Does anyone still want to trade for George/Butler

[PaulP34]

After watching these finals?

Not even sure George/Butler gets us to 6 or 7 against Cleveland, and Cleveland can't even hang with GoldenState

You'd be nutty to still want to trade the picks/brown for anyone older than 24 or so.

Only way id trade for Butler is if the Bulls would take Bradley, Crowder, Olynyk and Rozier and maybe the 2019 Clippers 1st round pick. Brooklyn picks and Brown out of the equation. Not worth it.

Build for the future. I dont care if we miss the playoffs the next few years cause in the long run, this team is better off waiting for Jaylen Brown, Markelle Fultz and the 018 pick develop.

I'd still take 10 years of dominance over a 3 or 4 year window.

IMO signing Al Horford handycapped us a bit. We bit the bullet on that one and i dont wanna see us biting anymore by trading good picks for aging stars such as PG13 or Butler

If Horford led to Durant, like it was rumored it might, we could very well be in the lead in the NBA finals right now.  Durant is that good to elevate us to that point, IMO.

While Horford may hamstring us a bit financially, he was an essential piece to the conference finals run, and will help lead us to 2-3 more conf finals runs, IMO, which will be excellent experience for Jaylen, Markelle, Smart and other young players who will be the core of our next champion.  And if GS blows up somehow or injuries derail Cle or GS, we have a chance next year to win it all (if we sign Hayward).

I agree with everything here. I did like the Al Horford signing at the time (IF) we nailed the Durant signing but that fell through. I also feel Horford was a big part of making it to the ECF. But to rely on the GSW blowing up or a major injury to a key part of the Cavs is a long shot. Lebron is just gonna have the Cavs go out and get a Carmelo Anthony or Westbrook type player. He may even have the Cavs beat us to Hayward just to get back to the Finals next year. The NBA is like the cold war between the US n Russia (whos got the biggest guns) mentality. The competition jumps from a Celtics competitor as the 2nd best team in the east to an all out powerhouse. Its not a fair game and wont be until Lebron falls off n retires.

This is why its a must that we delay any talks of competing for a championship any time soon and start building for 3-4 years down the road when this mess clears up n the NBA becomes anyones game again

[celticsclay]

I would have no problem trading the 2018 Nets pick, Zeller, Smart and Rozier for Butler. Draft Fultz. Trade Bradley for a future 1st. Sign Hayward. Re-Sign KO. Sign Jerebko using Room exception. Sign Amir to vet min


IT/Fultz
Butler/Brown
Hayward/Brown/Nader
Horford/Jerebko
KO/Amir/Zizic

I would. This team still can't compete with these Warriors and you may be giving up a number 1 pick in 2018, where it seems there are franchise-altering bigs.

So basically you want to kick the can down the road 5 or 6 years and hope to death you get lucky and that all this youth develops into superstars. I say the above team could compete with Cleveland and GSW. It might take those teams having an injury to beat them or maybe one of those teams has some below expected play...like Miami versus Dallas. But I would definitely give up a super young undeveloped teenager for Butler to try to win now and later.

I say it couldn't. I can reluctantly accept you can bring the Cavs into seven games in two years (slightly worse LeBron) if you can afford that after extending IT, but you can't compete with Curry, Klay, Draymond and Durant.

You are certainly not the only one think/feel this way, but I have to say I find it absolutely abhorrent.  It's the most defeatist, lame, noncompetitive mindset.  To just throw your hands up and say, "no mas", really bothers me as a fan. I can't condone this type of mindset, and I pray Danny Ainge doesn't think this way.

Personally, I'd prefer to trade for Paul George.  To me he's a better player than Jimmy Butler.  I think PG absolutely puts us in the conversation with Cleveland.  As for GSW, we'll see what happens with that team and what the roster looks like next year.  Their bench is getting older and it is going to put an enormous amount of pressure on the starters eventually.

I would absolutely not trade the 2017 #1 pick though.  I wouldn't trade that pick for anyone that would realistically be available.

