No need to trade one of Smart/Crowder/Bradley in order to sign Hayward

[Roy H.]

SL can correct me if I'm wrong, but if we moved Jackson, Rozier, etc., another way we could get Hayward another small bit of salary would be to sign and trade for him.

We're allowed to complete a trade using cap space that leaves us as much as $100k over the cap. So, have Hayward sign a deal with Utah for $100k more than we have, and then send the Jazz a #2 or cash for their trouble.  I think Utah also would get a trade exception.

That brings the "max" gap to around $180k, right?

[Surferdad]

Everything I read yesterday said that waiving everybody and dumping Rozier with nothing in return still leaves the Celtics $1M short of being able to offer a max contract. Never mind that Ainge is not the type to dump a useful player for cap space alone.

Considering that Rozier's salary is $2M, I read that statistic to mean that the Celtics need to clear $3M in salary. If we are getting a player or players back, then that means we have to send out at least $15M in salary to take back $12M, due to the 125% rule.

Bradley ($8.8M) and Crowder ($6.8M) get us there, and the salaries of Mickey and Jackson can be added as needed. That gives a target of $12.5M to $14.8M for returning player(s). There are surprisingly few players in that range by themselves, but obviously we could get more than one player in return.

Of the individual players with salaries in that range, the most interesting/plausible are: Tyson Chandler, Gorgui Dieng, Kenneth Faried, Eric Gordon, Robin Lopez and Marvin Williams.

But the truth is I don't understand the salary cap or trade rules at all, so maybe I wrong about all of this! 

Well I don't understand the cap rules and am mediocre on trades rules, but I like your post, so TP for you.

Among the players you mention, I would first eliminate Eric Gordon (6'4") to leave only bigs.  Next filter are the 'dinosaurs', those that are pretty much on the downside of their careers --  Chandler and Faried.  That leaves Dieng, Lopez and Williams.  Then among these, only Marvin Williams has legitimate 3-pt range.  Unfortunately, he's still owed about $27M over the next 2 seasons from Charlotte.  Dieng is owned even more from Minny and for longer (3 seasons).  CONCLUSION:  I don't know what to tell you. 

[saltlover]

SL can correct me if I'm wrong, but if we moved Jackson, Rozier, etc., another way we could get Hayward another small bit of salary would be to sign and trade for him.

We're allowed to complete a trade using cap space that leaves us as much as $100k over the cap. So, have Hayward sign a deal with Utah for $100k more than we have, and then send the Jazz a #2 or cash for their trouble.  I think Utah also would get a trade exception.

That brings the "max" gap to around $180k, right?

That's correct, but it's still a gap, unfortunately.   I will be completely shocked if all of Smart, Crowder, and Bradley are still on the roster after Hayward has signed his contract.  The projected cap decreasing by $3 million over the course of a season has created a small bind.

[Roy H.]

SL can correct me if I'm wrong, but if we moved Jackson, Rozier, etc., another way we could get Hayward another small bit of salary would be to sign and trade for him.

We're allowed to complete a trade using cap space that leaves us as much as $100k over the cap. So, have Hayward sign a deal with Utah for $100k more than we have, and then send the Jazz a #2 or cash for their trouble.  I think Utah also would get a trade exception.

That brings the "max" gap to around $180k, right?

That's correct, but it's still a gap, unfortunately.   I will be completely shocked if all of Smart, Crowder, and Bradley are still on the roster after Hayward has signed his contract.  The projected cap decreasing by $3 million over the course of a season has created a small bind.

Oh, I agree with you. I think at least two of Rozier / Smart / AB / Jae are gone. I would speculate AB and Marcus.

But, it's fun to brainstorm options.

[BudweiserCeltic]

SL can correct me if I'm wrong, but if we moved Jackson, Rozier, etc., another way we could get Hayward another small bit of salary would be to sign and trade for him.

We're allowed to complete a trade using cap space that leaves us as much as $100k over the cap. So, have Hayward sign a deal with Utah for $100k more than we have, and then send the Jazz a #2 or cash for their trouble.  I think Utah also would get a trade exception.

That brings the "max" gap to around $180k, right?

That's correct, but it's still a gap, unfortunately.   I will be completely shocked if all of Smart, Crowder, and Bradley are still on the roster after Hayward has signed his contract.  The projected cap decreasing by $3 million over the course of a season has created a small bind.

