowder also comes off the books and Hayward has a player option (which he likely opts out of and then will look for a 10 year vet max contract).  Now maybe a team of Thomas, Hayward, Brown, Tatum, Zizic, Yabu, and the 3 18 rookies is ready to compete for a title, but I think the odds of that are low. Boston may be able to avoid the tax that summer, but it means Horford and Crowder are gone and Boston isn't bring any high paid vets and if Boston can't avoid the tax (because of Hayward's raise and Brown's new contract) that puts Boston into repeater tax range and the team still hasn't realistically competed for a title to that point (though might finally have that team as a result of all the young players).

The repeater tax is nasty.  It is unlikely that Boston will want to pay the repeater tax, but then that means Hayward is gone and it will be hard to keep all of Brown, Tatum, BKN, LAL, Zizic, Bos 18, Bos 19, etc. going forward.


Maxing Thomas next summer just doesn't make financial sense unless Boston is a realistic contender.  I don't see Boston as a realistic contender without acquiring another top level player (which will require some of the prime assets).  So if Boston doesn't trade for that player, I don't expect them to keep Thomas if Thomas really wants a max.  Even a 3 year max won't fix the luxury tax problems the team will have.

I think they fully expect to contend for the title as soon as this season but definitely next season.

No they don't.  There is a reason Wyc said they were 2 players away, because they were 2 players away.  They added Hayward, meaning they are still 1 player away.  That player isn't on the roster for this season and probably next (maybe Brown or Tatum gets there, maybe not). 

And let's think about this logically, there is no way Thomas, Hayward, and Horford with really young players and guys like Crowder and Morris are a team that is going to win a title with that core group.  Even if the Cavs implode next summer, Boston isn't better than any number of western teams and who knows maybe the Sixers or Bucks take a big leap this season and enter the 19 season as the best team in the East. 

Boston isn't winning a title with Thomas, Hayward, and Horford as the core of the team.  Sadly that team just isn't good enough.  And you can't keep all 3 and expect the young players to really develop into a contender for the tax reasons I outlined.  It would be great if those guys could all be around and be bench players on a team led by Brown, Tatum, Porter, Bamba, etc. but financially it just isn't going to work.