Having an accurate appraisal of your team vs. the competition is an important part of Ainge's job. If he thinks making a deal for George or Butler will not improve the team enough to win a title, he won't make the deal since the asset cost will likely be great. You may have a rosier outlook than others about this team's potential in the near future, but that's an opinion. If others don't share the same opinion, why is it "defeatist"?

Golden State is being compared to the greatest teams in history. It's not a crazy opinion to think that there isn't any one move out there that can make us competitive with them, and we're not even competitive with the Cavs yet. How quickly we forget that they pasted us in the ECF.

Lets stop lumping Cleveland in with Golden State as some team we can't beat with another superstar. We are already witnessing the decline of Lebron this finals. He is still a great player, you can see his lateral speed is already declining slightly. This is only going to get faster. The rest of the Cavs players are starting to fossilize before our eyes.

Smith is completely cooked and they are on the hook for him for many more years.
Korver can't guard a chair and probably won't be back
Deron Williams is Done
Frye is 34
Jefferson will almost certainly retire

With their massive contract commitments to other players it will be tough for them to replace all of these guys (they will get a few vet mins that want to play with Lebron, but not 5-6). Worse still, not a single player on their team is projected to still be getting better. They have traded and cut so many first round picks and rookies the last few years (or spent roster spots on Lebron's entourage like James Jones), that they have no internal development happening. The beginning of the end for that core in Cleveland has already begun.

[mahcus smaht]

I would have no problem trading the 2018 Nets pick, Zeller, Smart and Rozier for Butler. Draft Fultz. Trade Bradley for a future 1st. Sign Hayward. Re-Sign KO. Sign Jerebko using Room exception. Sign Amir to vet min


IT/Fultz
Butler/Brown
Hayward/Brown/Nader
Horford/Jerebko
KO/Amir/Zizic

I would. This team still can't compete with these Warriors and you may be giving up a number 1 pick in 2018, where it seems there are franchise-altering bigs.

So basically you want to kick the can down the road 5 or 6 years and hope to death you get lucky and that all this youth develops into superstars. I say the above team could compete with Cleveland and GSW. It might take those teams having an injury to beat them or maybe one of those teams has some below expected play...like Miami versus Dallas. But I would definitely give up a super young undeveloped teenager for Butler to try to win now and later.

I say it couldn't. I can reluctantly accept you can bring the Cavs into seven games in two years (slightly worse LeBron) if you can afford that after extending IT, but you can't compete with Curry, Klay, Draymond and Durant.

You are certainly not the only one think/feel this way, but I have to say I find it absolutely abhorrent.  It's the most defeatist, lame, noncompetitive mindset.  To just throw your hands up and say, "no mas", really bothers me as a fan. I can't condone this type of mindset, and I pray Danny Ainge doesn't think this way.

Personally, I'd prefer to trade for Paul George.  To me he's a better player than Jimmy Butler.  I think PG absolutely puts us in the conversation with Cleveland.  As for GSW, we'll see what happens with that team and what the roster looks like next year.  Their bench is getting older and it is going to put an enormous amount of pressure on the starters eventually.

I would absolutely not trade the 2017 #1 pick though.  I wouldn't trade that pick for anyone that would realistically be available.

Having an accurate appraisal of your team vs. the competition is an important part of Ainge's job. If he thinks making a deal for George or Butler will not improve the team enough to win a title, he won't make the deal since the asset cost will likely be great. You may have a rosier outlook than others about this team's potential in the near future, but that's an opinion. If others don't share the same opinion, why is it "defeatist"?

Golden State is being compared to the greatest teams in history. It's not a crazy opinion to think that there isn't any one move out there that can make us competitive with them, and we're not even competitive with the Cavs yet. How quickly we forget that they pasted us in the ECF.

Lets stop lumping Cleveland in with Golden State as some team we can't beat with another superstar. We are already witnessing the decline of Lebron this finals. He is still a great player, you can see his lateral speed is already declining slightly. This is only going to get faster. The rest of the Cavs players are starting to fossilize before our eyes.