Oh, I agree with you. I think at least two of Rozier / Smart / AB / Jae are gone. I would speculate AB and Marcus.

But, it's fun to brainstorm options.

I think Danny loves AB too much, we'll see.

[Roy H.]

SL can correct me if I'm wrong, but if we moved Jackson, Rozier, etc., another way we could get Hayward another small bit of salary would be to sign and trade for him.

We're allowed to complete a trade using cap space that leaves us as much as $100k over the cap. So, have Hayward sign a deal with Utah for $100k more than we have, and then send the Jazz a #2 or cash for their trouble.  I think Utah also would get a trade exception.

That brings the "max" gap to around $180k, right?

That's correct, but it's still a gap, unfortunately.   I will be completely shocked if all of Smart, Crowder, and Bradley are still on the roster after Hayward has signed his contract.  The projected cap decreasing by $3 million over the course of a season has created a small bind.

Oh, I agree with you. I think at least two of Rozier / Smart / AB / Jae are gone. I would speculate AB and Marcus.

But, it's fun to brainstorm options.

I think Danny loves AB too much, we'll see.

He loves him, but I don't think we'll resign him next year.

[No Nickname]

SL can correct me if I'm wrong, but if we moved Jackson, Rozier, etc., another way we could get Hayward another small bit of salary would be to sign and trade for him.

We're allowed to complete a trade using cap space that leaves us as much as $100k over the cap. So, have Hayward sign a deal with Utah for $100k more than we have, and then send the Jazz a #2 or cash for their trouble.  I think Utah also would get a trade exception.

That brings the "max" gap to around $180k, right?

That's correct, but it's still a gap, unfortunately.   I will be completely shocked if all of Smart, Crowder, and Bradley are still on the roster after Hayward has signed his contract.  The projected cap decreasing by $3 million over the course of a season has created a small bind.

Oh, I agree with you. I think at least two of Rozier / Smart / AB / Jae are gone. I would speculate AB and Marcus.

But, it's fun to brainstorm options.

I think Danny loves AB too much, we'll see.

He loves him, but I don't think we'll resign him next year.

I agree.  But Danny will want to squeeze as much juice out of the orange as possible first.  Have a great 2017-18 season with AB on board, and then sign-and-trade him next summer.  No need to lose him now and not get those last few drops of sweetness.

I know that in a sign-and-trade we won't get as much in return (and there's a risk we lose him for nothing) but teams know right now that he's a potential one-year rental so we may not get much for him as is.

[jrfitz06]

So everyone seem to be missing this critical piece of information so its being reported everywhere that the deal for Hayward is for 4 years and $128 Million. 

Per the CBA the max deal for Hayward would be 30% of the cap and then 8% raises every year after so if we work that out .30 * $99,093,000 = $29,727,900 for year 1.  Year 2 would be $29,727,900*1.08= $32,106,132. Year 3 would be $32,106,132*1.08 = 34,674,623.   And finally Year 4 would be 34,674,623*1.08= $37,448,593 so the breakdown is:

Year 1 = $29,727,900
Year 2 = $32,106,132
Year 3 = $34,674,623
Year 4 = $37,448,593
Total = $133,957,248

So to me that means Hayward is taking a little less than max I did the numbers in reverse and came up with $28,500,000 for Year 1. Year 2 would be $28,500,000*1.08= $30,780,000.  Year 3 would be $30,780,000*1.08=$33,242,400. Year 4 would be $33,242,400*1.08=$35,901,792 so the breakdown is:

Year 1 = $28,500,000
Year 2 = $30,780,000
Year 3 = $33,242,400
Year 4 = $35,901,792
Total = $128,424,192

So it looks like Hayward is taking a little less than the max around $28,500,000 so if that is the case we wont need to trade any of smart/bradley/crowder!!!!

Hayward = $28,500,000
Horford   = $27,734,405
Bradley   = $8,808,989
Crowder = $6,796,117
Thomas  = $6,261,395
Tatum     = $5,645,400
Brown    = $4,956,480
Smart    = $4,538,020
Zizic       = $1,645,200
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615

Total  = $98,148,466

So all that needs to be done is Renounce Green, Young, Olynyk, Jerebko.  Waive Mickey and Trade Rozier and Jackson and we are good to go.  If there is any flaw in my math please let me know.

