No need to trade one of Smart/Crowder/Bradley in order to sign Hayward

[GreenEnvy]

Would Demetrius Jackson's $500K count against the cap if we cut him?

If so, that number jumps up to nearly $800K away from max, which means we have to make a trade.

[Jvalin]

Would Demetrius Jackson's $500K count against the cap if we cut him?

If so, that number jumps up to nearly $800K away from max, which means we have to make a trade.

Jackson has $650K guaranteed if not waived on or before 7/15/17. If we cut him, the $650K counts against the cap. If we trade him for salary relief we pay him nothing. Problem is, we may have to pair him with a mid/late second rounder to get the job done.

[Darío SpanishFan]

TP Jvalin, mate you have become an invaluable asset for the forums. Thanks for teaching us, along with Salt, Roy and others.

[keevsnick]

I agree it's not out of the realm of possibility that Hayward takes a 280K pay cut, but the other thing we have to consider is that maybe the Celtics are fine moving on from Smart. If we moved Smarts money that would allow us to keep Rozier and bring over Yabuselle too. Rozier has an extra year of team control at dirt cheap money which makes him valuable to Boston. Yabuselle may nt want to sit out another year, and is a big body we could use. Smart could bring back a decent asset (late first, early second) in a trade.

[droopdog7]

Would Demetrius Jackson's $500K count against the cap if we cut him?

If so, that number jumps up to nearly $800K away from max, which means we have to make a trade.

Jackson has $650K guaranteed if not waived on or before 7/15/17. If we cut him, the $650K counts against the cap. If we trade him for salary relief we pay him nothing. Problem is, we may have to pair him with a mid/late second rounder to get the job done.

Thats the thing. The estimate being floated on this thread are making some assumptions that may not be so easy to pull off.  They are already assuming that Jackson and Rozier are gone with nothing coming back.  Fact is, we STILL need to pull that off before we even get to the 200k figure.  Or, I suppose we could recoup all the money we need in a trade of crowder, Bradley, or smart and not need to shed Rozier or Jackson.

[mmmmm]

Would Demetrius Jackson's $500K count against the cap if we cut him?

If so, that number jumps up to nearly $800K away from max, which means we have to make a trade.

Jackson has $650K guaranteed if not waived on or before 7/15/17. If we cut him, the $650K counts against the cap. If we trade him for salary relief we pay him nothing. Problem is, we may have to pair him with a mid/late second rounder to get the job done.

An additional nuance is that, if we cut him while we are at 12 contracted players or less (which is the current situation) we would also need an empty roster charge of 816K for the vacated roster slot.

Which means that, while in the long run waiving Jackson would reduce actual salary by 734K, in the short term, waiving him actually eats into our cap space by 82K.

So the only way to open cap space with DJ's contract is to trade it.     But as the math shows, that by itself is not enough.  You have to get rid of DJ's, Mickeys _and_ Rozier's contracts without taking in any, stash Yabu and you then still need Hayward to agree to a tiny discount.   Dumping a contract for cap space usually costs you a draft pick.   Probably a late second rounder for DJ's, though Rozier might have enough value to get you a modest pick back in return.   But it's a lot of separate things that have to happen to make it work this way.

Ultimately, all paths keep leading back to the fact that Danny's going to need to move one or two of AB/JC/MS.   Moving just one of those contracts -- and those are all very tradable players -- solves his problem.  In fact, if he moves AB or Jae, then he possibly can even choose to not stash Yabusele.

You also have to look at the fact that Danny ultimately has to deal with the fact that both AB & Marcus are up for new contracts next summer.   It can make extra sense to pro-actively deal one of them now.

[kozlodoev]

Would Demetrius Jackson's $500K count against the cap if we cut him?

If so, that number jumps up to nearly $800K away from max, which means we have to make a trade.

Jackson has $650K guaranteed if not waived on or before 7/15/17. If we cut him, the $650K counts against the cap. If we trade him for salary relief we pay him nothing. Problem is, we may have to pair him with a mid/late second rounder to get the job done.

An additional nuance is that, if we cut him while we are at 12 contracted players or less (which is the current situation) we would also need an empty roster charge of 816K for the vacated roster slot.

Which means that, while in the long run waiving Jackson would reduce actual salary by 734K, in the short term, waiving him actually eats into our cap space by 82K.

Well, there has been an ongoing discussion about whether this hold is available to count against the salary of the actual 12th player signed (which would make sense). I don't think we reached a definitive answer on this.

[ThaPreacher]

Would Demetrius Jackson's $500K count against the cap if we cut him?

If so, that number jumps up to nearly $800K away from max, which means we have to make a trade.

Jackson has $650K guaranteed if not waived on or before 7/15/17. If we cut him, the $650K counts against the cap. If we trade him for salary relief we pay him nothing. Problem is, we may have to pair him with a mid/late second rounder to get the job done.

An additional nuance is that, if we cut him while we are at 12 contracted players or less (which is the current situation) we would also need an empty roster charge of 816K for the vacated roster slot.

Which means that, while in the long run waiving Jackson would reduce actual salary by 734K, in the short term, waiving him actually eats into our cap space by 82K.

