Why Should Boston HELP Cleveland Facilitate A 3-Team Deal???

[Phantom255x]

I've seen a lot of threads and posts under threads that say we should be involved in the 3-team deal that gets us value from future picks/young players.

BUT I fail to see why this team, a Top-3 team in the East, considered 6th/7th best in the ENTIRE NBA, would help out their big nemesis, Cleveland.

The premise of most deals seems to be something like CLE-IND-BOS, with C's sending the 2018 Nets Pick + future picks/players and acquiring Love, while the Cavaliers get Paul George.

Paul George is WAY, WAY BETTER than Kevin Love.

What does everyone in the C's locker room think if the C's do this kind of deal?? Congrats, you improved the team some more by adding Love! But you also pretty much facilitated a move that gave the real threat in the East, Cleveland, a player by the name of Paul George... 

I know the C's did a 3-team deal years ago which ultimately got Lebron to Cleveland, BUT back then, they didn't have a Horford, or Isaiah, and AB was still a big unknown, and they were clearly rebuilding/tanking and trying to accumulate as many assets as they could. WAY different.

I'm not saying that adding Fultz + Hayward (possibly), and the Cavaliers doing nothing means the C's are guaranteed to beat CLE next season, but facilitating a deal to get PG13 to Cleveland, even for just a year, seems ridiculous to me from Boston's side. I don't think Ainge would ever consider it.

He even said, he's not trading picks/players (or in his words, "punting") for players who are only 5-10% upgrades from some of the current guys, and frankly I don't think Love is THAT much better than say, Horford.

And similar arguments could be made for facilitating deals like this involving, say, DeMarcus Cousins...

[Roy H.]

I'm with you there. There's no need to add a win now player if in the process we're going to make Cleveland better.

Facilitating a deal only makes sense if:

1) The move is inevitable, and we're improving our team (i.e., helping Cleveland sign Lebron);

2) Both teams improve, but we improve more;

3) The gap widens in the short term, but closes in the near future.

The hypothetical trade does none of that, and sets us back both short term and long term.

[Phantom255x]

I'm with you there. There's no need to add a win now player if in the process we're going to make Cleveland better.

Facilitating a deal only makes sense if:

1) The move is inevitable, and we're improving our team (i.e., helping Cleveland sign Lebron);

2) Both teams improve, but we improve more;

3) The gap widens in the short term, but closes in the near future.

The hypothetical trade does none of that, and sets us back both short term and long term.

Yep. And if it's another ECF between CLE-BOS with CLE having George.. and George kills us, that would be real awkward LOL.

[Celtics4ever]

We should not doing anything to help CLE period.  They are the enemy.  If they get desperate then we will get a better deal from them should we choose to deal with them.

[Phantom255x]

We should not doing anything to help CLE period.  They are the enemy.  If they get desperate then we will get a better deal from them should we choose to deal with them.

My thoughts exactly

[PAOBoston]

If I'm Cleveland and I'm trying to retool, wouldn't it be trying to add PG13 to Lebron/Irving/Love instead of replacing Love with PG13?

Honestly, I would have an issue being involved in a deal like this assuming it makes sense for the C's. If they can somehow get Love after possibly getting Hayward, the C's would have a pretty darn good team.

[colincb]

The premise of a 3-way deal between BOS-CLE-IND is that the Pacers will not want Love if they are rebuilding, else they would do a straight swap. If true, then they will be looking for young players and maybe a pick. Tossing out the following 3-way (there are others, but this one works in ESPN's trade machine):

CLE -> BOS: Love ($21.2 MM)
IND -> CLE: George ($18.3 MM)
BOS -> IND: Crowder, Jackson, Rozier, Smart, Zeller $22.7MM ($13.9 MM Guaranteed)

I would say BOS has improved much more than CLE.

As to the claim that George is way, way better than Love, that is not supported by the numbers. Love's net rating per 100 possessions is +10 vs +6 for George and Love's career PER is 21.9 vs 18.5 for George. George is the better defensive player and arguably, a better all-around player, but it is hardly a slam duck. OTOH, Love is dramatically better than what we would give up and he fits a huge need in our frontcourt. We would also have about $19 MM left to pursue a second tier FA assuming we renounce KO, leave Yabu overseas, and have a cap of $101MM.

The biggest problem is that I doubt CLE would want us as a third party.

[Surferdad]

The premise of a 3-way deal between BOS-CLE-IND is that the Pacers will not want Love if they are rebuilding, else they would do a straight swap. If true, then they will be looking for young players and maybe a pick. Tossing out the following 3-way (there are others, but this one works in ESPN's trade machine):

CLE -> BOS: Love ($21.2 MM)
IND -> CLE: George ($18.3 MM)
BOS -> IND: Crowder, Jackson, Rozier, Smart, Zeller $22.7MM ($13.9 MM Guaranteed)

I would say BOS has improved much more than CLE.