Smith is completely cooked and they are on the hook for him for many more years.
Korver can't guard a chair and probably won't be back
Deron Williams is Done
Frye is 34
Jefferson will almost certainly retire

With their massive contract commitments to other players it will be tough for them to replace all of these guys (they will get a few vet mins that want to play with Lebron, but not 5-6). Worse still, not a single player on their team is projected to still be getting better. They have traded and cut so many first round picks and rookies the last few years (or spent roster spots on Lebron's entourage like James Jones), that they have no internal development happening. The beginning of the end for that core in Cleveland has already begun.

I dont think the Cavs-Celtics gap is as big as it appeared in the ECF.

If we keep this gang together, add Fultz and maybe a cheapish big, we would naturally draw even with them in 2 years.

[Geo123]

The simple answer is yes for the right deal.  You have 2 dual purpose type players who can help change your team.  We'd be silly not to and Ainge isn't silly so.....

[Surferdad]

After watching these finals?

Not even sure George/Butler gets us to 6 or 7 against Cleveland, and Cleveland can't even hang with GoldenState

You'd be nutty to still want to trade the picks/brown for anyone older than 24 or so.

Only way id trade for Butler is if the Bulls would take Bradley, Crowder, Olynyk and Rozier and maybe the 2019 Clippers 1st round pick. Brooklyn picks and Brown out of the equation. Not worth it.

Build for the future. I dont care if we miss the playoffs the next few years cause in the long run, this team is better off waiting for Jaylen Brown, Markelle Fultz and the 018 pick develop.

I'd still take 10 years of dominance over a 3 or 4 year window.

IMO signing Al Horford handycapped us a bit. We bit the bullet on that one and i dont wanna see us biting anymore by trading good picks for aging stars such as PG13 or Butler

If Horford led to Durant, like it was rumored it might, we could very well be in the lead in the NBA finals right now.  Durant is that good to elevate us to that point, IMO.

While Horford may hamstring us a bit financially, he was an essential piece to the conference finals run, and will help lead us to 2-3 more conf finals runs, IMO, which will be excellent experience for Jaylen, Markelle, Smart and other young players who will be the core of our next champion.  And if GS blows up somehow or injuries derail Cle or GS, we have a chance next year to win it all (if we sign Hayward).

I agree with everything here. I did like the Al Horford signing at the time (IF) we nailed the Durant signing but that fell through. I also feel Horford was a big part of making it to the ECF. But to rely on the GSW blowing up or a major injury to a key part of the Cavs is a long shot. Lebron is just gonna have the Cavs go out and get a Carmelo Anthony or Westbrook type player. He may even have the Cavs beat us to Hayward just to get back to the Finals next year. The NBA is like the cold war between the US n Russia (whos got the biggest guns) mentality. The competition jumps from a Celtics competitor as the 2nd best team in the east to an all out powerhouse. Its not a fair game and wont be until Lebron falls off n retires.

This is why its a must that we delay any talks of competing for a championship any time soon and start building for 3-4 years down the road when this mess clears up n the NBA becomes anyones game again

Just so there's no revisionist history expounded, I have highlighted in red glow what was supposed to happen.  The Celtics lost the Durant sweepstakes (but came close with a meeting) and that led directly to where the team is now.  If you forget this, you might be tempted to criticize Horford or his contract.  That's not fair given the actual history.

[clevelandceltic]

Im not in favor of trading for either at this point. Individually I dont think either put you in a position to really win next year. Second, a trade for either requires contracts going back so who are you trading Bradley and who? You will have to trade a number of players to acquire both from a salary standpoint. Lastly, Im not sure I would commit 120 million to IT, Butler, PG, and Horford. You are looking at a payroll of at least 140 million with that team not to mention the tax bill associated with this. I really dont see any of those players being close in talent to the top 2 players on the Warriors. I have a hard time committing to this team.

I have a hard time finding value in trying to trade for either player knowing that it will be hard to win given the current landscape and the assets you likely give up.

