What is Zicic's floor and ceiling?

[oldtype]

Been trying to think of a good non-Euro comp for Zizic, and after haphazardly running some numbers I've landed on Greg Monroe.

- Basically same physical dimensions when drafted
Zizic: 6"11, 249lbs, 7"2 wingspan, 9"3 standing reach
Monroe: 6"11, 247 lbs, 7"2 wingspan, 9"0 standing reach

- Both very good rebounders, just shy of elite

- Both mostly interior scorers who may have a bit of a midrange game

- Neither are particularly good rim protectors

Zizic probably has a higher motor and slightly quicker feet. There's no indication that Zizic will ever develop anything like Monroe's passing ability, but he seems to be a similarly high BBIQ player so I guess it's not out of the question.

[moiso]

Monroe's motor is one of my favorite things about him.  He really competes.

[obnoxiousmime]

FWIW, I thought I'd re-link the "Top ten 2016 rookies so far in terms of potential" article from ESPN Insider that came out in April, in which Pelton and Ford both had Zizic at #5. In case anyone hasn't read it, it shows that the recent nice press Zizic has gotten isn't just isolated, local news/homer hype.


http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/19058283/ranking-top-10-rookies-2016-draftees-future-potential-nba

The part that mentions Zizic:

Pelton: 5. Ante Zizic, Boston Celtics

Interesting choice. I'll follow suit by looking outside the NBA.

I'm going with the other first-rounder the Celtics stashed, No. 23 pick Zizic, who has split time between KK Cibona in his native Croatia and Darussafaka in Turkey. Between the two stops, Zizic has averaged 20.5 points and 10.0 rebounds per 36 minutes on 67 percent shooting. Just 20, Zizic could be part of Boston's rotation next season when he's scheduled to join the team.

In the longer term, he could follow in the footsteps of Nikola Jokic and Jusuf Nurkic as centers who have translated success in the Adriatic League to the NBA.

Ford: 5. Ante Zizic, Boston Celtics

I debated between Yabusele and Zizic and I know the Celtics are very high on both, as are NBA scouts for some other teams. His size, strength, toughness and skill set make Zizic a big man to watch for the Celtics' future.

If Jaylen Brown improves, the Celtics will have had a heck of a draft. And who would've thought Brown might be their third-best prospect from 2016?

KP, who are your second five?

[oldtype]

Monroe's motor is one of my favorite things about him.  He really competes.

I've always thought of him as a bit plodding but maybe that's just my prejudices at work.  It may even be accurate to say that Zizic's ceiling in his early years will be a young Greg Monroe minus the passing.

[moiso]

Monroe's motor is one of my favorite things about him.  He really competes.

I've always thought of him as a bit plodding but maybe that's just my prejudices at work.  It may even be accurate to say that Zizic's ceiling in his early years will be a young Greg Monroe minus the passing.

Monroe can play like a lunatic.  I like the Monroe minus the passing one better.  Seems pretty accurate and I'd be happy with that.

[max215]

On a a related note, the Z-train is coming and you better believe it!

“July 1 just has to roll over on the calendar, and we’ll sign him,” [Austin] Ainge said. “He wants to be here, and we want him here.”

And from the same article, more relevant to the topic at hand:

Blatt said Zizic reminds him of Oklahoma City Thunder big man Steven Adams, adding that his work ethic would allow him to accomplish more than many imagined.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2017/03/13/celtics-draftee-ante-zizic-asserts-ready-for-nba/L5LEyaJtBIGLjEuxTxnenI/story.html

Adams is probably the most logical comp, although Ante likely has a ways to go until he can match Adams on defense.

Probably. Although in the Brad S version of high school defense that we're trotting out right now he will likely be no worse than other bigs in the overall team "scheme". I anticipate that he'll have a bit of a harder time challenging shots (he's not a leaper, and he'll have to face a lot higher release points in the NBA), but this is something that can be compensated with positioning and anticipation.

