Author Topic: does warriors dominance equal hayward  (Read 10006 times)

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Re: does warriors dominance equal hayward
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2017, 04:32:08 PM »

Offline RLewis35

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James "have championship, will travel" has been a kind of bad influence in the league. Starting with Miami, he lured Bosh to play with him and Wade. Then going back to Cleveland, the .500 team miraculously won the lottery, which yielded Love. Irving was there, so presto, a championship. And now you have the Warriors piling on with Durant, and the Spurs who scarfed up Aldridge and Gasol. The Celtics detractors would chime in on KG and Allen, but Ainge pulled off a couple of trades to get his stars to go with Pierce. The other teams were FA plucks.

From a FA standpoint, James started the empire building in free agency. Now all the big FAs want to go to the best teams. And it seems easy to do that--just get rid of enough players to fit them under or near the cap--which is as soft as molasses in the NBA. The League doesn't have an answer for this, since the FA rules are those of both the league and the players association.

That's the way it is. Makes you wonder if drafting talented 19yos will ever get you anywhere.
Clearly, more than that is needed.

The Warriors were largely created by drafting 19 year olds.  Curry wasn't even a top 5 pick

The Warriors certainly have had exceedingly good fortune. Virtually no one expected Curry, Green, or even Thompson to be as good as they are. And the Warriors were paying all three virtually peanuts when one of the game's best players just happened to be a free agent. Couldn't have worked out any better for them.

I'd call multiple lottery wins without odds "good fortune".  I call what the Warriors did "genius".  They spotted talent and picked it up - drafted 3 all-NBA level players without using a top 5 pick on them.

Can't hate on the Warriors management for that (and then clearing cap space to sign KD).  You can hate on the Warriors celebrating mid game more than any team I've ever seen and leading the league in arrogance, but not for how the team was constructed.

Re: does warriors dominance equal hayward
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2017, 04:40:46 PM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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James "have championship, will travel" has been a kind of bad influence in the league. Starting with Miami, he lured Bosh to play with him and Wade. Then going back to Cleveland, the .500 team miraculously won the lottery, which yielded Love. Irving was there, so presto, a championship. And now you have the Warriors piling on with Durant, and the Spurs who scarfed up Aldridge and Gasol. The Celtics detractors would chime in on KG and Allen, but Ainge pulled off a couple of trades to get his stars to go with Pierce. The other teams were FA plucks.

From a FA standpoint, James started the empire building in free agency. Now all the big FAs want to go to the best teams. And it seems easy to do that--just get rid of enough players to fit them under or near the cap--which is as soft as molasses in the NBA. The League doesn't have an answer for this, since the FA rules are those of both the league and the players association.

That's the way it is. Makes you wonder if drafting talented 19yos will ever get you anywhere.
Clearly, more than that is needed.

The Warriors were largely created by drafting 19 year olds.  Curry wasn't even a top 5 pick

The Warriors certainly have had exceedingly good fortune. Virtually no one expected Curry, Green, or even Thompson to be as good as they are. And the Warriors were paying all three virtually peanuts when one of the game's best players just happened to be a free agent. Couldn't have worked out any better for them.

I'd call multiple lottery wins without odds "good fortune".  I call what the Warriors did "genius".  They spotted talent and picked it up - drafted 3 all-NBA level players without using a top 5 pick on them.

Can't hate on the Warriors management for that (and then clearing cap space to sign KD).  You can hate on the Warriors celebrating mid game more than any team I've ever seen and leading the league in arrogance, but not for how the team was constructed.

I'm not knocking how they were constructed. They surely do have some great scouts and management. Still, to have ALL of those guys pan out as they have takes at least some good fortune, in my opinion.
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Re: does warriors dominance equal hayward
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2017, 04:56:49 PM »

Offline cousytoheinsohn

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James "have championship, will travel" has been a kind of bad influence in the league. Starting with Miami, he lured Bosh to play with him and Wade. Then going back to Cleveland, the .500 team miraculously won the lottery, which yielded Love. Irving was there, so presto, a championship. And now you have the Warriors piling on with Durant, and the Spurs who scarfed up Aldridge and Gasol. The Celtics detractors would chime in on KG and Allen, but Ainge pulled off a couple of trades to get his stars to go with Pierce. The other teams were FA plucks.

From a FA standpoint, James started the empire building in free agency. Now all the big FAs want to go to the best teams. And it seems easy to do that--just get rid of enough players to fit them under or near the cap--which is as soft as molasses in the NBA. The League doesn't have an answer for this, since the FA rules are those of both the league and the players association.