[mctyson]

I would have no problem trading the 2018 Nets pick, Zeller, Smart and Rozier for Butler. Draft Fultz. Trade Bradley for a future 1st. Sign Hayward. Re-Sign KO. Sign Jerebko using Room exception. Sign Amir to vet min


IT/Fultz
Butler/Brown
Hayward/Brown/Nader
Horford/Jerebko
KO/Amir/Zizic

I would. This team still can't compete with these Warriors and you may be giving up a number 1 pick in 2018, where it seems there are franchise-altering bigs.

I would too. 

Where is Crowder on this team?

[Darío SpanishFan]

I would have no problem trading the 2018 Nets pick, Zeller, Smart and Rozier for Butler. Draft Fultz. Trade Bradley for a future 1st. Sign Hayward. Re-Sign KO. Sign Jerebko using Room exception. Sign Amir to vet min


IT/Fultz
Butler/Brown
Hayward/Brown/Nader
Horford/Jerebko
KO/Amir/Zizic

I would. This team still can't compete with these Warriors and you may be giving up a number 1 pick in 2018, where it seems there are franchise-altering bigs.

So basically you want to kick the can down the road 5 or 6 years and hope to death you get lucky and that all this youth develops into superstars. I say the above team could compete with Cleveland and GSW. It might take those teams having an injury to beat them or maybe one of those teams has some below expected play...like Miami versus Dallas. But I would definitely give up a super young undeveloped teenager for Butler to try to win now and later.

I say it couldn't. I can reluctantly accept you can bring the Cavs into seven games in two years (slightly worse LeBron) if you can afford that after extending IT, but you can't compete with Curry, Klay, Draymond and Durant.

You are certainly not the only one think/feel this way, but I have to say I find it absolutely abhorrent.  It's the most defeatist, lame, noncompetitive mindset.  To just throw your hands up and say, "no mas", really bothers me as a fan. I can't condone this type of mindset, and I pray Danny Ainge doesn't think this way.

I understand that, of course. But as a GM (if we were, obviously), you have to keep your mind cold and analyze the situation to keep your assets if winning a title is almost impossible against the Warriors.

[obnoxiousmime]

I would have no problem trading the 2018 Nets pick, Zeller, Smart and Rozier for Butler. Draft Fultz. Trade Bradley for a future 1st. Sign Hayward. Re-Sign KO. Sign Jerebko using Room exception. Sign Amir to vet min


IT/Fultz
Butler/Brown
Hayward/Brown/Nader
Horford/Jerebko
KO/Amir/Zizic

I would. This team still can't compete with these Warriors and you may be giving up a number 1 pick in 2018, where it seems there are franchise-altering bigs.

So basically you want to kick the can down the road 5 or 6 years and hope to death you get lucky and that all this youth develops into superstars. I say the above team could compete with Cleveland and GSW. It might take those teams having an injury to beat them or maybe one of those teams has some below expected play...like Miami versus Dallas. But I would definitely give up a super young undeveloped teenager for Butler to try to win now and later.

I say it couldn't. I can reluctantly accept you can bring the Cavs into seven games in two years (slightly worse LeBron) if you can afford that after extending IT, but you can't compete with Curry, Klay, Draymond and Durant.

You are certainly not the only one think/feel this way, but I have to say I find it absolutely abhorrent.  It's the most defeatist, lame, noncompetitive mindset.  To just throw your hands up and say, "no mas", really bothers me as a fan. I can't condone this type of mindset, and I pray Danny Ainge doesn't think this way.

Personally, I'd prefer to trade for Paul George.  To me he's a better player than Jimmy Butler.  I think PG absolutely puts us in the conversation with Cleveland.  As for GSW, we'll see what happens with that team and what the roster looks like next year.  Their bench is getting older and it is going to put an enormous amount of pressure on the starters eventually.

I would absolutely not trade the 2017 #1 pick though.  I wouldn't trade that pick for anyone that would realistically be available.