I'm super pumped about having him next season, I think he'll be useful right away, and if he pans out he can start for us for a long time.

I haven't seen you this excited about anything since...ever. I largely agree, though, Zizic just brings so much of what we've lacked the last couple years. When we've needed a physical presence against traditional bigs, we've had to turn to Tyler Zeller, but now we'll have a real, bruising big.

[Beat LA]

FWIW, I thought I'd re-link the "Top ten 2016 rookies so far in terms of potential" article from ESPN Insider that came out in April, in which Pelton and Ford both had Zizic at #5. In case anyone hasn't read it, it shows that the recent nice press Zizic has gotten isn't just isolated, local news/homer hype.


http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/19058283/ranking-top-10-rookies-2016-draftees-future-potential-nba

The part that mentions Zizic:

Pelton: 5. Ante Zizic, Boston Celtics

Interesting choice. I'll follow suit by looking outside the NBA.

I'm going with the other first-rounder the Celtics stashed, No. 23 pick Zizic, who has split time between KK Cibona in his native Croatia and Darussafaka in Turkey. Between the two stops, Zizic has averaged 20.5 points and 10.0 rebounds per 36 minutes on 67 percent shooting. Just 20, Zizic could be part of Boston's rotation next season when he's scheduled to join the team.

In the longer term, he could follow in the footsteps of Nikola Jokic and Jusuf Nurkic as centers who have translated success in the Adriatic League to the NBA.

Ford: 5. Ante Zizic, Boston Celtics

I debated between Yabusele and Zizic and I know the Celtics are very high on both, as are NBA scouts for some other teams. His size, strength, toughness and skill set make Zizic a big man to watch for the Celtics' future.

If Jaylen Brown improves, the Celtics will have had a heck of a draft. And who would've thought Brown might be their third-best prospect from 2016?

KP, who are your second five?

Pun intended?

[Beat LA]

Offensive rebounding takes a certain mindset not necessarily vertical ability,it takes the willingness to absorb a pounding and awareness of angles.
Zizic is only 20 and offensive rebounding one of his strengths in a mans league.
The Eastern Europeans do put out some tough ,hungry big men.
David Blatt has used Zizic as an example of a tough young kid at 16 that kept getting up after being knocked down by the best older experienced big man star.
.Blatt knew he was special then.

Makes sense.  Historically, there have always been a lot of hungry people in Eastern Europe (sarcasm) .

I could see him being a Gortat at the very best, but I have tempered expectations.  2nd round stashes tend to not amount to much, so obviously his floor would be bench-warmer.

If he can reach that Gortat potential though, it would be yuuuuge for the Celtics

Luckily he isn't a second round stash.

Heh, I completely forgot that he was drafted in the 20's of round 1.  Still, my point remains; guys drafted outside of the lottery are pretty prone to hardly ever showing up.  I don't think it is unfair to say that his floor is to be a complete nonfactor

So what do you think about the multiple reports suggesting he'd be ~10 if he had entered the draft this year?

In this draft? No way.  That sounds like propaganda to me.

Kieth smith and Kevin O'Connor have said it.

Also he was seen as a bit of a steal at #23 last year and has certainly upped his stock substantially this year

No idea who Kieth Smith is, and while I do enjoy his draft guide even if I don't always agree with his assessments, isn't Kevin really just a glorified blogger?  I'm not knocking him or anything, as it's great to see what he's accomplished, but last time I checked he wasn't a scout.

[Ilikesports17]

Offensive rebounding takes a certain mindset not necessarily vertical ability,it takes the willingness to absorb a pounding and awareness of angles.
Zizic is only 20 and offensive rebounding one of his strengths in a mans league.
The Eastern Europeans do put out some tough ,hungry big men.
David Blatt has used Zizic as an example of a tough young kid at 16 that kept getting up after being knocked down by the best older experienced big man star.
.Blatt knew he was special then.

Makes sense.  Historically, there have always been a lot of hungry people in Eastern Europe (sarcasm) .

