So what's our starting 5 now?

[D Dub]

Interesting quote from Brad about the perceived logjam on the wing

I don’t have the five positions anymore, it may be as simple as three positions now, where you’re either a ball-handler, a wing or a big. … We’ve become more versatile as the years have gone on.

Last year it was four positions; now he's looking at three.  It's shifted from being a wing who can play up a spot as a 'swing'.  Now, it's all about bigs who can shift down, handle the ball and guard some.

Guys like Morris and Tatum fit that bill, and I expect both to find themselves as the 'big' flanked by three wings and a ball-handled.   Having guys like Smart, Brown and Hayward (who can all guard a bigger player when called upon) gives us that luxery. 

So I expect the Token-starting lineup lists Morris at pf but for all intents and purposes he's our second big behind Horford.  He can play five with Tatum at four, along with Smart and any combo of shooters.

We also might look noticeably bigger, if Brad starts Gordon at two.  I kind of expect we start,
IT, Hayward, Crowder, MM, and Horford but our depth chart is more accurately represented as,

Ball handlers:
Thomas, Smart, Rozier

Wings:
Hayward, Brown, Crowder

Bigs:
Horford, Morris, Tatum

When you look at it like that, were actually pretty balanced.  Every one of those nine players has versatility to play at least two positions at a high level.

[max215]

Why are we assuming that Morris is starting?

He's like the only guy qualified to play starter minutes at 4 right now. 

I agree though, I think we'll still look to add a proper big, we're awfully low on them right now. That guy might be the one to start.

As much as Brad loves playing small, he almost always insists on starting two traditional bigs. I honestly think there's a better chance we start whoever we get for the RMLE over Morris.

I just flashed back to those Zeller/Lee starting lineups and shuddered. But I agree. I think we'll look for a more conventional 4 to start who just probably won't get a ton of minutes.

I'm more expecting a conventional 5. We need to maintain the fallacy that Horford is a 4 to placate him.

LOL I had that thought too. Horford playing so much on the perimeter to midrange for shooting and playmaking does give us space for a more paint-based presence. But it'd have to be a guy mobile enough to cover 4s because Horford can't handle many of those at this stage in his career.

I really want Dedmon. He can start in Amir's role for the first few minutes, and when he comes out Horford can play exclusively 5 for the rest of the game.

That's my (realistic) target too, though I don't think his mobility is that great. But lord knows we need a rebounder.

He's my top choice, but thankfully there are a few options: Alan Williams, Bogut, Willie Reed, maybe even Alex Len.

[dreamgreen]

IT 35 / Rozier 13
Smart 32 / Brown 8 / Tatum 8
Hayward 32 / Crowder 16
Morris 32 / Crowder 16
Horford 32 / Zizic 16

whoa...whoa...
so Jaylen Brown is only getting 8 minutes at the backup 2 this year?  somehow I think he gets more minutes than that.

Nah. Tatum is not playing SG. The obvious conclusion here is that Brown and Smart will both get ~30 minutes at the G spot, and Rozier will do mop-up duty for less than 10 a game. Tatum is the odd man out and will only play what he's able to take away from Morris and/or Crowder.

Really need someone more ready than Zizic behind Horford, though.

Smart at 32 mpg makes me want to puke. IT and Hayward would have to average 30 ppg! I can see Smart getting 25 mpg anything more than that tells me Brown and Tatum are not developing.

Smart averaged 27, 27, and 30 minutes in his three NBA seasons. His minutes will likely not be materially different and hover around 30.

His defense is that good.

His defense is very good but IMO has been over rated on this board. He struggles with quick/fast players and their is a fantasy he can guard bigs but the fact is he really can't. For a few plays and certain types he can get away with it for 5 mpg but it ends there.

I would argue his minutes were that high because of a lack of quality depth. With AB gone he will certainly get some of those minutes but I would hope Brown and Tatum develop to the point where CBS has to find them more minutes but that could still take longer. I would think Brown would average 20 mpg this year though.

[Th3M2n]

Interesting quote from Brad about the perceived logjam on the wing

I don’t have the five positions anymore, it may be as simple as three positions now, where you’re either a ball-handler, a wing or a big. … We’ve become more versatile as the years have gone on.

Last year it was four positions; now he's looking at three.  It's shifted from being a wing who can play up a spot as a 'swing'.  Now, it's all about bigs who can shift down, handle the ball and guard some.

Guys like Morris and Tatum fit that bill, and I expect both to find themselves as the 'big' flanked by three wings and a ball-handled.   Having guys like Smart, Brown and Hayward (who can all guard a bigger player when called upon) gives us that luxery. 