[keevsnick]

So everyone seem to be missing this critical piece of information so its being reported everywhere that the deal for Hayward is for 4 years and $128 Million. 

Per the CBA the max deal for Hayward would be 30% of the cap and then 8% raises every year after so if we work that out .30 * $99,093,000 = $29,727,900 for year 1.  Year 2 would be $29,727,900*1.08= $32,106,132. Year 3 would be $32,106,132*1.08 = 34,674,623.   And finally Year 4 would be 34,674,623*1.08= $37,448,593 so the breakdown is:

Year 1 = $29,727,900
Year 2 = $32,106,132
Year 3 = $34,674,623
Year 4 = $37,448,593
Total = $133,957,248

So to me that means Hayward is taking a little less than max I did the numbers in reverse and came up with $28,500,000 for Year 1. Year 2 would be $28,500,000*1.08= $30,780,000.  Year 3 would be $30,780,000*1.08=$33,242,400. Year 4 would be $33,242,400*1.08=$35,901,792 so the breakdown is:

Year 1 = $28,500,000
Year 2 = $30,780,000
Year 3 = $33,242,400
Year 4 = $35,901,792
Total = $128,424,192

So it looks like Hayward is taking a little less than the max around $28,500,000 so if that is the case we wont need to trade any of smart/bradley/crowder!!!!

Hayward = $28,500,000
Horford   = $27,734,405
Bradley   = $8,808,989
Crowder = $6,796,117
Thomas  = $6,261,395
Tatum     = $5,645,400
Brown    = $4,956,480
Smart    = $4,538,020
Zizic       = $1,645,200
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615

Total  = $98,148,466

So all that needs to be done is Renounce Green, Young, Olynyk, Jerebko.  Waive Mickey and Trade Rozier and Jackson and we are good to go.  If there is any flaw in my math please let me know.

Nope, haywards max is as follows: 

$29,727,900
$31,214,295
$32,700,690
$34,187,085 (Player Option)

We can only give 5% raises

[keevsnick]

So everyone seem to be missing this critical piece of information so its being reported everywhere that the deal for Hayward is for 4 years and $128 Million. 

Per the CBA the max deal for Hayward would be 30% of the cap and then 8% raises every year after so if we work that out .30 * $99,093,000 = $29,727,900 for year 1.  Year 2 would be $29,727,900*1.08= $32,106,132. Year 3 would be $32,106,132*1.08 = 34,674,623.   And finally Year 4 would be 34,674,623*1.08= $37,448,593 so the breakdown is:

Year 1 = $29,727,900
Year 2 = $32,106,132
Year 3 = $34,674,623
Year 4 = $37,448,593
Total = $133,957,248

So to me that means Hayward is taking a little less than max I did the numbers in reverse and came up with $28,500,000 for Year 1. Year 2 would be $28,500,000*1.08= $30,780,000.  Year 3 would be $30,780,000*1.08=$33,242,400. Year 4 would be $33,242,400*1.08=$35,901,792 so the breakdown is:

Year 1 = $28,500,000
Year 2 = $30,780,000
Year 3 = $33,242,400
Year 4 = $35,901,792
Total = $128,424,192

So it looks like Hayward is taking a little less than the max around $28,500,000 so if that is the case we wont need to trade any of smart/bradley/crowder!!!!

Hayward = $28,500,000
Horford   = $27,734,405
Bradley   = $8,808,989
Crowder = $6,796,117
Thomas  = $6,261,395
Tatum     = $5,645,400
Brown    = $4,956,480
Smart    = $4,538,020
Zizic       = $1,645,200
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615

Total  = $98,148,466

So all that needs to be done is Renounce Green, Young, Olynyk, Jerebko.  Waive Mickey and Trade Rozier and Jackson and we are good to go.  If there is any flaw in my math please let me know.

Nope, haywards max is as follows: 

$29,727,900
$31,214,295
$32,700,690
$34,187,085 (Player Option)

We can only give 5% raises

Its the jazz who could offer 8% raises. That and the extra year is the financial advtage incumbent teams have.

[Celtics4ever]

Oh, I agree with you. I think at least two of Rozier / Smart / AB / Jae are gone. I would speculate AB and Marcus.

Crowder is redundant and has griped about fans wanting Hayward over him.  Hayward is now here and will take his job.   Time to swap out Jae for a PF prospect.  He is making $6,796,117.  We need a guy making about 5 to make things work.