I could see him being a Gortat at the very best, but I have tempered expectations.  2nd round stashes tend to not amount to much, so obviously his floor would be bench-warmer.

If he can reach that Gortat potential though, it would be yuuuuge for the Celtics

Luckily he isn't a second round stash.

Heh, I completely forgot that he was drafted in the 20's of round 1.  Still, my point remains; guys drafted outside of the lottery are pretty prone to hardly ever showing up.  I don't think it is unfair to say that his floor is to be a complete nonfactor

So what do you think about the multiple reports suggesting he'd be ~10 if he had entered the draft this year?

In this draft? No way.  That sounds like propaganda to me.

Kieth smith and Kevin O'Connor have said it.

Also he was seen as a bit of a steal at #23 last year and has certainly upped his stock substantially this year

No idea who Kieth Smith is, and while I do enjoy his draft guide even if I don't always agree with his assessments, isn't Kevin really just a glorified blogger?  I'm not knocking him or anything, as it's great to see what he's accomplished, but last time I checked he wasn't a scout.

You can google their resumes for yourself.

And if you can find more credible reporters putting Zizic later in this first round I'd love to see it

[Beat LA]

Offensive rebounding takes a certain mindset not necessarily vertical ability,it takes the willingness to absorb a pounding and awareness of angles.
Zizic is only 20 and offensive rebounding one of his strengths in a mans league.
The Eastern Europeans do put out some tough ,hungry big men.
David Blatt has used Zizic as an example of a tough young kid at 16 that kept getting up after being knocked down by the best older experienced big man star.
.Blatt knew he was special then.

Makes sense.  Historically, there have always been a lot of hungry people in Eastern Europe (sarcasm) .

I could see him being a Gortat at the very best, but I have tempered expectations.  2nd round stashes tend to not amount to much, so obviously his floor would be bench-warmer.

If he can reach that Gortat potential though, it would be yuuuuge for the Celtics

Luckily he isn't a second round stash.

Heh, I completely forgot that he was drafted in the 20's of round 1.  Still, my point remains; guys drafted outside of the lottery are pretty prone to hardly ever showing up.  I don't think it is unfair to say that his floor is to be a complete nonfactor

So what do you think about the multiple reports suggesting he'd be ~10 if he had entered the draft this year?

In this draft? No way.  That sounds like propaganda to me.

Kieth smith and Kevin O'Connor have said it.

Also he was seen as a bit of a steal at #23 last year and has certainly upped his stock substantially this year

No idea who Kieth Smith is, and while I do enjoy his draft guide even if I don't always agree with his assessments, isn't Kevin really just a glorified blogger?  I'm not knocking him or anything, as it's great to see what he's accomplished, but last time I checked he wasn't a scout.

You can google their resumes for yourself.

And if you can find more credible reporters putting Zizic later in this first round I'd love to see it

So they're both bloggers.  Woo .  If you can find more credible reporters putting Zizic at 10 or so I'd love to see it .  He just doesn't do anything for me , but I'm missing something, as usual .

[IDreamCeltics]

Offensive rebounding takes a certain mindset not necessarily vertical ability,it takes the willingness to absorb a pounding and awareness of angles.
Zizic is only 20 and offensive rebounding one of his strengths in a mans league.
The Eastern Europeans do put out some tough ,hungry big men.
David Blatt has used Zizic as an example of a tough young kid at 16 that kept getting up after being knocked down by the best older experienced big man star.
.Blatt knew he was special then.

Makes sense.  Historically, there have always been a lot of hungry people in Eastern Europe (sarcasm) .

I could see him being a Gortat at the very best, but I have tempered expectations.  2nd round stashes tend to not amount to much, so obviously his floor would be bench-warmer.

If he can reach that Gortat potential though, it would be yuuuuge for the Celtics

Luckily he isn't a second round stash.

Heh, I completely forgot that he was drafted in the 20's of round 1.  Still, my point remains; guys drafted outside of the lottery are pretty prone to hardly ever showing up.  I don't think it is unfair to say that his floor is to be a complete nonfactor

So what do you think about the multiple reports suggesting he'd be ~10 if he had entered the draft this year?