As to the claim that George is way, way better than Love, that is not supported by the numbers. Love's net rating per 100 possessions is +10 vs +6 for George and Love's career PER is 21.9 vs 18.5 for George. George is the better defensive player and arguably, a better all-around player, but it is hardly a slam duck. OTOH, Love is dramatically better than what we would give up and he fits a huge need in our frontcourt. We would also have about $19 MM left to pursue a second tier FA assuming we renounce KO, leave Yabu overseas, and have a cap of $101MM.

The biggest problem is that I doubt CLE would want us as a third party.

Presumably there are at least several #1 picks coming back to Indy, I recall it rumored that Bird previously wanted 4 #1 picks.

[colincb]

The premise of a 3-way deal between BOS-CLE-IND is that the Pacers will not want Love if they are rebuilding, else they would do a straight swap. If true, then they will be looking for young players and maybe a pick. Tossing out the following 3-way (there are others, but this one works in ESPN's trade machine):

CLE -> BOS: Love ($21.2 MM)
IND -> CLE: George ($18.3 MM)
BOS -> IND: Crowder, Jackson, Rozier, Smart, Zeller $22.7MM ($13.9 MM Guaranteed)

I would say BOS has improved much more than CLE.

As to the claim that George is way, way better than Love, that is not supported by the numbers. Love's net rating per 100 possessions is +10 vs +6 for George and Love's career PER is 21.9 vs 18.5 for George. George is the better defensive player and arguably, a better all-around player, but it is hardly a slam duck. OTOH, Love is dramatically better than what we would give up and he fits a huge need in our frontcourt. We would also have about $19 MM left to pursue a second tier FA assuming we renounce KO, leave Yabu overseas, and have a cap of $101MM.

The biggest problem is that I doubt CLE would want us as a third party.

Presumably there are at least several #1 picks coming back to Indy, I recall it rumored that Bird previously wanted 4 #1 picks.

Do you honestly think Bird believed he could get 4 #1 picks for a guy with one year left before free agency?

[Surferdad]

The premise of a 3-way deal between BOS-CLE-IND is that the Pacers will not want Love if they are rebuilding, else they would do a straight swap. If true, then they will be looking for young players and maybe a pick. Tossing out the following 3-way (there are others, but this one works in ESPN's trade machine):

CLE -> BOS: Love ($21.2 MM)
IND -> CLE: George ($18.3 MM)
BOS -> IND: Crowder, Jackson, Rozier, Smart, Zeller $22.7MM ($13.9 MM Guaranteed)

I would say BOS has improved much more than CLE.

As to the claim that George is way, way better than Love, that is not supported by the numbers. Love's net rating per 100 possessions is +10 vs +6 for George and Love's career PER is 21.9 vs 18.5 for George. George is the better defensive player and arguably, a better all-around player, but it is hardly a slam duck. OTOH, Love is dramatically better than what we would give up and he fits a huge need in our frontcourt. We would also have about $19 MM left to pursue a second tier FA assuming we renounce KO, leave Yabu overseas, and have a cap of $101MM.

The biggest problem is that I doubt CLE would want us as a third party.

Presumably there are at least several #1 picks coming back to Indy, I recall it rumored that Bird previously wanted 4 #1 picks.

Do you honestly think Bird believed he could get 4 #1 picks for a guy with one year left before free agency?

Not really, just illustrating that good picks have to go back to Indy to complete the deal.

[Phantom255x]

The premise of a 3-way deal between BOS-CLE-IND is that the Pacers will not want Love if they are rebuilding, else they would do a straight swap. If true, then they will be looking for young players and maybe a pick. Tossing out the following 3-way (there are others, but this one works in ESPN's trade machine):

CLE -> BOS: Love ($21.2 MM)
IND -> CLE: George ($18.3 MM)
BOS -> IND: Crowder, Jackson, Rozier, Smart, Zeller $22.7MM ($13.9 MM Guaranteed)

I would say BOS has improved much more than CLE.

As to the claim that George is way, way better than Love, that is not supported by the numbers. Love's net rating per 100 possessions is +10 vs +6 for George and Love's career PER is 21.9 vs 18.5 for George. George is the better defensive player and arguably, a better all-around player, but it is hardly a slam duck. OTOH, Love is dramatically better than what we would give up and he fits a huge need in our frontcourt. We would also have about $19 MM left to pursue a second tier FA assuming we renounce KO, leave Yabu overseas, and have a cap of $101MM.

The biggest problem is that I doubt CLE would want us as a third party.

And I doubt we want to be their third party if it gets them Paul George.

[colincb]

The premise of a 3-way deal between BOS-CLE-IND is that the Pacers will not want Love if they are rebuilding, else they would do a straight swap. If true, then they will be looking for young players and maybe a pick. Tossing out the following 3-way (there are others, but this one works in ESPN's trade machine):

CLE -> BOS: Love ($21.2 MM)
IND -> CLE: George ($18.3 MM)
BOS -> IND: Crowder, Jackson, Rozier, Smart, Zeller $22.7MM ($13.9 MM Guaranteed)

I would say BOS has improved much more than CLE.

