CBS Mock Draft suggests Celtics/Pacers trade...

[Roy H.]

I'd rather sign Hayward and draft Fultz.

Do we know how much cap space / exception(?) we would have to add to the frontcourt in the event we sign Hayward?

A $4.3 million exception, no matter what.

Cap space depends. Assuming we move AB to sign Hayward, we could clear another $14 million or so by trading Crowder and renouncing KO.

[Fireworks_Boom!]

Are we sure Gordon Hayward is the guy we want to bet our long term future on? Seems to be another borderline max contract which we already have 1 of (Horford).

Are we sure we know the true sacrifice of the current roster in order to clear room for him (Bradley, Olynyk, Rozier, Johnson, Jerebko)?

Paul George, assuming a long term commitment as no one on this board wants him for a 1 year rental so this was always the condition when trading for PG13, is a far better centerpiece to an offense than Gordon Hayward.

[Roy H.]

Are we sure Gordon Hayward is the guy we want to bet our long term future on? Seems to be another borderline max contract which we already have 1 of (Horford).

Are we sure we know the true sacrifice of the current roster in order to clear room for him (Bradley, Olynyk, Rozier, Johnson, Jerebko)?

Paul George, assuming a long term commitment as no one on this board wants him for a 1 year rental so this was always the condition when trading for PG13, is a far better centerpiece to an offense than Gordon Hayward.

Far better offensive centerpiece?

Pace-adjusted, Hayward had more points and more assists, with a higher FG%, 3PT%, and eFG%. He averaged significantly fewer turnovers than George, and got to the line significantly more often.

Hayward's team was much better offensively when he was on the floor than George's was, and Hayward's team won more games.

How is George "far better" offensively?

[max215]

Are we sure Gordon Hayward is the guy we want to bet our long term future on? Seems to be another borderline max contract which we already have 1 of (Horford).

Are we sure we know the true sacrifice of the current roster in order to clear room for him (Bradley, Olynyk, Rozier, Johnson, Jerebko)?

Paul George, assuming a long term commitment as no one on this board wants him for a 1 year rental so this was always the condition when trading for PG13, is a far better centerpiece to an offense than Gordon Hayward.

http://bkref.com/tiny/lGE9h

Is he really? Per-36, their numbers are borderline identical with Hayward's efficiency and playmaking being a tick better than George. The fact of the matter is that George is pretty overrated and Hayward underrated. They're on the same level.

Edit: Roy brings up pace-adjustment, which is important given that Hayward played for such a plodding team.

[TheSundanceKid]

I've proposed trading Fultz for George before, but no way I do it at the draft and no way I take back Jefferson.  The point of acquiring George is after Hayward, Griffin, or Millsap signs in free agency.  You then add George to the team at that point to make the team a real contender.

How on earth are you going to pay for that roster after giving Isaiah a new contract in 2018? You're talking about a payroll of over $200m, unprecedented in the NBA and the possibility of the owners making a big loss even if we did win the championship

[Moranis]

I've proposed trading Fultz for George before, but no way I do it at the draft and no way I take back Jefferson.  The point of acquiring George is after Hayward, Griffin, or Millsap signs in free agency.  You then add George to the team at that point to make the team a real contender.

How on earth are you going to pay for that roster after giving Isaiah a new contract in 2018? You're talking about a payroll of over $200m, unprecedented in the NBA and the possibility of the owners making a big loss even if we did win the championship

I wouldn't give Thomas a max contract, if he leaves so be it, with George and Hayward (or Griffin), plus Horford I don't think it matters.  I've also gone on record many times saying I'd rather keep Bradley than Thomas.  I just think Bradley is a better fit and will cost less to keep.

[saltlover]

I've proposed trading Fultz for George before, but no way I do it at the draft and no way I take back Jefferson.  The point of acquiring George is after Hayward, Griffin, or Millsap signs in free agency.  You then add George to the team at that point to make the team a real contender.

How on earth are you going to pay for that roster after giving Isaiah a new contract in 2018? You're talking about a payroll of over $200m, unprecedented in the NBA and the possibility of the owners making a big loss even if we did win the championship

I wouldn't give Thomas a max contract, if he leaves so be it, with George and Hayward (or Griffin), plus Horford I don't think it matters.  I've also gone on record many times saying I'd rather keep Bradley than Thomas.  I just think Bradley is a better fit and will cost less to keep.