That's the way it is. Makes you wonder if drafting talented 19yos will ever get you anywhere.
Clearly, more than that is needed.

The Warriors were largely created by drafting 19 year olds.  Curry wasn't even a top 5 pick

The Warriors certainly have had exceedingly good fortune. Virtually no one expected Curry, Green, or even Thompson to be as good as they are. And the Warriors were paying all three virtually peanuts when one of the game's best players just happened to be a free agent. Couldn't have worked out any better for them.

I'd call multiple lottery wins without odds "good fortune".  I call what the Warriors did "genius".  They spotted talent and picked it up - drafted 3 all-NBA level players without using a top 5 pick on them.

Can't hate on the Warriors management for that (and then clearing cap space to sign KD).  You can hate on the Warriors celebrating mid game more than any team I've ever seen and leading the league in arrogance, but not for how the team was constructed.

Great point RL35.

We probably shouldn't overlook or undervalue the input the great Jerry West has had in the overall decision-making process for the Dubs since joining the organization in 2011 which has likely been understated in the media; nor the success he had as general manager in rebuilding the Grizzlies leading to NBA Executive of the Year honors in 2004, his second such award. 

And, of course, there's the small matter of the role he played in assembling the Lakers teams in the 80s, also as general manager. Success follows him around like a shadow. 

The Logo is the only Laker I've ever allowed or will ever allow myself to like. He's a fascinating person. If only somehow he could've been a Celtic.

From Wikipedia:

Jerry Alan West was born into a poor household in Chelyan, West Virginia.[1] He was the fifth of six children of his mother Cecil Sue West, a housewife, and her husband Howard Stewart West, a coal mine electrician.[2] West was a shy, introverted boy, who became even more withdrawn when his closest brother David died in the Korean War at age 22 when Jerry was 12.[1] He was so small and frail that he needed vitamin injections from his doctor and was kept apart from children's sports, to prevent him from getting seriously hurt.[1] Growing up, West spent his days hunting and fishing, but his main distraction was shooting at a basketball hoop that a neighbor had nailed to his storage shed. West spent days shooting baskets from every possible angle, ignoring mud and snow in the backyard, as well as his mother's whippings when he came home hours late for dinner; he played so often that the NBA acknowledged it as "obsessive".[1]




Re: does warriors dominance equal hayward
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2017, 09:42:25 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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I've been around for a long time. I've seen a lot of "invincible" teams that have lost. 1980 Russian Olympic team. 2007 NE Patriots. 1968 Baltimore Colts. 1986 Edmonton Oilers. 1996 Detroit Red Wings. 2016 Golden State Warriors. 1991 UNLV Running Rebels. 1973 Celtics. 2001 Seattle Mariners. The list goes on...

All of these teams were considered unbeatable history-making teams of destiny. Yet none of them won a championship. Some lost in one game. Some lost in 7. All of these were beaten by supposedly inferior teams that simply (a) played perfectly and/or (b) matched up very well against their opposition.

The Warriors are the NBA's best team. But they're not unbeatable and of all the teams out there the two that match up the best are us and San Antonio. I'm not saying we wouldn't be underdogs but we would have a fighting chance. And if we can have a fighting chance while drafting for the future then that's the best of both worlds.

......Let's add the '69 Celtics(vs Fakers balloons) and the '60 Pirates to that group....No chance for those teams either.....I was stunned by both of those as were the Fakers and Yanks



Match-ups and heart and some luck are needed....we have the first two....we'll need some of the Leprechaun dust too.

Preach, brothers, preach!

Well done.

I'm right there with both of you and I'm sure the magic dust is en route to Beantown even as we speak.

From our lips to the basketball gods' ears!!!!

Re: does warriors dominance equal hayward
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2017, 09:45:53 PM »

Offline mctyson

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The whole league is toast. Any FA should just look for max dollars they can get. No team is taking warriors with out at least having two top 10 players.

I don't agree with this either.  The league is a pendulum, and sometimes it swings in the favor of teams like GSW.

But they are not a team of 22 year olds.  Their best players are stick figures.  Add any bit of physicality to the game and things will change.

Re: does warriors dominance equal hayward
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2017, 09:49:49 PM »

Offline mctyson

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The whole league is toast. Any FA should just look for max dollars they can get. No team is taking warriors with out at least having two top 10 players.

Cavs already have two top 10 calibre players.. add Love

you need at least 4 all stars to have a chance
They have 4 all-stars and 2 MVPs. First team ever with 2 MVPs, both below 30. So I guess you need 4 all-stars and at least 1 MVP caliber player as well. Good luck with that.