In this draft? No way.  That sounds like propaganda to me.

Kieth smith and Kevin O'Connor have said it.

Also he was seen as a bit of a steal at #23 last year and has certainly upped his stock substantially this year

No idea who Kieth Smith is, and while I do enjoy his draft guide even if I don't always agree with his assessments, isn't Kevin really just a glorified blogger?  I'm not knocking him or anything, as it's great to see what he's accomplished, but last time I checked he wasn't a scout.

You can google their resumes for yourself.

And if you can find more credible reporters putting Zizic later in this first round I'd love to see it

So they're both bloggers.  Woo .  If you can find more credible reporters putting Zizic at 10 or so I'd love to see it .  He just doesn't do anything for me , but I'm missing something, as usual .

20 Year old non-shooting/non-rim-protector from a league where Colton Iverson is his stiffest competition?  Wasted pick. 

The idea that he would have top 10 potential in this draft is definitely a drug-induced hallucination.  If he was worth the 5th pick in this draft that would be someone like Malik Monk/Josh Jackson/Dearron Fox/ J Smith/or Jayson Tatum... It's laughable to think Zizic (who would have slipped to the second round last year if not for the Celtics) is in that class.

Ainge and the Celtics pulled a Stan Van Gunday and panicked during last years draft.  They got nothing out of the multiple picks they had after the lottery.  It's too bad because they threw away a ton of value, but the sooner they accept it and move on from their mistakes the better off we'll all be.  YES they reached for Zizic and Yabusele and took both of them a round too high, YES they could have traded those first round picks for more value, but they're stuck with the decisions they made and now should just cut their losses and look to acquire help via trade.     

[RockinRyA]

Offensive rebounding takes a certain mindset not necessarily vertical ability,it takes the willingness to absorb a pounding and awareness of angles.
Zizic is only 20 and offensive rebounding one of his strengths in a mans league.
The Eastern Europeans do put out some tough ,hungry big men.
David Blatt has used Zizic as an example of a tough young kid at 16 that kept getting up after being knocked down by the best older experienced big man star.
.Blatt knew he was special then.

Makes sense.  Historically, there have always been a lot of hungry people in Eastern Europe (sarcasm) .

I could see him being a Gortat at the very best, but I have tempered expectations.  2nd round stashes tend to not amount to much, so obviously his floor would be bench-warmer.

If he can reach that Gortat potential though, it would be yuuuuge for the Celtics

Luckily he isn't a second round stash.

Heh, I completely forgot that he was drafted in the 20's of round 1.  Still, my point remains; guys drafted outside of the lottery are pretty prone to hardly ever showing up.  I don't think it is unfair to say that his floor is to be a complete nonfactor

So what do you think about the multiple reports suggesting he'd be ~10 if he had entered the draft this year?

In this draft? No way.  That sounds like propaganda to me.

Kieth smith and Kevin O'Connor have said it.

Also he was seen as a bit of a steal at #23 last year and has certainly upped his stock substantially this year

No idea who Kieth Smith is, and while I do enjoy his draft guide even if I don't always agree with his assessments, isn't Kevin really just a glorified blogger?  I'm not knocking him or anything, as it's great to see what he's accomplished, but last time I checked he wasn't a scout.

You can google their resumes for yourself.

And if you can find more credible reporters putting Zizic later in this first round I'd love to see it

So they're both bloggers.  Woo .  If you can find more credible reporters putting Zizic at 10 or so I'd love to see it .  He just doesn't do anything for me , but I'm missing something, as usual .

Way to stomp at the hardwork people go through just because they are "bloggers"

[footey]

Offensive rebounding takes a certain mindset not necessarily vertical ability,it takes the willingness to absorb a pounding and awareness of angles.
Zizic is only 20 and offensive rebounding one of his strengths in a mans league.
The Eastern Europeans do put out some tough ,hungry big men.
David Blatt has used Zizic as an example of a tough young kid at 16 that kept getting up after being knocked down by the best older experienced big man star.
.Blatt knew he was special then.