As to the claim that George is way, way better than Love, that is not supported by the numbers. Love's net rating per 100 possessions is +10 vs +6 for George and Love's career PER is 21.9 vs 18.5 for George. George is the better defensive player and arguably, a better all-around player, but it is hardly a slam duck. OTOH, Love is dramatically better than what we would give up and he fits a huge need in our frontcourt. We would also have about $19 MM left to pursue a second tier FA assuming we renounce KO, leave Yabu overseas, and have a cap of $101MM.

The biggest problem is that I doubt CLE would want us as a third party.

And I doubt we want to be their third party if it gets them Paul George.

If you believe the Cavs improve more than we do by such a deal, then you're right.

I don't agree. We're giving up scraps to get an all-star. They're making a lateral move.

[action781]

The premise of a 3-way deal between BOS-CLE-IND is that the Pacers will not want Love if they are rebuilding, else they would do a straight swap. If true, then they will be looking for young players and maybe a pick. Tossing out the following 3-way (there are others, but this one works in ESPN's trade machine):

CLE -> BOS: Love ($21.2 MM)
IND -> CLE: George ($18.3 MM)
BOS -> IND: Crowder, Jackson, Rozier, Smart, Zeller $22.7MM ($13.9 MM Guaranteed)

I would say BOS has improved much more than CLE.

As to the claim that George is way, way better than Love, that is not supported by the numbers. Love's net rating per 100 possessions is +10 vs +6 for George and Love's career PER is 21.9 vs 18.5 for George. George is the better defensive player and arguably, a better all-around player, but it is hardly a slam duck. OTOH, Love is dramatically better than what we would give up and he fits a huge need in our frontcourt. We would also have about $19 MM left to pursue a second tier FA assuming we renounce KO, leave Yabu overseas, and have a cap of $101MM.

The biggest problem is that I doubt CLE would want us as a third party.

And I doubt we want to be their third party if it gets them Paul George.

If you believe the Cavs improve more than we do by such a deal, then you're right.

I don't agree. We're giving up scraps to get an all-star. They're making a lateral move.

On the surface, this seems absolutely true.  But let's look at it deeper by looking at the new rosters:

Cleveland:
starters: Kyrie, JR Smith, Lebron, Paul George, Tristan Thompson
bench:  probably similar as this year

Boston:
starters:  IT, Avery Bradley, (second tier FA), Kevin Love, and Al Horford
bench:  arguably thinner than this year with loss of Smart, Rozier, KO while gaining Fultz, Zizic

Have we caught up to Cleveland at all in the race?  How is Love or Horford going to defend one of Clevelands 1-4 guys on the perimeter? 

I think while we may have upgraded our roster overall in talent, we haven't made up any ground against Cleveland (or GSW).  Not only that, but we've extended Cleveland's window by getting them a young-ish superstar.

[ETNCeltics]

I wouldn't trade the 2018 BRK pick for Kevin Love (or almost anyone else), unless it had protection, which is a deal the team on the other end couldn't do. That pick is potential gold.

PG is a better player than KL. Adding him to Lebron and Kyrie would probably reinvigorate Lebron and insure 3 years of dominance for CLE. They'd arguably have 3 of the 4 best players in the Eastern conference. Making this trade would make us definitively better than Atlanta, Toronto, DC, etc, but it wouldn't make us better than CLE.

If I'm Danny Ainge, I'm open to trades for one of my veterans, but there's no way I'm giving up a BRK pick as part of a trade for anything short of an elite player like AD.

[droopdog7]

The premise of a 3-way deal between BOS-CLE-IND is that the Pacers will not want Love if they are rebuilding, else they would do a straight swap. If true, then they will be looking for young players and maybe a pick. Tossing out the following 3-way (there are others, but this one works in ESPN's trade machine):

CLE -> BOS: Love ($21.2 MM)
IND -> CLE: George ($18.3 MM)
BOS -> IND: Crowder, Jackson, Rozier, Smart, Zeller $22.7MM ($13.9 MM Guaranteed)

I would say BOS has improved much more than CLE.

As to the claim that George is way, way better than Love, that is not supported by the numbers. Love's net rating per 100 possessions is +10 vs +6 for George and Love's career PER is 21.9 vs 18.5 for George. George is the better defensive player and arguably, a better all-around player, but it is hardly a slam duck. OTOH, Love is dramatically better than what we would give up and he fits a huge need in our frontcourt. We would also have about $19 MM left to pursue a second tier FA assuming we renounce KO, leave Yabu overseas, and have a cap of $101MM.

The biggest problem is that I doubt CLE would want us as a third party.

And I doubt we want to be their third party if it gets them Paul George.

If you believe the Cavs improve more than we do by such a deal, then you're right.

I don't agree. We're giving up scraps to get an all-star. They're making a lateral move.

Yeah, the proposed trade is not realistic.  Indiana did not get nearly enough and we have up roles players and wannabes and ended up with a "star".  Indians absolutely needs to get picks in this scenario.