*sigh*

No, what you need are the right matchups. You can't compete with their firepower. What you have to do is take them out of their game.

I'm old school so I look to GSW like being George Foreman. Unstoppable. Knocked Frazier out who beat Ali. A wrecking machine. Frazier couldn't come close to beating him. Norton looked pathetic against him. Yet Ali came in and beat the heck out of big George and fairly dominated that fight (led on all 3 scorecards when he knocked him out). Yet Frazier and Norton gave Ali whuppins' (Ali's decision over Norton was a farce).

Same deal applies here. Cleveland doesn't match up really well against GSW. If the Warriors hadn't been complacent last year this would be their 3rd straight victory over them. You can't beat them at their own game. You have to take them out of it. Frankly, I think we have *most* of the roster to already do that which is why we're 2-2 against them the last two years. The problem is that we don't match up well against Cleveland and yes we need a bit more firepower on our end to truly have a chance. But they're not neigh invincible and we shouldn't be treating them like it.
We are light years away from Golden State. Good luck trying to match up against them with Hayward, IT, Horford and Bradley (assuming he stays which is far from certain) . Don't get me wrong, these are all very good players. Thing is Durant, Curry, Thompson and Green are way better, and to make matters worse, they have already built an almost perfect on-court chemistry.

I've been around for a long time. I've seen a lot of "invincible" teams that have lost. 1980 Russian Olympic team. 2007 NE Patriots. 1968 Baltimore Colts. 1986 Edmonton Oilers. 1996 Detroit Red Wings. 2016 Golden State Warriors. 1991 UNLV Running Rebels. 1973 Celtics. 2001 Seattle Mariners. The list goes on...

All of these teams were considered unbeatable history-making teams of destiny. Yet none of them won a championship. Some lost in one game. Some lost in 7. All of these were beaten by supposedly inferior teams that simply (a) played perfectly and/or (b) matched up very well against their opposition.

The Warriors are the NBA's best team. But they're not unbeatable and of all the teams out there the two that match up the best are us and San Antonio. I'm not saying we wouldn't be underdogs but we would have a fighting chance. And if we can have a fighting chance while drafting for the future then that's the best of both worlds.

TP.  Spot on.

Re: does warriors dominance equal hayward
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2017, 09:58:13 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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James "have championship, will travel" has been a kind of bad influence in the league. Starting with Miami, he lured Bosh to play with him and Wade. Then going back to Cleveland, the .500 team miraculously won the lottery, which yielded Love. Irving was there, so presto, a championship. And now you have the Warriors piling on with Durant, and the Spurs who scarfed up Aldridge and Gasol. The Celtics detractors would chime in on KG and Allen, but Ainge pulled off a couple of trades to get his stars to go with Pierce. The other teams were FA plucks.

From a FA standpoint, James started the empire building in free agency. Now all the big FAs want to go to the best teams. And it seems easy to do that--just get rid of enough players to fit them under or near the cap--which is as soft as molasses in the NBA. The League doesn't have an answer for this, since the FA rules are those of both the league and the players association.

That's the way it is. Makes you wonder if drafting talented 19yos will ever get you anywhere.
Clearly, more than that is needed.

TP-Have Gun Will Travel a favorite as a kid
I grew up in lexington  was familiar with the Greeley ancestors

Richard Boone, who played Paladin in the Have Gun Will Travel TV series, was a sailor on the carrier Enterprise in WWII. Perhaps the most famous ship of WWII.

Re: does warriors dominance equal hayward
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2017, 09:59:47 PM »

Offline liam

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The whole league is toast. Any FA should just look for max dollars they can get. No team is taking warriors with out at least having two top 10 players.

I don't agree with this either.  The league is a pendulum, and sometimes it swings in the favor of teams like GSW.

But they are not a team of 22 year olds.  Their best players are stick figures.  Add any bit of physicality to the game and things will change.

Didn't LeBron promise Miami like 8 championships. Things change and teams fail...

Re: does warriors dominance equal hayward
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2017, 10:13:11 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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lucky jerry west works for GS and not lakers

Re: does warriors dominance equal hayward
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2017, 10:34:36 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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lucky jerry west works for GS and not lakers

Yup.

Years ago, I had the fortune to sit next to Jerry West for an entire half of a Summer League Celts/Lakers game--and talk basketball....It was Elden Campell's rookie year...John Crotty was running the point for Boston....Very nice guy, as he initiated the conversation with: "Oh No, a Celtics fan"....But he was cool the entire time--giving me a few pointers on some players games.