Makes sense.  Historically, there have always been a lot of hungry people in Eastern Europe (sarcasm) .

I could see him being a Gortat at the very best, but I have tempered expectations.  2nd round stashes tend to not amount to much, so obviously his floor would be bench-warmer.

If he can reach that Gortat potential though, it would be yuuuuge for the Celtics

Luckily he isn't a second round stash.

Heh, I completely forgot that he was drafted in the 20's of round 1.  Still, my point remains; guys drafted outside of the lottery are pretty prone to hardly ever showing up.  I don't think it is unfair to say that his floor is to be a complete nonfactor

So what do you think about the multiple reports suggesting he'd be ~10 if he had entered the draft this year?

In this draft? No way.  That sounds like propaganda to me.

Kieth smith and Kevin O'Connor have said it.

Also he was seen as a bit of a steal at #23 last year and has certainly upped his stock substantially this year

No idea who Kieth Smith is, and while I do enjoy his draft guide even if I don't always agree with his assessments, isn't Kevin really just a glorified blogger?  I'm not knocking him or anything, as it's great to see what he's accomplished, but last time I checked he wasn't a scout.

You can google their resumes for yourself.

And if you can find more credible reporters putting Zizic later in this first round I'd love to see it

So they're both bloggers.  Woo .  If you can find more credible reporters putting Zizic at 10 or so I'd love to see it .  He just doesn't do anything for me , but I'm missing something, as usual .

That's okay. He's still smarting from his prediction that Jaylen Brown was a lousy pick. So when Zizic proves him wrong, he'll clam up about him just like he did about Jaylen.

 

[Surferdad]

Offensive rebounding takes a certain mindset not necessarily vertical ability,it takes the willingness to absorb a pounding and awareness of angles.
Zizic is only 20 and offensive rebounding one of his strengths in a mans league.
The Eastern Europeans do put out some tough ,hungry big men.
David Blatt has used Zizic as an example of a tough young kid at 16 that kept getting up after being knocked down by the best older experienced big man star.
.Blatt knew he was special then.

Makes sense.  Historically, there have always been a lot of hungry people in Eastern Europe (sarcasm) .

I could see him being a Gortat at the very best, but I have tempered expectations.  2nd round stashes tend to not amount to much, so obviously his floor would be bench-warmer.

If he can reach that Gortat potential though, it would be yuuuuge for the Celtics

Luckily he isn't a second round stash.

Heh, I completely forgot that he was drafted in the 20's of round 1.  Still, my point remains; guys drafted outside of the lottery are pretty prone to hardly ever showing up.  I don't think it is unfair to say that his floor is to be a complete nonfactor

So what do you think about the multiple reports suggesting he'd be ~10 if he had entered the draft this year?

In this draft? No way.  That sounds like propaganda to me.

Kieth smith and Kevin O'Connor have said it.

Also he was seen as a bit of a steal at #23 last year and has certainly upped his stock substantially this year

No idea who Kieth Smith is, and while I do enjoy his draft guide even if I don't always agree with his assessments, isn't Kevin really just a glorified blogger?  I'm not knocking him or anything, as it's great to see what he's accomplished, but last time I checked he wasn't a scout.

You can google their resumes for yourself.

And if you can find more credible reporters putting Zizic later in this first round I'd love to see it

So they're both bloggers.  Woo .  If you can find more credible reporters putting Zizic at 10 or so I'd love to see it .  He just doesn't do anything for me , but I'm missing something, as usual .

20 Year old non-shooting/non-rim-protector from a league where Colton Iverson is his stiffest competition?  Wasted pick. 

The idea that he would have top 10 potential in this draft is definitely a drug-induced hallucination.  If he was worth the 5th pick in this draft that would be someone like Malik Monk/Josh Jackson/Dearron Fox/ J Smith/or Jayson Tatum... It's laughable to think Zizic (who would have slipped to the second round last year if not for the Celtics) is in that class.