[Bobshot]

So everyone seem to be missing this critical piece of information so its being reported everywhere that the deal for Hayward is for 4 years and $128 Million. 

Per the CBA the max deal for Hayward would be 30% of the cap and then 8% raises every year after so if we work that out .30 * $99,093,000 = $29,727,900 for year 1.  Year 2 would be $29,727,900*1.08= $32,106,132. Year 3 would be $32,106,132*1.08 = 34,674,623.   And finally Year 4 would be 34,674,623*1.08= $37,448,593 so the breakdown is:

Year 1 = $29,727,900
Year 2 = $32,106,132
Year 3 = $34,674,623
Year 4 = $37,448,593
Total = $133,957,248

So to me that means Hayward is taking a little less than max I did the numbers in reverse and came up with $28,500,000 for Year 1. Year 2 would be $28,500,000*1.08= $30,780,000.  Year 3 would be $30,780,000*1.08=$33,242,400. Year 4 would be $33,242,400*1.08=$35,901,792 so the breakdown is:

Year 1 = $28,500,000
Year 2 = $30,780,000
Year 3 = $33,242,400
Year 4 = $35,901,792
Total = $128,424,192

So it looks like Hayward is taking a little less than the max around $28,500,000 so if that is the case we wont need to trade any of smart/bradley/crowder!!!!

Hayward = $28,500,000
Horford   = $27,734,405
Bradley   = $8,808,989
Crowder = $6,796,117
Thomas  = $6,261,395
Tatum     = $5,645,400
Brown    = $4,956,480
Smart    = $4,538,020
Zizic       = $1,645,200
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615

Total  = $98,148,466

So all that needs to be done is Renounce Green, Young, Olynyk, Jerebko.  Waive Mickey and Trade Rozier and Jackson and we are good to go.  If there is any flaw in my math please let me know.

Yeah. $98M is what I came out with , dropping Rozier, etc and not counting Zizic.

I figure maybe Hayward will shave his salary, at least year 1, so they don't have to cut or trade their core.

The whole idea is to get to the finals.

There is such a disparity between him, Horford and the others on salary, you figure both he and Horford will give a little for the team.

[jrfitz06]

So everyone seem to be missing this critical piece of information so its being reported everywhere that the deal for Hayward is for 4 years and $128 Million. 

Per the CBA the max deal for Hayward would be 30% of the cap and then 8% raises every year after so if we work that out .30 * $99,093,000 = $29,727,900 for year 1.  Year 2 would be $29,727,900*1.08= $32,106,132. Year 3 would be $32,106,132*1.08 = 34,674,623.   And finally Year 4 would be 34,674,623*1.08= $37,448,593 so the breakdown is:

Year 1 = $29,727,900
Year 2 = $32,106,132
Year 3 = $34,674,623
Year 4 = $37,448,593
Total = $133,957,248

So to me that means Hayward is taking a little less than max I did the numbers in reverse and came up with $28,500,000 for Year 1. Year 2 would be $28,500,000*1.08= $30,780,000.  Year 3 would be $30,780,000*1.08=$33,242,400. Year 4 would be $33,242,400*1.08=$35,901,792 so the breakdown is:

Year 1 = $28,500,000
Year 2 = $30,780,000
Year 3 = $33,242,400
Year 4 = $35,901,792
Total = $128,424,192

So it looks like Hayward is taking a little less than the max around $28,500,000 so if that is the case we wont need to trade any of smart/bradley/crowder!!!!

Hayward = $28,500,000
Horford   = $27,734,405
Bradley   = $8,808,989
Crowder = $6,796,117
Thomas  = $6,261,395
Tatum     = $5,645,400
Brown    = $4,956,480
Smart    = $4,538,020
Zizic       = $1,645,200
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615

Total  = $98,148,466

So all that needs to be done is Renounce Green, Young, Olynyk, Jerebko.  Waive Mickey and Trade Rozier and Jackson and we are good to go.  If there is any flaw in my math please let me know.

Nope, haywards max is as follows: 

$29,727,900
$31,214,295
$32,700,690
$34,187,085 (Player Option)

We can only give 5% raises

Shoot your completely right I just re-read the CBA and 8% is only for if he re-sign with his original team.  Well there goes that idea lol.