Well, there has been an ongoing discussion about whether this hold is available to count against the salary of the actual 12th player signed (which would make sense). I don't think we reached a definitive answer on this.

Alot of good points on this thread.  However, its really a moot point. The Celtics as presently  constructed cannot compete with Cleveland or  GS. There was an overwhelming need up front last year with (Zeller, Amir and KO) all on board. There is even more of a need now.  Zizic is probably headed for some D league action.  Ainge will deal a combination of players.  Likely this will be determined by what is offered, and what he can get back.  But Boston is clearing cap space.

I'm sure he'd like to keep Crowder, Bradley and Smart. We already know of his fondness for Rozier. I think he actually rates Rozier higher than most people on Celticsblog do.

I would expect that its, going to be Smart/Crowder/Jackson in some type of combination.
I'm thinking that he will revisit some of the vets at minimum that he released.  Alot will determine by how the market plays out.

Crowder always has been a role player as is Smart. Bradley is a starter/6th man and invaluable.
The problem with losing Smart is that he is a gamer!  Probably the toughest Celtic we have.

Wonder who comes back in a trade?

[saltlover]

Would Demetrius Jackson's $500K count against the cap if we cut him?

If so, that number jumps up to nearly $800K away from max, which means we have to make a trade.

Jackson has $650K guaranteed if not waived on or before 7/15/17. If we cut him, the $650K counts against the cap. If we trade him for salary relief we pay him nothing. Problem is, we may have to pair him with a mid/late second rounder to get the job done.

An additional nuance is that, if we cut him while we are at 12 contracted players or less (which is the current situation) we would also need an empty roster charge of 816K for the vacated roster slot.

Which means that, while in the long run waiving Jackson would reduce actual salary by 734K, in the short term, waiving him actually eats into our cap space by 82K.

Well, there has been an ongoing discussion about whether this hold is available to count against the salary of the actual 12th player signed (which would make sense). I don't think we reached a definitive answer on this.

I think the OP has conceded that, in fact, you need that extra cap hold.  I would also point out that ZERO national basketball pundits who are familiar with the salary cap have suggested that trading Rozier and Jackson is an option (at least, not since the final cap number was released).  You'd think if it were possible one of them would, if for no other reason than to write something different from everyone else.

[mmmmm]

Would Demetrius Jackson's $500K count against the cap if we cut him?

If so, that number jumps up to nearly $800K away from max, which means we have to make a trade.

Jackson has $650K guaranteed if not waived on or before 7/15/17. If we cut him, the $650K counts against the cap. If we trade him for salary relief we pay him nothing. Problem is, we may have to pair him with a mid/late second rounder to get the job done.

An additional nuance is that, if we cut him while we are at 12 contracted players or less (which is the current situation) we would also need an empty roster charge of 816K for the vacated roster slot.

Which means that, while in the long run waiving Jackson would reduce actual salary by 734K, in the short term, waiving him actually eats into our cap space by 82K.

Well, there has been an ongoing discussion about whether this hold is available to count against the salary of the actual 12th player signed (which would make sense). I don't think we reached a definitive answer on this.

Right now, prior to officially signing Hayward, we have 11 players on contract (9 of them fully guaranteed, one partially guaranteed and one non-guaranteed).   There is a roster charge for each player fewer than 12.

So there is no discussion.  There is a roster charge cap hold associated with Demetrius' roster slot, should he be waived and the slot thus vacated.  Even signing Hayward would not change that because that would only bring us back to 11, should DJ have been waived.

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

Can we use cash consideration s to pay someone to take DJ's salary. We have done it before right?

[Moranis]

I still think Crowder for O'Quinn would make a lot of sense for both the Knicks and Celtics.  Randle (from the Knicks) would need to go a 3rd team to make the numbers work, but I think that would be doable. 

[BudweiserCeltic]

I still think Crowder for O'Quinn would make a lot of sense for both the Knicks and Celtics.  Randle (from the Knicks) would need to go a 3rd team to make the numbers work, but I think that would be doable. 

I don't think the idea behind trading any of those guys is to just dump him.

[blackbird]

Everything I read yesterday said that waiving everybody and dumping Rozier with nothing in return still leaves the Celtics $1M short of being able to offer a max contract. Never mind that Ainge is not the type to dump a useful player for cap space alone.

Considering that Rozier's salary is $2M, I read that statistic to mean that the Celtics need to clear $3M in salary. If we are getting a player or players back, then that means we have to send out at least $15M in salary to take back $12M, due to the 125% rule.

Bradley ($8.8M) and Crowder ($6.8M) get us there, and the salaries of Mickey and Jackson can be added as needed. That gives a target of $12.5M to $14.8M for returning player(s). There are surprisingly few players in that range by themselves, but obviously we could get more than one player in return.

Of the individual players with salaries in that range, the most interesting/plausible are: Tyson Chandler, Gorgui Dieng, Kenneth Faried, Eric Gordon, Robin Lopez and Marvin Williams.

But the truth is I don't understand the salary cap or trade rules at all, so maybe I wrong about all of this! 

[ashanm10]

is there a possibility to pay the luxury tax?

which players could stay if that was the case?

how much would it cost?