Author Topic: Just like i said........ the loss of Bradley undermines the  (Read 13007 times)

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Re: Just like i said........ the loss of Bradley undermines the
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2017, 12:17:43 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Going to miss Avery s incredible Defense. ,  good guy attitude . Team player .

Too streaky shooter , hed either win you a game , or shoot you out  He either hit every shot he took or none. 

My big issue was his inability the stay on the court .   One game he is the hero , next day announced he can't play for 3-10 games .   

can't go far with a player that is constantly injured.

Re: Just like i said........ the loss of Bradley undermines the
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2017, 12:17:44 PM »

Offline ThaPreacher

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Hayward signing! We great downgraded our 2 guard position in order to get a mediocre PF. I would rather have seen Avery walk than do this a few days after landing a player like Hayward.

I'm probably the most committed IT4 guy in here, but Bradley being a defensive stalwart was a prerequisite next to him. Bradley was one of our best shooters, our best on ball defender, and last year was one of our best rebounders. Hayward will make up some of this things, but not all of them, and i'm a lot less impressed that they won't be playing together.

+Hayward - Bradley just doesn't impress me. It's an upgrade but both after moving Smart would have made for a better ball club. I'm now left rooting for a Jamal Crawford signing to get some shooting back, no way Jaylen can be a starting 2 guard next year.

I'm convinced. You used such overwhelming evidence in your post that your point is certainly irrefutable.

When life itself is lunatic who knows where the madless lies.
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Re: Just like i said........ the loss of Bradley undermines the
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2017, 12:19:22 PM »

Offline blink

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can't really stop ellite offensive guard

this is silly, no other guards in the NBA are going to stop the top of the top elite guards like westbrook, harden, KI.  AB got closer than literally anyone in the NBA.

Re: Just like i said........ the loss of Bradley undermines the
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2017, 12:19:34 PM »

Offline BostonClamCrowdah

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And the green team homers overrate their players like nobody ever

Re: Just like i said........ the loss of Bradley undermines the
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2017, 12:20:07 PM »

Offline jade88

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The team is quite a bit better. Individual players don't matter as much.

Hayward + Morris >> AB + KO

Thomas/Bradley/Hayward/Crowder/Horford with the need for a real PF would have been our absolute best lineup next season. Taking Bradley out makes us a lesser team, what part of that is lost on everybody in here?

Re: Just like i said........ the loss of Bradley undermines the
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2017, 12:24:48 PM »

Offline Eja117

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If the Warriors and Cavs didn't have so many all stars they could afford a lot more Avery Bradleys

Re: Just like i said........ the loss of Bradley undermines the
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2017, 12:24:50 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Hayward is a much better player than Avery.  Hate to tell you that.  And, Hayward can play SG, with Crowder at the 3.  So upgrade all around.

I acknowledged that Hayward is better, much better because he can create his own shot and is pretty much better in every regard. All i'm saying is that having Hayward in addition to Bradley would have been more of a win now move, than dropping our best 2 guard after signing him.

I'm also not convinced Hayward can play the 2.
Read somewhere that Hayward plays the 2 just as much as the 3, and that he is generally more effective at the 2.  Perhaps someone who knows about these things can dig it up?

Re: Just like i said........ the loss of Bradley undermines the
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2017, 12:26:11 PM »

Offline Smartacus

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I suppose I agree in principle that keeping Bradley might have been better for the short term but when he's leaving next year and this team's development curve peaks around 2021 I don't really think win now should be our primary concern.

You also make it sound like he was the only one who liked Isaiah on the team...

Quote
Right when Isaiah gave me that look, it all made sense. Isaiah is the heart of this team. He’s having an MVP-style year. He never asks for any extra attention, but I know he hates being overlooked. Boston knows all about that. This city doesn’t overlook him, even when other people have.
www.theplayerstribune.com/marcus-smart-boston-celtics-playoffs-2017/amp/

Trading Bradley was an inevitability. He deserves our respect and admiration but he'll be know as one of the 2 the best guys from stage 1 of the rebuild. This summer we've moved into stage 2.

