I Love What The White Mamba Says

[Phantom255x]

http://www.csnne.com/video/gordon-hayward-and-celtics-match-made-heaven

Here's the video.

He says he sees no problem in why the Celtics can't have "two age groups" out there simultaneously while competing and developing at the same time. The Spurs do the same and did it with the Parker-Ginobli-Duncan era as well, having the likes of Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard and others as the "younger age group" developing, and taking over once that era ended.

He doesn't see the need to put all your chips into one star player right now (like a George or Butler) and go into a risky 2-3 year, "win - now" period. The C's can keep competing with consistent 50+ win seasons, and they have solidified themselves as a Top-3 team in the East, albeit the Cavaliers being way ahead of them now. BUT with Lebron at age 32, you could sense him losing a touch in a few seasons, which is when the developing players hopefully start hitting their peaks/primes.

Also, even the Spurs right now, with the elite/veteran coaching, aren't good enough to beat Golden State, but like in the past, they are playing it smart, with an aging group AND a young group, and when the time comes, they can strike again and start another legitimate dynasty. Right now, Warriors are in their way, similar to how the Cavaliers are in our way. Main difference is, you reckon Warriors window will be much longer than Cleveland's (small advantage us?). Plus, Spurs did look REALLY good against GSW before Leonard went out injured.

Draper and Scalabrine also think Hayward would be a FANTASTIC addition to this team and his added, elite wing scoring presence is much needed for this team. He's obviously no Durant or Curry BUT a big upgrade who could ALSO make it easier for the guys around him (now Isaiah won't be double teamed every possession as the team has more scoring threats, for example).

You guys agree? I think he sums it up perfectly.

[A Future of Stevens]

I've been listening to Scal alot, and I agree 100% with that path forward. We are in the rare position to mimic the Spurs sustained legacy, we just need to be patient.

I've never bought the idea we need to sacrifice our future just to appease our aging vets.

Best part about Hayward is that he is young enough to be a main cog in both of the age cores.

[biggs]

I agree that we can compete now while rebuilding, however the one thing I keep thinking about is- will they trade the current core before they lose value ala KG/PP trade?

Say we sign Hayward-

Our "big three" is now IT/Hayward/Horford. So, now Danny (who famously said he would have traded the original big three before they lost value, and actually did so with KG/PP) has to trade them before they just expire right?

No way he gets the king's Ransom that we got from Brooklyn, but if Jaylen/Fultz/Smart are our future big three, will we get anything for the current group?

Thoughts?

[CelticsElite]

Spurs of the east. I'm down

[A Future of Stevens]

I agree that we can compete now while rebuilding, however the one thing I keep thinking about is- will they trade the current core before they lose value ala KG/PP trade?

Say we sign Hayward-

Our "big three" is now IT/Hayward/Horford. So, now Danny (who famously said he would have traded the original big three before they lost value, and actually did so with KG/PP) has to trade them before they just expire right?

No way he gets the king's Ransom that we got from Brooklyn, but if Jaylen/Fultz/Smart are our future big three, will we get anything for the current group?

Thoughts?

I think more value lies in keeping them around. Keep Horford and IT to compete and show the young guys how to do that. In a perfect world, Danny would get IT to agree to a 3 year max extension, which would mean we would free up 60ish million in cap the same summer AD becomes an unrestricted FA. Also letting your guys walk has a better league wide perception than trading away the current face of your franchise.

And the return on either in a trade wouldn't be a ton. They are worth alot more to us than to other teams.

[Rosco917]

I think a lot is balancing on what IT demands as a free agent. If he wants 5 years of max money, we may have a problem. If he can be signed for "reasonable" money for 3 years we'll have a much more realistic chance of getting into a finals with IT, Horford, Hayward, and a few carefully chosen bigs, and still have Brown, and Fultz waiting in the wings.

[Boris Badenov]

I agree that we can compete now while rebuilding, however the one thing I keep thinking about is- will they trade the current core before they lose value ala KG/PP trade?

Say we sign Hayward-

Our "big three" is now IT/Hayward/Horford. So, now Danny (who famously said he would have traded the original big three before they lost value, and actually did so with KG/PP) has to trade them before they just expire right?

No way he gets the king's Ransom that we got from Brooklyn, but if Jaylen/Fultz/Smart are our future big three, will we get anything for the current group?

Thoughts?

Hayward's young enough, for sure, to stick around for the next generation. He'd be 30 in 4 years and should be playing at the same level, roughly, and could have enough left in the tank for a 3-4 year run after then. That gives the young guys 2-3 years to develop.

