Isaiah Thomas vs. Paul Pierce?

[jade88]

Which is the more talented scorer in your opinion.

After the season IT4 had, I feel like this is a fair question. Isaiah might be the best inside and out scorer we've ever had. He's a great shooter, incredible at going to the basket and scoring or getting fouled, and he just has a ton of tricks and moves to get his shot.

I watched all of Pierce's career, and I don't remember him ever being THIS good of a scorer. IT's numbers on his shooting splits and clutch percentage is staggering, but it's the way he does it.

So I may seem sacrilegious, but is Thomas the better scorer right now at his peak?

[CelticsElite]

Paul Pierce ended as the 15th top scorer in NBA history. He's around names like Olojuwon, Robertson,  and havlicek: http://www.espn.com/nba/history/leaders

[CELTICSofBOSTON]

Isaiah has higher scoring numbers this year than Pierce ever had.  However, I would assume there are more possessions per game then there were in 2005. 

IT's efficiency though is incredible.

[jade88]

Paul Pierce ended as the 15th top scorer in NBA history. He's around names like Olojuwon, Robertson,  and havlicek: http://www.espn.com/nba/history/leaders

Right, and I don't dare assume that Thomas can match the longevity of the Truth. I'm just talking pure skill.

[More Banners]

One thing we know for sure they have in common:  getting front teeth knocked out while in Celtics jersey. The rest is all speculation.

[GreenEnvy]

There's no denying a 29ppg season. This wasn't Linsanity for 6 weeks, but an entire NBA season culminating in a legendary 53-point playoff performance. This wasn't for a lottery team, but the top seed in their conference.

Pierce is my favorite player ever, but he never has the season IT just did. He was a more completely player with his ability to make great passes, rip down boards, and make game-winning defensive stops.

But a season like IT just had?

[dreamgreen]

I thought about this a few times this year. IT had an amazing year and is very special but right now I'm going to go with Paul.

[td450]

I don't think Paul ever had a season like Isaiah just had. But Pierce went out and got it done against some all-time greats like Kobe and LeBron in the playoffs. Isaiah just hasn't consistently done that yet. I wouldn't bet against him though.

[Jon]

I don't think Paul ever had a season like Isaiah just had. But Pierce went out and got it done against some all-time greats like Kobe and LeBron in the playoffs. Isaiah just hasn't consistently done that yet. I wouldn't bet against him though.

Let's also not forget that Pierce was guarding LeBron and Kobe too and putting up big numbers. As clutch as IT was, a lot of Stevens's defensive plan revolved around the best way to hide IT. For that reason, a well as the fact that IT likely won't hold up as well as PP, Pierce gets and likely always will continue to get the nod.

[jambr380]

Pierce is pretty clearly the better overall player, but he never quite reached a peak like IT just showed this past season just in terms of scoring.

IT and Rondo is a better comparison in terms of pure effectiveness and this is assuming IT goes on to have several more strong seasons after this past one.

[slamtheking]

career-wise --- Pierce.  for a single season, IT.  watching IT this year rivaled any other celtic season I've seen by any other player including Bird who I consider to be absolutely unreal on offense.  I don't think it's reasonable to expect another season like this from IT but man I hope he comes close.  we'll need it to stay at the top of the conference.

[jade88]

Pierce is pretty clearly the better overall player, but he never quite reached a peak like IT just showed this past season just in terms of scoring.

IT and Rondo is a better comparison in terms of pure effectiveness and this is assuming IT goes on to have several more strong seasons after this past one.

Rondo? If Rondo had to carry our lunch pail team we would win 20 to 25 games. Thomas is the type of player that carries his team on his back, Rondo did that from a scoring perspective only a few times.

We can literally track our winning record to the deadline that we acquired IT, playoffs ever since. If Rondo could do that, he would still be here.

Even Pierce never quite single handedly carried a team like this on the offensive end, not with this kind of success. ECF with only Horford at the All-Star level?

[Vermont Green]

Thomas had a season that was a good as any Paul Pierce season but unless he does it 5 more times (or so) I don't think he is in the same category as Pierce.  Pierce was a much more complete player also.  Make no mistake, Pierce could defend and all his rebounds seemed to be big rebounds, the ones that really mattered to the outcome of the game.

IT's season though was very  remarkable.  Rarely do you see such efficiency in a "volume" scorer.  Very clutch too.  He kept hitting shots, big shots, even though the other team was fully focused on stopping him.  Saying his career is not as good as Pierce's is certainly no insult.

[jambr380]

Pierce is pretty clearly the better overall player, but he never quite reached a peak like IT just showed this past season just in terms of scoring.

IT and Rondo is a better comparison in terms of pure effectiveness and this is assuming IT goes on to have several more strong seasons after this past one.

Rondo? If Rondo had to carry our lunch pail team we would win 20 to 25 games. Thomas is the type of player that carries his team on his back, Rondo did that from a scoring perspective only a few times.

We can literally track our winning record to the deadline that we acquired IT, playoffs ever since. If Rondo could do that, he would still be here.

Even Pierce never quite single handedly carried a team like this on the offensive end, not with this kind of success. ECF with only Horford at the All-Star level?

Yep, Rondo.

The guy was magnificent to watch. Sure he needed other scorers to play at his best, but Thomas needs other defenders and a strong 3pt shooting team to play at his best.

I love IT, will be happy to re-sign him and am happy to have him on our team, but I am not going to pretend that he is perfect. And, for the purposes of this thread, Pierce was a much more complete player.

[mmmmm]

It is important to separate what Isaiah just did in the season he just posted as compared to any single season Paul ever had from the comparison of their careers.

The Truth's total career is just phenomenal and Thomas will have to play a long time to come close to that.

But as an individual scoring season, what Thomas just did was truly historic.  Not just little guy historic.  Not just Celtic historic.  But NBA historic.   For Celtic history, in terms of total points scored and assists (i.e., total points created) only Havlicek and Bird have posted comparable or better seasons as a Celtic as Isaiah has each of these last two seasons.  Last year IT joined them in the 1800/500 club and this year he joined them in the 2000/400 club.  Very exclusive membership.   Pierce came close, in '04, just barely joining the 1800/400 club.

But in terms of scoring efficiency what Isaiah did this year was incredible.   In the entire baseball-reference.com database, among all players who (a) qualified for the mpg leaderboard and (b) had USG and AST percentages above 30%, only _two_ players have ever posted a scoring efficiency (TS%) above 60% while maintaining a turnover ratio (TOV%) below 12%.  Here are the 5 greatest seasons of both heavy point-creation usage with low turnovers and high scoring efficiency.

Isaiah Thomas   2016-17  34.0% USG, 32.6% AST, 10.7% TOV, 62.5% TS
Michael Jordan  1988-89  32.1% USG, 34.7% AST, 11.9% TOV, 61.4% TS
LeBron James    2008-09   33.8% USG, 38.0% AST, 11.0% TOV, 59.1% TS
Dwyane Wade     2008-09   36.2% USG, 40.3% AST, 11.6% TOV, 57.4% TS
LeBron James    2005-06   33.6% USG, 32.8% AST, 10.7% TOV, 56.8% TS


These four numbers sort of form the holy foursome of offensive point-creation indicators.  They cover, volume, scoring efficiently and assisting your teammates while not turning the ball over.