Roy's not happy with Ainge right now. If we miss on Hayward, the forum may be shut down for a day or two...
And all things considered, I agree. If I'm understanding correctly, Boston chose not to trade #3 for Butler; Smart, Crowder, and multiple non-lotto firsts for George. If true, that's pretty reckless.
is there any proof that is exactly what we offered? suppose PG bailed?
this is the part that blows my mind...
why are so many people ok with a rental of pg?
if he walks then we're left without smart crowder and probably the memphis pick(underrated pick)
i'm SO FREAKING GLAD danny is our gm
You act like I'm stating a desire for an impulsive, win-now move. It's clear to any one with a brain that you don't make the move without PG signing an extension, or a strong guarantee that he'd re-sign. Clearly there are moving parts. But if a concerted effort wasn't made to snag PG/Butler, or a reasonable offer was turned down, then that very well could've been a mistake. It's also entirely possible that four straight top-5 picks could not result in a player of their caliber.
That's the thing: it's incredibly unlikely that any of our young core / draft picks ever become as good as Paul George. It's virtually a certainty that none of Smart, Crowder and late firsts reach that level.
Championships are so rare that you have to take small / moderate risks. I get not wanting to deal a top-5 pick. I don't understand not being willing to trade role players for a superstar.
I don't see any evidence that Danny was unwilling to trade role players for a superstar. In fact the rumor was that he was willing to send Crowder plus one other _starter_ plus non-lottery pick(s) for George.
But he wasn't willing to do so before he first finished his business with Hayward. And that makes perfect sense because he can't do anything but cap-neutral moves until he knows whether he's going to sign Hayward.
It seems to me that some fans are confusing Danny needing to do things in a particular order (in order to manage his cap space) with "hesitation".
Perhaps some are, but we're not. Boston been clamoring for years to land top tier talent. When one becomes available, you do all you can to facilitate it -- ensure a contingency plan with Chi/Indy for post-hypothetical Hayward signing; related, be willing to modestly overpay (both returns were underwhelming); have evidence for Chi/Indy that Hayward is likely to sign with a Butler/PG addition in place, etc. Point is that hesitation may/may not have been a contributing factor, but it shouldn't have been.
Uh? You have no way of knowing what offers were proposed. For all you know Danny _did_ make an 'overpay' offer contingent on IND waiting for Hayward to make his decision. Whether he did or didn't seems irrelevant because the offer they impatiently jumped on makes even the most modest offer Danny was rumored to put out there seem like an overpay by comparison.
It seems very clear that IND simply wasn't willing to wait in order to get a better return.
They were willing to wait, so long as they had a commitment. They're waiting right now.
And, yes, we do know within reasonable parameters what the offers were. Woj, Lowe and others have made it clear that the cost was pretty minimal (Crowder, Smart, non-lottery picks).
You keep harping on this Crowder-Smart deal, but that deal doesn't work for the salary cap after a Hayward signing. So it wasn't really an option, unless Ainge was going to send along Bradley or Brown anyway just because the salaries have to match.
Yes, I expect there was a concurrent side deal to bring it into cap compliance.
Or, Woj, Lowe and others were completely wrong.
So stop saying it was just Crowder and Smart if you KNOW it had to be more than that.
Mike
It doesn't have to be more than that going to Indiana.
Either Indiana would have to give something to a third team or that team would have to give something to Indiana, because that's how 3-way trades work.
Right, like a top-55 protected pick.
Wrong. An unprotected 2nd round pick is the minimum pick that can be offered in 3-way trades (well, unprotected for a season -- the pick has to convey eventually.)
Then $750k cash. It's not much of a hurdle.
It's still more complex than you were pretending it to be. Who's paying who $750k? Indiana, or the team helping out? It can't be the Celtics.
It's really not all that complex. A $750k cash payout is peanuts, especially if we're sending a team a player they want to balance salaries.
This is officially called picking at nits. The reported trade discussions that Woj, Lowe and others reported could have been easily accomplished. Either that, or Danny was just talking trade because he was bored.
No. It could have been easily accomplished if Ainge was willing to give away Avery Bradley for free to another team. But that would make the deal Bradley-Crowder-Smart and picks for George, which is NOT something that was ever reported.
Only the Indiana return was being reported, by multiple reliable sources.
And why would we get nothing for AB? We were talking about trading him for the #7 pick on draft night.
Lastly, why run with a Woj report about Okafor being in a S&T that will result in Jae Crowder being dealt like it's fact -- building assumption upon assumption -- but on the George reporting you act like Woj is an amateur?
My assumption was that your favored deal of Crowder+Smart was something that Pritchard was proposing for last week, and Ainge said no because it would block Hayward. I saw nothing from Woj nor Lowe that indicated otherwise. You're the one assuming that Ainge should have agreed to that deal in contingency. When I said that deal wouldn't work for the salary cap, you said they could just find a third team. And now you're assuming that the third team would give us fair value when they know we can't get Paul George without them, and that they have to hold open the cap space for a week while we wait on Hayward (because we don't need their help if Hayward signs elsewhere since there aren't cap concerns). And you're the one assuming that Woj just left this minor detail out?
I'm honestly confused. I think you've argued yourself past seeing reason on this one.
My position is that Ainge told Pritchard the only deal he could agree to in contingency was Crowder+Bradley, because that's what would work for sure with the cap, and Pritchard wanted something else that Ainge couldn't agree to on June 30th. And you're saying it should have been simple, but the only way that could be is if Ainge moved Bradley at a significant discount.
Topic: What is the reason for the relative lack of interest in coming to the Celtics? (Read 20055 times)