Re: Just like i said........ the loss of Bradley undermines the
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2017, 12:28:05 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Trading Bradley was an inevitability. He deserves our respect and admiration but he'll be know as one of the 2 the best guys from stage 1 of the rebuild. This summer we've moved into stage 2.
Maybe. But someone sill needs to make a compelling case about why two years of Morris is better than one year of Bradley.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Just like i said........ the loss of Bradley undermines the
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2017, 12:30:37 PM »

Offline jade88

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I suppose I agree in principle that keeping Bradley might have been better for the short term but when he's leaving next year and this team's development curve peaks around 2021 I don't really think win now should be our primary concern.

You also make it sound like he was the only one who liked Isaiah on the team...

Quote
Right when Isaiah gave me that look, it all made sense. Isaiah is the heart of this team. He’s having an MVP-style year. He never asks for any extra attention, but I know he hates being overlooked. Boston knows all about that. This city doesn’t overlook him, even when other people have.
www.theplayerstribune.com/marcus-smart-boston-celtics-playoffs-2017/amp/

Trading Bradley was an inevitability. He deserves our respect and admiration but he'll be know as one of the 2 the best guys from stage 1 of the rebuild. This summer we've moved into stage 2.


So with 2 All-Star and potentially the 1st seed in the conference, we're still playing the long game? Jesus, how long until we starting making win now moves?

Re: Just like i said........ the loss of Bradley undermines the
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2017, 12:37:30 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Hayward is a much better player than Avery.  Hate to tell you that.  And, Hayward can play SG, with Crowder at the 3.  So upgrade all around.

Just to be clear, I would like to note that while we have obtained Hayward, we have also lost:

* Avery Bradley
* Kelly Olynyk
* Amir Johnson
* Jonas Jerebko
* Tyler Zeller

And based on the S&T talk, we may not even be done with that list yet.

I would also like to note that we reportedly COULD have had Jimmy Butler (who IS better then Hayward) and all we would have had to give up is a 3rd round pick (i.e. Tatum).  We could have absorbed Butler's entire contract and still had over $10M - $13m in cap space left, which would have allowed us to keep Bradley AND Olynyk AND maybe even Jerebko too.

I am kinda ok with where we are, but I would have been a hell of a lot happier if we just made that Butler trade instead of pinning our entire hopes on an offence-only guy and giving up half our team in the process.  It would have been a shame to give up Tatum, but we have two potential top 10 picks next year anyway so I could stomach it.

Re: Just like i said........ the loss of Bradley undermines the
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2017, 12:37:45 PM »

Offline Granath

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Hayward signing! We great downgraded our 2 guard position in order to get a mediocre PF. I would rather have seen Avery walk than do this a few days after landing a player like Hayward.

I'm probably the most committed IT4 guy in here, but Bradley being a defensive stalwart was a prerequisite next to him. Bradley was one of our best shooters, our best on ball defender, and last year was one of our best rebounders. Hayward will make up some of this things, but not all of them, and i'm a lot less impressed that they won't be playing together.

+Hayward - Bradley just doesn't impress me. It's an upgrade but both after moving Smart would have made for a better ball club. I'm now left rooting for a Jamal Crawford signing to get some shooting back, no way Jaylen can be a starting 2 guard next year.

I'm convinced. You used such overwhelming evidence in your post that your point is certainly irrefutable.

When life itself is lunatic who knows where the madless lies.

Well, sometimes it's just easier to humor a lunatic than actually bother to disagree with them. :)

There's no one on this forum that's a bigger AB fan than I am. I'm one of the few who defended his contract 3 years ago. When everyone else was talking about how Bradley wasn't worth anywhere near $8m, I said it was a good deal. I'm the one who created the "Ode to Avery" thread. I really like that guy.

But there's a whole host of factors that make this a decent move:

(1) We couldn't resign him next year. It was either AB or IT. There was no feasible "both" option.

(2) Bradley had his best season last year but it wasn't sustainable. He started off smoking hot - 19ppg and 9rpb his first couple of months. He slid back to the median throughout the entire year and his stats after the All-Star break 13.6/4.5 with a TS% of .518 are easily achievable by Brown. Truthfully, AB wasn't really very good from December on of last year. I believe Brown surpasses those stats this coming year. In short, I don't think Bradley leaving will really impact the offensive end of the court.

(3) Where Bradley will be missed is on the defensive end of the court. But we got killed by large back courts last year with and without AB. Adding the 6'7" Brown back there will go a long way to solving that issue. Add in Smart at 6'4" and we have a backcourt with great size and defensive capabilities. We'll gain in size what we lose in man-on defense.