[Roy H.]

So everyone seem to be missing this critical piece of information so its being reported everywhere that the deal for Hayward is for 4 years and $128 Million. 

Per the CBA the max deal for Hayward would be 30% of the cap and then 8% raises every year after so if we work that out .30 * $99,093,000 = $29,727,900 for year 1.  Year 2 would be $29,727,900*1.08= $32,106,132. Year 3 would be $32,106,132*1.08 = 34,674,623.   And finally Year 4 would be 34,674,623*1.08= $37,448,593 so the breakdown is:

Year 1 = $29,727,900
Year 2 = $32,106,132
Year 3 = $34,674,623
Year 4 = $37,448,593
Total = $133,957,248

So to me that means Hayward is taking a little less than max I did the numbers in reverse and came up with $28,500,000 for Year 1. Year 2 would be $28,500,000*1.08= $30,780,000.  Year 3 would be $30,780,000*1.08=$33,242,400. Year 4 would be $33,242,400*1.08=$35,901,792 so the breakdown is:

Year 1 = $28,500,000
Year 2 = $30,780,000
Year 3 = $33,242,400
Year 4 = $35,901,792
Total = $128,424,192

So it looks like Hayward is taking a little less than the max around $28,500,000 so if that is the case we wont need to trade any of smart/bradley/crowder!!!!

Hayward = $28,500,000
Horford   = $27,734,405
Bradley   = $8,808,989
Crowder = $6,796,117
Thomas  = $6,261,395
Tatum     = $5,645,400
Brown    = $4,956,480
Smart    = $4,538,020
Zizic       = $1,645,200
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615

Total  = $98,148,466

So all that needs to be done is Renounce Green, Young, Olynyk, Jerebko.  Waive Mickey and Trade Rozier and Jackson and we are good to go.  If there is any flaw in my math please let me know.

A couple mistakes here:

1. The Celtics can only offer a 5% raise;

2. Raises are up to 5% of the first year value of the the contract each year. So, if a contract paid $10m in the first year, the player could get a $500k raise each year.

[kraidstar]

So everyone seem to be missing this critical piece of information so its being reported everywhere that the deal for Hayward is for 4 years and $128 Million. 

Per the CBA the max deal for Hayward would be 30% of the cap and then 8% raises every year after so if we work that out .30 * $99,093,000 = $29,727,900 for year 1.  Year 2 would be $29,727,900*1.08= $32,106,132. Year 3 would be $32,106,132*1.08 = 34,674,623.   And finally Year 4 would be 34,674,623*1.08= $37,448,593 so the breakdown is:

Year 1 = $29,727,900
Year 2 = $32,106,132
Year 3 = $34,674,623
Year 4 = $37,448,593
Total = $133,957,248

So to me that means Hayward is taking a little less than max I did the numbers in reverse and came up with $28,500,000 for Year 1. Year 2 would be $28,500,000*1.08= $30,780,000.  Year 3 would be $30,780,000*1.08=$33,242,400. Year 4 would be $33,242,400*1.08=$35,901,792 so the breakdown is:

Year 1 = $28,500,000
Year 2 = $30,780,000
Year 3 = $33,242,400
Year 4 = $35,901,792
Total = $128,424,192

So it looks like Hayward is taking a little less than the max around $28,500,000 so if that is the case we wont need to trade any of smart/bradley/crowder!!!!

Hayward = $28,500,000
Horford   = $27,734,405
Bradley   = $8,808,989
Crowder = $6,796,117
Thomas  = $6,261,395
Tatum     = $5,645,400
Brown    = $4,956,480
Smart    = $4,538,020
Zizic       = $1,645,200
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615
Min        = $815,615

Total  = $98,148,466

So all that needs to be done is Renounce Green, Young, Olynyk, Jerebko.  Waive Mickey and Trade Rozier and Jackson and we are good to go.  If there is any flaw in my math please let me know.

Nope, haywards max is as follows: 

$29,727,900
$31,214,295
$32,700,690
$34,187,085 (Player Option)

We can only give 5% raises

Shoot your completely right I just re-read the CBA and 8% is only for if he re-sign with his original team.  Well there goes that idea lol.

Yup. And unfortunately the new CBA makes it so teams can't give players that 8% raise/5-year contract benefits via a sign-and-trade. So Utah couldn't help us out there.