Horford will slip in the next few years, but he will still only be 33 at the end of his contract, and the money won't look so crazy by then. He should be pretty moveable but won't fetch a whole lot back. (What I thought with KG/Pierce but I doubt that lightning strikes twice).

IT is the wild card. He will have the longest contract (if we keep him) and greater uncertainty about his level of play. I just have no idea what we could get for him at, say, age 29 as a 25ppg scorer with serious defensive limitations.

I guess the ultimate thing though is that if anyone can get value for one of these guys, it's Danny.

[tonydelk]

I 100% agree and do not want the C's to trade for an all star not named AD if they have to give up either of the Brooklyn picks. 

[JOMVP]

Always made the most sense to me.

IT/Hayward/Horford is your core now.
Fultz/Brown/Ayton or Porter/Hayward is your core of the future.

[chilidawg]

If you want to emulate the Spurs, one important facet is continuity.  Their core, Robinson, Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, and Popovich has been kept around longer than any other in the league.  That allows them to bring in new guys, young and old, and keep the system running.  I think the Celtics are well poised to do the same.

I know everyone likes new and shiny, but it's important to value what you have too.

[BitterJim]

I agree. I've never understood the "We HAVE to make a decision between now and later" argument, and never got an explanation that was anything more than an "appeal to common sense" fallacy. There's no reason that we can't compete now (and stay ready in case a golden opportunity to contend comes up) and build for later at the same time. No, the young guys won't be spoonfed 48 minutes from game 1, but they'll have the opportunity to earn their minutes, and will develop. You won't get the opportunity to see the progress as much as on a 10 win team, but they will get better and they'll learn the right way to play

[Phantom255x]

I think a lot is balancing on what IT demands as a free agent. If he wants 5 years of max money, we may have a problem. If he can be signed for "reasonable" money for 3 years we'll have a much more realistic chance of getting into a finals with IT, Horford, Hayward, and a few carefully chosen bigs, and still have Brown, and Fultz waiting in the wings.

While I love Isaiah and think he is worth the 5 year max, I think he ends up staying on a Westbrook kind of deal (maybe 3/87M, option the 3rd year). Makes sense for all sides, AND he could still get another good contract afterwards. I just don't think any other team out there will actually offer him a 4-year max in FA, which could be an advantage to us in a sense. IT will still get paid, no doubt.

[Phantom255x]

I agree that we can compete now while rebuilding, however the one thing I keep thinking about is- will they trade the current core before they lose value ala KG/PP trade?

Say we sign Hayward-

Our "big three" is now IT/Hayward/Horford. So, now Danny (who famously said he would have traded the original big three before they lost value, and actually did so with KG/PP) has to trade them before they just expire right?

No way he gets the king's Ransom that we got from Brooklyn, but if Jaylen/Fultz/Smart are our future big three, will we get anything for the current group?

Thoughts?

Hayward's young enough, for sure, to stick around for the next generation. He'd be 30 in 4 years and should be playing at the same level, roughly, and could have enough left in the tank for a 3-4 year run after then. That gives the young guys 2-3 years to develop.

Horford will slip in the next few years, but he will still only be 33 at the end of his contract, and the money won't look so crazy by then. He should be pretty moveable but won't fetch a whole lot back. (What I thought with KG/Pierce but I doubt that lightning strikes twice).

IT is the wild card. He will have the longest contract (if we keep him) and greater uncertainty about his level of play. I just have no idea what we could get for him at, say, age 29 as a 25ppg scorer with serious defensive limitations.

I guess the ultimate thing though is that if anyone can get value for one of these guys, it's Danny.

Horford strikes me as a guy who could sign for less money to stay with the C's, especially if by then the C's are in legitimate contention for winning the Finals as Lebron the Cavs falter.

He clearly won't be an all-star by then but still a solid veteran presence and someone who can make so many things happen on the court (even if not scoring).

As we're seeing, these "aging, washed up" veterans on the Cavs/Warriors are putting in solid minutes, and they've been doing it the past few Finals as well.

[Moranis]

The Spurs young guys didn't play the same position as the older guys so there weren't artificial minute restrictions.  Leoanrd was able to play as many minutes as he could handle the moment he was able to handle them.  If Leornard was a PG it wouldn't have worked nearly as well with him and Parker.

[Rakulp]

Patience is usually key...and our patience is paying dividends, year after year improvement over the past three years.

Adding an outstanding prospect like Fultz and possibly adding an established talent like Hayward (or Griffin if Hayward stays in Utah) would seem to give us a great reason to believe that next year will be the year that we move past the Cavaliers in the East.

Rak