Ainge and the Celtics pulled a Stan Van Gunday and panicked during last years draft.  They got nothing out of the multiple picks they had after the lottery.  It's too bad because they threw away a ton of value, but the sooner they accept it and move on from their mistakes the better off we'll all be.  YES they reached for Zizic and Yabusele and took both of them a round too high, YES they could have traded those first round picks for more value, but they're stuck with the decisions they made and now should just cut their losses and look to acquire help via trade.   

My question is where would he go in the 2018 draft.  That's the one with interesting big men.

[BitterJim]

Offensive rebounding takes a certain mindset not necessarily vertical ability,it takes the willingness to absorb a pounding and awareness of angles.
Zizic is only 20 and offensive rebounding one of his strengths in a mans league.
The Eastern Europeans do put out some tough ,hungry big men.
David Blatt has used Zizic as an example of a tough young kid at 16 that kept getting up after being knocked down by the best older experienced big man star.
.Blatt knew he was special then.

Makes sense.  Historically, there have always been a lot of hungry people in Eastern Europe (sarcasm) .

I could see him being a Gortat at the very best, but I have tempered expectations.  2nd round stashes tend to not amount to much, so obviously his floor would be bench-warmer.

If he can reach that Gortat potential though, it would be yuuuuge for the Celtics

Luckily he isn't a second round stash.

Heh, I completely forgot that he was drafted in the 20's of round 1.  Still, my point remains; guys drafted outside of the lottery are pretty prone to hardly ever showing up.  I don't think it is unfair to say that his floor is to be a complete nonfactor

So what do you think about the multiple reports suggesting he'd be ~10 if he had entered the draft this year?

In this draft? No way.  That sounds like propaganda to me.

Kieth smith and Kevin O'Connor have said it.

Also he was seen as a bit of a steal at #23 last year and has certainly upped his stock substantially this year

No idea who Kieth Smith is, and while I do enjoy his draft guide even if I don't always agree with his assessments, isn't Kevin really just a glorified blogger?  I'm not knocking him or anything, as it's great to see what he's accomplished, but last time I checked he wasn't a scout.

You can google their resumes for yourself.

And if you can find more credible reporters putting Zizic later in this first round I'd love to see it

So they're both bloggers.  Woo .  If you can find more credible reporters putting Zizic at 10 or so I'd love to see it .  He just doesn't do anything for me , but I'm missing something, as usual .

20 Year old non-shooting/non-rim-protector from a league where Colton Iverson is his stiffest competition?  Wasted pick. 

The idea that he would have top 10 potential in this draft is definitely a drug-induced hallucination.  If he was worth the 5th pick in this draft that would be someone like Malik Monk/Josh Jackson/Dearron Fox/ J Smith/or Jayson Tatum... It's laughable to think Zizic (who would have slipped to the second round last year if not for the Celtics) is in that class.

Ainge and the Celtics pulled a Stan Van Gunday and panicked during last years draft.  They got nothing out of the multiple picks they had after the lottery.  It's too bad because they threw away a ton of value, but the sooner they accept it and move on from their mistakes the better off we'll all be.  YES they reached for Zizic and Yabusele and took both of them a round too high, YES they could have traded those first round picks for more value, but they're stuck with the decisions they made and now should just cut their losses and look to acquire help via trade.   

Do you have any sources to back up the bolded statements, or is it all just baseless speculation?

There's nothing to suggest that the Celtics "panicked" or that Zizic would have slipped to the second round if the Cs hadn't taken them (of course, some mock drafts may say that, but they were pretty much all wrong about everything after pick 9 or so, so they probably aren't the best source of insight into last year's draft).  I haven't seen anything suggesting that we could have traded up using those picks (no, 16+23 would not have beaten what the Suns traded to the Kings for Chriss, nor would 16+Rozier have been enough for Ibaka)