(4) Now starting Brown/Smart in the back court would be a problem in years past because any time we took IT off the floor the offense stagnated. That's again something else Bradley couldn't help with. With Hayward out there that won't happen. That's another huge plus.

(5) Bradley, as good as he was, doesn't fit multiple roles. This caused problems when putting together guys on the court. Bradley couldn't move to the 3. He couldn't play the 1. Now almost every single expected major contributor plays multiple positions. Brad love being able to mix-and-match his guys to exploit opposing team's weaknesses. He's better able to do that with Bradley out the door.

I'm not saying we won't miss him. I just don't see it as a massive loss. We take a step back losing him but 3 or 4 forward with Hayward coming on board. And we were going to take that step back either this year or next anyway because we couldn't keep him around. If someone wants to wring their hands and think this was a huge problem then let them.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Just like i said........ the loss of Bradley undermines the
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2017, 12:43:32 PM »

Offline Granath

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Hayward is a much better player than Avery.  Hate to tell you that.  And, Hayward can play SG, with Crowder at the 3.  So upgrade all around.

Just to be clear, I would like to note that while we have obtained Hayward, we have also lost:

* Avery Bradley
* Kelly Olynyk
* Amir Johnson
* Jonas Jerebko
* Tyler Zeller

And based on the S&T talk, we may not even be done with that list yet.

I would also like to note that we reportedly COULD have had Jimmy Butler (who IS better then Hayward) and all we would have had to give up is a 3rd round pick (i.e. Tatum).  We could have absorbed Butler's entire contract and still had over $10M - $13m in cap space left, which would have allowed us to keep Bradley AND Olynyk AND maybe even Jerebko too.

I am kinda ok with where we are, but I would have been a hell of a lot happier if we just made that Butler trade instead of pinning our entire hopes on an offence-only guy and giving up half our team in the process.  It would have been a shame to give up Tatum, but we have two potential top 10 picks next year anyway so I could stomach it.

So, to summarize, you think that:

Butler
1 year of AB
KO (at market price)

is somehow better than:

Hayward
Tatum
Morris

I can only see that if you're only looking at that one year. But the minute AB is gone, that trade becomes woefully lopsided the other way. And if Tatum turns into a star - which the Cs front office is convinced he'll be - then there's no way those are anywhere close to being even. It's actually laughable if Tatum pans out.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Just like i said........ the loss of Bradley undermines the
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2017, 12:46:41 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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Hayward signing! We great downgraded our 2 guard position in order to get a mediocre PF. I would rather have seen Avery walk than do this a few days after landing a player like Hayward.

I'm probably the most committed IT4 guy in here, but Bradley being a defensive stalwart was a prerequisite next to him. Bradley was one of our best shooters, our best on ball defender, and last year was one of our best rebounders. Hayward will make up some of this things, but not all of them, and i'm a lot less impressed that they won't be playing together.

+Hayward - Bradley just doesn't impress me. It's an upgrade but both after moving Smart would have made for a better ball club. I'm now left rooting for a Jamal Crawford signing to get some shooting back, no way Jaylen can be a starting 2 guard next year.

13th best PF in WINS on ESPN's Real Plus Minus is NOT mediocre!!!!

He will have far more OPEN threes in green that he has EVER seen in his professional career and I bet (IF WE KEEP HIM) that he shoots well over 35% from deep for us!!!

Smitty77

Re: Just like i said........ the loss of Bradley undermines the
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2017, 12:49:26 PM »

Online BitterJim

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Trading Bradley was an inevitability. He deserves our respect and admiration but he'll be know as one of the 2 the best guys from stage 1 of the rebuild. This summer we've moved into stage 2.
Maybe. But someone sill needs to make a compelling case about why two years of Morris is better than one year of Bradley.

It's not, but this is a false dichotomy.  We didn't trade Bradley for Morris; we traded him for Morris AND THE ABILITY TO KEEP BOTH SMART AND CROWDER.  Nobody has said that this trade makes sense in a vacuum, because it doesn't, but here in the real world it actually does.  Maybe there was a better deal out there (only the front office knows), but acting like this deal was about Bradley vs. Morris is just playing dumb
I'm bitter.