Later on, Jerry Buss made the huge mistake of letting his children run the team, when he should have chosen West. West moved onto the Memphis and now GSW
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

Re: does warriors dominance equal hayward
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2017, 10:48:16 PM »

Offline liam

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lucky jerry west works for GS and not lakers

Yup.

Years ago, I had the fortune to sit next to Jerry West for an entire half of a Summer League Celts/Lakers game--and talk basketball....It was Elden Campell's rookie year...John Crotty was running the point for Boston....Very nice guy, as he initiated the conversation with: "Oh No, a Celtics fan"....But he was cool the entire time--giving me a few pointers on some players games.

Later on, Jerry Buss made the huge mistake of letting his children run the team, when he should have chosen West. West moved onto the Memphis and now GSW

Didn't West have a hand in shipping Gasol to LA while with the Grizz, thus creating the last Lakers championship team...

Re: does warriors dominance equal hayward
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2017, 12:29:40 AM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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lucky jerry west works for GS and not lakers

Yup.

Years ago, I had the fortune to sit next to Jerry West for an entire half of a Summer League Celts/Lakers game--and talk basketball....It was Elden Campell's rookie year...John Crotty was running the point for Boston....Very nice guy, as he initiated the conversation with: "Oh No, a Celtics fan"....But he was cool the entire time--giving me a few pointers on some players games.

Later on, Jerry Buss made the huge mistake of letting his children run the team, when he should have chosen West. West moved onto the Memphis and now GSW

Didn't West have a hand in shipping Gasol to LA while with the Grizz, thus creating the last Lakers championship team...

Though not officially, you can bet he was working the back channels to get Gasol there---the incompetent Mitch K got the credit though....Butthead Chris Wallace had just taken over as GM of Memphis---West was gone, but most likely had significant influence.
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

Re: does warriors dominance equal hayward
« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2017, 12:38:24 AM »

Offline jakeopp

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Looking down the barrel of that Warrior squad for the foreseeable future might motivate him beside the obvious connection to Brad.The Warriors will attract the best vets coming off the bench at discount looking for a ring.Their situation looks long and getting stronger.

Hayward might prefer playing with Horford  a big that stretches and a great passer.Then the attention Isaiah gets should really favor Hayward.
The  media attention the Celts get as a rising team with Danny and Brad and the focus to build and win another banner. Too  to be part of that legacy in a sports mad great city might be just enough.

I like what Utah has going, and I generally have positive impressions of the Jazz as a franchise, but if Hayward wants to win titles—and I presume he does—his best bet is Boston, hands down. Utah will almost assuredly never attract marquee free agents, and the Jazz are highly unlikely to ever beat this GS team (or even the Spurs). Hayward's title odds are much better over the next several years if he joins the Celtics (unless he could somehow join the Warriors).

If he wants a ring in the next few years he's going to have to join Lebron or the Warriors. Danny would have to pull off some ridiculous trades to put us at their level.

Re: does warriors dominance equal hayward
« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2017, 12:47:25 AM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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Looking down the barrel of that Warrior squad for the foreseeable future might motivate him beside the obvious connection to Brad.The Warriors will attract the best vets coming off the bench at discount looking for a ring.Their situation looks long and getting stronger.

Hayward might prefer playing with Horford  a big that stretches and a great passer.Then the attention Isaiah gets should really favor Hayward.
The  media attention the Celts get as a rising team with Danny and Brad and the focus to build and win another banner. Too  to be part of that legacy in a sports mad great city might be just enough.

I like what Utah has going, and I generally have positive impressions of the Jazz as a franchise, but if Hayward wants to win titles—and I presume he does—his best bet is Boston, hands down. Utah will almost assuredly never attract marquee free agents, and the Jazz are highly unlikely to ever beat this GS team (or even the Spurs). Hayward's title odds are much better over the next several years if he joins the Celtics (unless he could somehow join the Warriors).

If he wants a ring in the next few years he's going to have to join Lebron or the Warriors. Danny would have to pull off some ridiculous trades to put us at their level.

Disagree....you sign Hayward and trade for Butler or George---we are right there. With the brand of BB that Stevens runs.

Cavs got 3 WASHED UP players getting big playoff minutes...Plus, our style matches up well with Warriors....anything can happen....You can't just roll over for these teams.
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

Re: does warriors dominance equal hayward
« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2017, 01:18:02 AM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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I think if we got Hayward, he'd probably win the MVP, but we wouldn't be Championship ready unless Fultz an Brown both became All Stars and we added another piece.