It doesn't really matter if you max IT or George in 2018 -- that team still is too expensive to be second-fiddle to Golden State.  And if it isn't too expensive, it's way too shallow, since acquiring PG in a trade means you have to have moved Fultz and at least one useful salary (AB, or combinations of Crowder, Smart, and Brown) on top of letting other players go to make room for the max free agent you signed (Olynyk, Rozier).

Here are your choices.  In free agency, you can let everyone walk, including Olynyk, and dump Rozier to make room for a max (this might require the max player to give us a couple hundred thousand discount, or not, depending where the cap falls between $101 and $102 million).  Or you can trade AB for no 2017-2018 salary obligations, and get your max while keeping Olynyk.

Then, having done that, you can get George by sending out at least $14.5 million in salary.  So this can be Fultz+Crowder+Rozier (if you didn't move Rozier), Fultz+AB (if you didn't move AB), Fultz+Crowder+Smart, Fultz+Crowder+Brown, or Fultz+Smart+Brown.  Which combination are you taking?  I'm curious.

[tonydelk]

I don't think the C's can afford to move any of the Brooklyn picks.  They need top tier talent at a cheap price for the next 4 years while Horford, IT and any other FA they sign this year age.  There are only a handful of players I would feel ok as a fan the C's move for one of the Brooklyn picks.  Paul George is not one of them.  If he was signed for 4 more years it would be different.  He just turned 27 and is in the prime of his career.  I would not trust a verbal commitment from a player that they would resign.  Just ask Cleveland how that worked out with Carlos Boozer.

[Chief Macho]

Would you trade this pick for Myles turner and pg?

[tonydelk]

Would you trade this pick for Myles turner and pg?

That is a trade I would consider because if PG leaves it doesn't leave you with nothing.  I am a big Myles Turner fan but he was very inconsistent this year rebounding the basketball.  He'd have stretches where he would dominate then stretches where he would disappear.  He can shoot the ball from 3pt range and can rim protect.  He is exactly the type of guy the Celtics need to find in the draft.  I think next year the chances are more likely they get one with the Brooklyn pick.  I am all for patience, keeping the top picks, resigning our guys like IT and possibly Bradley and building a team that can win for the next 10-12 years versus making the ECF for the next 3-4.

[nickagneta]

I just lost points off my IQ for having read that article, even if the author started the article saying it was crazy trade ideas that he was imagining happening.

[hpantazo]

Are we sure Gordon Hayward is the guy we want to bet our long term future on? Seems to be another borderline max contract which we already have 1 of (Horford).

Are we sure we know the true sacrifice of the current roster in order to clear room for him (Bradley, Olynyk, Rozier, Johnson, Jerebko)?

Paul George, assuming a long term commitment as no one on this board wants him for a 1 year rental so this was always the condition when trading for PG13, is a far better centerpiece to an offense than Gordon Hayward.

Far better offensive centerpiece?

Pace-adjusted, Hayward had more points and more assists, with a higher FG%, 3PT%, and eFG%. He averaged significantly fewer turnovers than George, and got to the line significantly more often.

Hayward's team was much better offensively when he was on the floor than George's was, and Hayward's team won more games.

How is George "far better" offensively?

I agree with Roy. Hayward is at least equal to George and acquiring him does not require trading key assets and hoping he doesn't bolt next year

[Phantom255x]

Are we sure Gordon Hayward is the guy we want to bet our long term future on? Seems to be another borderline max contract which we already have 1 of (Horford).

Are we sure we know the true sacrifice of the current roster in order to clear room for him (Bradley, Olynyk, Rozier, Johnson, Jerebko)?

Paul George, assuming a long term commitment as no one on this board wants him for a 1 year rental so this was always the condition when trading for PG13, is a far better centerpiece to an offense than Gordon Hayward.

Far better offensive centerpiece?

Pace-adjusted, Hayward had more points and more assists, with a higher FG%, 3PT%, and eFG%. He averaged significantly fewer turnovers than George, and got to the line significantly more often.

Hayward's team was much better offensively when he was on the floor than George's was, and Hayward's team won more games.

How is George "far better" offensively?

I agree with Roy. Hayward is at least equal to George and acquiring him does not require trading key assets and hoping he doesn't bolt next year

I agree with the second part about not needing to deal assets for him and all, but I still do think George is slightly better than Hayward overall. But Hayward is still a great player and fills a big need for us (elite level wing scoring, and some size).

[nickagneta]

I've proposed trading Fultz for George before, but no way I do it at the draft and no way I take back Jefferson.  The point of acquiring George is after Hayward, Griffin, or Millsap signs in free agency.  You then add George to the team at that point to make the team a real contender.