So I expect the Token-starting lineup lists Morris at pf but for all intents and purposes he's our second big behind Horford.  He can play five with Tatum at four, along with Smart and any combo of shooters.

We also might look noticeably bigger, if Brad starts Gordon at two.  I kind of expect we start,
IT, Hayward, Crowder, MM, and Horford but our depth chart is more accurately represented as,

Ball handlers:
Thomas, Smart, Rozier

Wings:
Hayward, Brown, Crowder

Bigs:
Horford, Morris, Tatum

When you look at it like that, were actually pretty balanced.  Every one of those nine players has versatility to play at least two positions at a high level.

Disagree quite a bit...but using brad's split into 3 positions, i actually see him play 1 ball handler, 3 wings and 1 big.

I also split the roster into:

Ball Handlers: IT, Smart, Rozier
Wings:  Hayward, Brown, Tatum, Morris, Crowder, Yabu
Bigs:  Horford, Zizic, Theis

So our starting lineup could play out as:

BH: IT
Wing: Brown
Wing: Hayward
Wing: Morris
Big:  Horford

As we would be basically playing with 3 - 6'7"+ guys paired with a 6"10-6"11 guy as the big at all times, it creates mismatches our way almost all the time.  In addition, it explains why we are going Wing HEAVY on this roster.

[kozlodoev]

Bigs:
Horford, Morris, Tatum

When you look at it like that, were actually pretty balanced.  Every one of those nine players has versatility to play at least two positions at a high level.

Yes, when you invent two fictional "bigs" in Morris (who played largely SF in his career so far) and 205 lbs Tatum (insert obligatory LOLWUT? here) you can make it seem pretty balanced.

Except it isn't really. We need more bigs. Can't gloss over the roster deficiencies with lots of hand-waving.

[slam]

Interesting quote from Brad about the perceived logjam on the wing

I don’t have the five positions anymore, it may be as simple as three positions now, where you’re either a ball-handler, a wing or a big. … We’ve become more versatile as the years have gone on.

Last year it was four positions; now he's looking at three.  It's shifted from being a wing who can play up a spot as a 'swing'.  Now, it's all about bigs who can shift down, handle the ball and guard some.

Guys like Morris and Tatum fit that bill, and I expect both to find themselves as the 'big' flanked by three wings and a ball-handled.   Having guys like Smart, Brown and Hayward (who can all guard a bigger player when called upon) gives us that luxery. 

So I expect the Token-starting lineup lists Morris at pf but for all intents and purposes he's our second big behind Horford.  He can play five with Tatum at four, along with Smart and any combo of shooters.

We also might look noticeably bigger, if Brad starts Gordon at two.  I kind of expect we start,
IT, Hayward, Crowder, MM, and Horford but our depth chart is more accurately represented as,

Ball handlers:
Thomas, Smart, Rozier

Wings:
Hayward, Brown, Crowder

Bigs:
Horford, Morris, Tatum

When you look at it like that, were actually pretty balanced.  Every one of those nine players has versatility to play at least two positions at a high level.

Tatum would be considered a Wing rather than a Big, but perhaps you can throw Zizic in with the Bigs if he earns some minutes.

[droopdog7]

5'7, 5'9, 5'10"  does it really matter?  He still is going to get abused on d, posted up routinely for easy buckets, and be a great scorer on offense (as long as his body / athleticism holds up).  We get a lot of points from IT but he presents a lot of problems on d for us.

How many point guards were posting him up in previous years?  Does not happen all that often.  And if opposing PG's are going to be posting him up, should opposing SG's or SF's have been posting him up all the time too?  Did not happen much either.

I dunno, I seem to remember a lot of this happening...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMoO0TD0VD8

Yes, it happened versus the Wiz because everyone and their mama was making a big deal out of hiding IT on Porter.  But it did not happen against the Cavs or the Bulls and very rarely any other time.

So sure, Wall is going to give IT and the Celts problems (just like he does every other team).  But now Wall is likely going to have to guard IT, which he did not do much either.

It doesn't happen when you're hiding IT on JR Smith in the corner, because you'll rarely see JR Smith bringing it up into open space.

But this also means you need to micromanage your defensive assignment, and you need your other starting G to be a universal defensive stopper (should be able to guard the likes of Irving, DeRozan, and some measure in-between).

We that's sorta the point.  How many teams are going to completely change their offense, and have the personnel to do it effectively, to post up IT?  Probably not as many as you think?  And I have no issues putting IT on Kyrie.  It's not like our defensive stoppers every had any real success on him either.  Why not make his ass work on the defensive end too?