Having an accurate appraisal of your team vs. the competition is an important part of Ainge's job. If he thinks making a deal for George or Butler will not improve the team enough to win a title, he won't make the deal since the asset cost will likely be great. You may have a rosier outlook than others about this team's potential in the near future, but that's an opinion. If others don't share the same opinion, why is it "defeatist"?

Golden State is being compared to the greatest teams in history. It's not a crazy opinion to think that there isn't any one move out there that can make us competitive with them, and we're not even competitive with the Cavs yet. How quickly we forget that they pasted us in the ECF.

Lets stop lumping Cleveland in with Golden State as some team we can't beat with another superstar. We are already witnessing the decline of Lebron this finals. He is still a great player, you can see his lateral speed is already declining slightly. This is only going to get faster. The rest of the Cavs players are starting to fossilize before our eyes.

Smith is completely cooked and they are on the hook for him for many more years.
Korver can't guard a chair and probably won't be back
Deron Williams is Done
Frye is 34
Jefferson will almost certainly retire

With their massive contract commitments to other players it will be tough for them to replace all of these guys (they will get a few vet mins that want to play with Lebron, but not 5-6). Worse still, not a single player on their team is projected to still be getting better. They have traded and cut so many first round picks and rookies the last few years (or spent roster spots on Lebron's entourage like James Jones), that they have no internal development happening. The beginning of the end for that core in Cleveland has already begun.

I agree, but this Warriors team is good enough on O and D to exhaust him. We aren't good enough in both categories to make exhaustion a factor. Anyway even though I think it could be a sign LeBron will decline quicker than first thought, it still is a little too convenient for everyone to watch him in the GS series and forget that he totally whupped our butts only a week and a half ago. Everybody on the board is now wondering how we match up against the Warriors and nobody is mentioning Cleveland anymore.

It's true that Cleveland has few assets but trading Love could be a good move. Usually you wouldn't trade for a "lesser" player but the problem is if Thompson and Love can't play together against GS then that makes one of them pretty much worthless. This team's sole purpose is to beat the Warriors in the Finals so they have to make moves based on that matchup.

Love is still 28 until this September, so he's not old. I haven't thought about what's out there but it'll be interesting to see what happens in the offseason.

[Ilikesports17]

After watching these finals?

Not even sure George/Butler gets us to 6 or 7 against Cleveland, and Cleveland can't even hang with GoldenState

You'd be nutty to still want to trade the picks/brown for anyone older than 24 or so.

Only way id trade for Butler is if the Bulls would take Bradley, Crowder, Olynyk and Rozier and maybe the 2019 Clippers 1st round pick. Brooklyn picks and Brown out of the equation. Not worth it.

Build for the future. I dont care if we miss the playoffs the next few years cause in the long run, this team is better off waiting for Jaylen Brown, Markelle Fultz and the 018 pick develop.

I'd still take 10 years of dominance over a 3 or 4 year window.

IMO signing Al Horford handycapped us a bit. We bit the bullet on that one and i dont wanna see us biting anymore by trading good picks for aging stars such as PG13 or Butler

If Horford led to Durant, like it was rumored it might, we could very well be in the lead in the NBA finals right now.  Durant is that good to elevate us to that point, IMO.

While Horford may hamstring us a bit financially, he was an essential piece to the conference finals run, and will help lead us to 2-3 more conf finals runs, IMO, which will be excellent experience for Jaylen, Markelle, Smart and other young players who will be the core of our next champion.  And if GS blows up somehow or injuries derail Cle or GS, we have a chance next year to win it all (if we sign Hayward).

I agree with everything here. I did like the Al Horford signing at the time (IF) we nailed the Durant signing but that fell through. I also feel Horford was a big part of making it to the ECF. But to rely on the GSW blowing up or a major injury to a key part of the Cavs is a long shot. Lebron is just gonna have the Cavs go out and get a Carmelo Anthony or Westbrook type player. He may even have the Cavs beat us to Hayward just to get back to the Finals next year. The NBA is like the cold war between the US n Russia (whos got the biggest guns) mentality. The competition jumps from a Celtics competitor as the 2nd best team in the east to an all out powerhouse. Its not a fair game and wont be until Lebron falls off n retires.