How on earth are you going to pay for that roster after giving Isaiah a new contract in 2018? You're talking about a payroll of over $200m, unprecedented in the NBA and the possibility of the owners making a big loss even if we did win the championship

I wouldn't give Thomas a max contract, if he leaves so be it, with George and Hayward (or Griffin), plus Horford I don't think it matters.  I've also gone on record many times saying I'd rather keep Bradley than Thomas.  I just think Bradley is a better fit and will cost less to keep.

It doesn't really matter if you max IT or George in 2018 -- that team still is too expensive to be second-fiddle to Golden State.  And if it isn't too expensive, it's way too shallow, since acquiring PG in a trade means you have to have moved Fultz and at least one useful salary (AB, or combinations of Crowder, Smart, and Brown) on top of letting other players go to make room for the max free agent you signed (Olynyk, Rozier).

Here are your choices.  In free agency, you can let everyone walk, including Olynyk, and dump Rozier to make room for a max (this might require the max player to give us a couple hundred thousand discount, or not, depending where the cap falls between $101 and $102 million).  Or you can trade AB for no 2017-2018 salary obligations, and get your max while keeping Olynyk.

Then, having done that, you can get George by sending out at least $14.5 million in salary.  So this can be Fultz+Crowder+Rozier (if you didn't move Rozier), Fultz+AB (if you didn't move AB), Fultz+Crowder+Smart, Fultz+Crowder+Brown, or Fultz+Smart+Brown.  Which combination are you taking?  I'm curious.

Salty, I have a question. Is Zeller eligible to be traded on draft day for the value of his salary or because he is unguaranteed next year is he not eligible to be traded on draft day?

[Moranis]

I've proposed trading Fultz for George before, but no way I do it at the draft and no way I take back Jefferson.  The point of acquiring George is after Hayward, Griffin, or Millsap signs in free agency.  You then add George to the team at that point to make the team a real contender.

How on earth are you going to pay for that roster after giving Isaiah a new contract in 2018? You're talking about a payroll of over $200m, unprecedented in the NBA and the possibility of the owners making a big loss even if we did win the championship

I wouldn't give Thomas a max contract, if he leaves so be it, with George and Hayward (or Griffin), plus Horford I don't think it matters.  I've also gone on record many times saying I'd rather keep Bradley than Thomas.  I just think Bradley is a better fit and will cost less to keep.

It doesn't really matter if you max IT or George in 2018 -- that team still is too expensive to be second-fiddle to Golden State.  And if it isn't too expensive, it's way too shallow, since acquiring PG in a trade means you have to have moved Fultz and at least one useful salary (AB, or combinations of Crowder, Smart, and Brown) on top of letting other players go to make room for the max free agent you signed (Olynyk, Rozier).

Here are your choices.  In free agency, you can let everyone walk, including Olynyk, and dump Rozier to make room for a max (this might require the max player to give us a couple hundred thousand discount, or not, depending where the cap falls between $101 and $102 million).  Or you can trade AB for no 2017-2018 salary obligations, and get your max while keeping Olynyk.

Then, having done that, you can get George by sending out at least $14.5 million in salary.  So this can be Fultz+Crowder+Rozier (if you didn't move Rozier), Fultz+AB (if you didn't move AB), Fultz+Crowder+Smart, Fultz+Crowder+Brown, or Fultz+Smart+Brown.  Which combination are you taking?  I'm curious.

I'd dump Rozier and KO and then trade Fultz, Smart, and Crowder for George and Seraphin (I believe that works).  My optimal free agent signing would actually be Griffin.  Leaving a starting 5 of Thomas, Bradley, George, Griffin, and Horford.  You have Brown, Zizic and Seraphin on the bench before any other moves (Yabu stays overseas because you need that room).  I'd re-sign Green at the vet minimum exception (if he'd come back at that price).  I'd make the same offer to Amir, who may just be willing to stay for the minimum.  I'd do the same thing with other vets (you know the David West's of the world) and would fill in the roster with 2nd round picks and other young guys on rookie minimum type deals. 

The bench would be thin, but that starting 5 would be incredible and would give Boston a real shot at winning the title next season.  Obviously it likely can't keep all 5 guys on huge dollar contracts, and a real decision needs to be made regarding Thomas and Bradley, but having the 3, 4, and 5 all locked in for multiple years is a risk worth taking (that of course assumes George re-signs, which clearly Boston would believe or it wouldn't make that trade).  Boston would still have the BKN 18 and basically all of its future draft picks (and LAC and MEM) for adding young depth to transition the starting five (plus Brown, Zizic, and Yabu).