[tstorey_97]

I don't at all agree that Morris is our starter - Crowder is clearly a better player than him, the only reason to start Morris would be an aversion to going small early in the game.

Crowder is not a PF. Crowder couldn't make a case to get the start at PF last season over the travelling circus that included appearances by Amir, Gerald Green, Jaylen Brown and even Marcus Smart.

Starting Crowder at PF will be an unmitigated disaster, unless he miraculously grew 3 inches this offseason.

TP for this.

So many suggested lineups have players out of position, seems another deal is coming.

Perhaps, it's the Hayward v Crowder issue, but, Hayward is a three and Crowder is behind him on the bench, which, if I was Crowder, I would ask to be traded where I can start and get my deserved pay bump as a starter a couple of years hence.

Repeat, Crowder and Hayward play the same position and Crowder needs to start. Issue is not resolved by studying a stats website and putting Hayward or Crowder or both out of position.

The point is Ainge knows this and has a plan...maybe.

On the subject, Morris looks like Horford's backup as opposed to being a starter.

Yes, the NBA is a positionless world now unless, the guy you are guarding is better suited to the position he is playing than you are.

[jambr380]

I want to see Brown at SG - it worked last year for a fairly decent sample size. I get that he has not reached his potential (at all), but he adds size and athleticism to the starting line-up. He should also get used to playing with the starters since he is well on his way to stardom.

I do think Crowder will get the nod, though. Not only has he proven himself as a starter, but he helps spread the floor and adds 'toughness.' And, not that it really matters, but it might ease Jae's anger with signing Hayward. Knowing that Brad still has trust in him might rejuvenate his play and make him happy with the signing. I would hate to see his reaction to backing up Hayward.

Fwiw, I think Smart would also make a solid starter, but agree that he is necessary to run the 2nd unit. For selfish reasons, I also prefer him to remain a back up so his value doesn't catapult. It worked with KO (clearly 'better' than Amir) who signed for a very reasonable deal.

This is all assuming Morris starts, btw, which I think is a foregone conclusion (again, see Amir starting)., but I don't expect huge minutes for him with Crowder, Tatum, and Hayward sliding to the 4 at times.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

bench should be strong with rozier, brown, tatum and either morris or another big. assuming smart starts next to IT.

[kozlodoev]

The point is Ainge knows this and has a plan...maybe.

So far his "plan" is that he is not trading Crowder, and is "excited" about lineup possibilities...

[Celtics4ever]

Ball handlers:
Thomas, Smart, Rozier

Wings:
Hayward, Brown, Crowder

Bigs:
Horford, Morris, Tatum

When you look at it like that, were actually pretty balanced.  Every one of those nine players has versatility to play at least two positions at a high level

I disagree, as Koz ably stated Morris is wing not a big, one could argue Tatum is more of a wing.   Zizic is a big so that makes two.  Yabu is a wing.   I think we could use another big to go with Horford and Ante.     Some guys can switch around but any team that goes big could hurt us if we stand pat.   We are fast and should be able to run but you needs boards to start the fast break.   I would like us to see another big for that reason.

[csfansince60s]

Better.

[OldSchoolDude]

I would really like to see this 5 on the court:

PG: Smart
SG: Hayward
SF: Crowder
PF: Morris
 C: Horford

I suspect that you swap out IT for Smart and that's the starting lineup.

[CelticsElite]

Interesting quote from Brad about the perceived logjam on the wing

I don’t have the five positions anymore, it may be as simple as three positions now, where you’re either a ball-handler, a wing or a big. … We’ve become more versatile as the years have gone on.

Last year it was four positions; now he's looking at three.  It's shifted from being a wing who can play up a spot as a 'swing'.  Now, it's all about bigs who can shift down, handle the ball and guard some.

Guys like Morris and Tatum fit that bill, and I expect both to find themselves as the 'big' flanked by three wings and a ball-handled.   Having guys like Smart, Brown and Hayward (who can all guard a bigger player when called upon) gives us that luxery. 

So I expect the Token-starting lineup lists Morris at pf but for all intents and purposes he's our second big behind Horford.  He can play five with Tatum at four, along with Smart and any combo of shooters.

We also might look noticeably bigger, if Brad starts Gordon at two.  I kind of expect we start,
IT, Hayward, Crowder, MM, and Horford but our depth chart is more accurately represented as,

Ball handlers:
Thomas, Smart, Rozier

Wings:
Hayward, Brown, Crowder

Bigs:
Horford, Morris, Tatum

When you look at it like that, were actually pretty balanced.  Every one of those nine players has versatility to play at least two positions at a high level.

Tatum is a big? That's a new one