This is why its a must that we delay any talks of competing for a championship any time soon and start building for 3-4 years down the road when this mess clears up n the NBA becomes anyones game again

Just so there's no revisionist history expounded, I have highlighted in red glow what was supposed to happen.  The Celtics lost the Durant sweepstakes (but came close with a meeting) and that led directly to where the team is now.  If you forget this, you might be tempted to criticize Horford or his contract.  That's not fair given the actual history.

I really think we sign Al to that deal even if we didnt have KD meeting.

[Granath]

I just wonder where the "win now" brigade went. You know, the ones who were screaming at Danny for not getting Butler before the draft last year for the 2016 pick plus Bradley and those who were whining about not dealing the 2017 Brooklyn pick for him at the deadline. It seemed like about half this forum wanted Danny's blood for not making those deals.

Now where did those guys go?

[Surferdad]

I just wonder where the "win now" brigade went. You know, the ones who were screaming at Danny for not getting Butler before the draft last year for the 2016 pick plus Bradley and those who were whining about not dealing the 2017 Brooklyn pick for him at the deadline. It seemed like about half this forum wanted Danny's blood for not making those deals.

Now where did those guys go?

At the time, we didn't know it would be the #1 pick, and since it has never happened in Celtics history, it probably didn't seem too likely to many.  Easy to criticize in retrospect. 

I readily admit I was wrong to be disappointed about not getting Ibaka and Tucker.  However, I still would have done the Rozier+pick-for-Noel deal.  Now Dallas can offer more than anyone, and probably will.  That could have been us.

Good thing none of us are in Danny's place!

[Celtics4ever]

I readily admit I was wrong to be disappointed about not getting Ibaka and Tucker

I think in the short term, they would have improved the team and hurt us long term in terms of cap.   Even detractors would have a hard time denying that but in the end DA was right.   I saw subtle clues where DA alluded that we could win now hidden by the I believe in miracles statement.

just wonder where the "win now" brigade went. You know, the ones who were screaming at Danny for not getting Butler before the draft last year for the 2016 pick plus Bradley and those who were whining about not dealing the 2017 Brooklyn pick for him at the deadline. It seemed like about half this forum wanted Danny's blood for not making those deals.

Now where did those guys go?

Holy Gloating, Batman.   

[jade88]

Yep. I'd be much happier watching Paul George than a developing Fultz.

[Granath]

I just wonder where the "win now" brigade went. You know, the ones who were screaming at Danny for not getting Butler before the draft last year for the 2016 pick plus Bradley and those who were whining about not dealing the 2017 Brooklyn pick for him at the deadline. It seemed like about half this forum wanted Danny's blood for not making those deals.

Now where did those guys go?

At the time, we didn't know it would be the #1 pick, and since it has never happened in Celtics history, it probably didn't seem too likely to many.  Easy to criticize in retrospect. 

I readily admit I was wrong to be disappointed about not getting Ibaka and Tucker.  However, I still would have done the Rozier+pick-for-Noel deal.  Now Dallas can offer more than anyone, and probably will.  That could have been us.

Good thing none of us are in Danny's place!

No retrospect is needed. I haven't been entirely unwilling to trade it but I have been consistent that the deal had to be right and someone was going to have to overpay to get it. By the time the trade deadline came around we had a high degree of confidence that that pick would be no worse than 3rd-4th even after they drew the ping-pong balls with a good chance at the #1 overall selection in what appears to be a strong draft. I couldn't understand then, and I still don't understand now, why some folks seemed so eager to give it away. Yeah, I have no problem needling those who seem(ed) to think that a get-rich-quick-scheme was the best way to go. It's interesting how scarce some of those guys *cough Dumbo cough* have been around here ever since we made the ECF.

PS - I would have also given up Rozier for Noel. I don't understand Danny not making that move unless he knows something about Noel's health, character or he resignability that we do not.